Did Paul invent or hijack Christianity?

Madison Ruppert ^ | 06/24/2014

[editor-surveyor]

“Bums” is much like you, in refusing the plain language of scripture, in favor of the words of deceiving nicolaitans.

The only difference between you and her is which nicolaitans to believe over the plain words of scripture.
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[editor-surveyor]

>> "Editor is influenced by notions derived from the priestly order of Aaron the plain writings of the apostles." <<

Can't imagine where your ideas come from, but certainly not from the plain scriptures.

[Springfield Reformer]

LOL! So just grovel and accept the fallible dictates of an anonymous poster? Like Any Griffith used to say, “you’re somethin’ else, you know that?” But no, I have looked at it very closely. Transubstantiation is sophistry on steroids, a late development unheard of in the apostolic age. No physical miracle of God was ever beyond sensory verification. What would be the point? But no, rather than acquiesce to the blaziingly clear use of metaphor in John 6 to describe faith in the crucified Christ, instead transubstantiation prepares the mind to live in a state of perpetual deception. This is antithetical to God’s own holy nature, Who cannot lie, and does not EVER invite us to believe a lie, not even in the name of faith.

[dsc]

“LOL! So just grovel and accept the fallible dictates of an anonymous poster?”

Your use of the words “grovel” and “dictates” show that you have some kind of emotional issue that is clouding your judgment. Too much work for me to take on. (And yes, I am qualified to say that.)

“Transubstantiation is sophistry on steroids, a late development unheard of in the apostolic age.”

Nonsense.

“No physical miracle of God was ever beyond sensory verification.”

Nor is transubstantiation. It must be noted, though, that many miracles were—and are—widely disbelieved.

“But no, rather than acquiesce to the blaziingly clear use of metaphor in John 6 to describe faith in the crucified Christ”

I specifically asked you to spare me whatever mental gymnastics you used to square your denial of scripture with your desire to be a Christian.

[dsc]

Here’s some plain language of scripture.

26:26. And whilst they were at supper, Jesus took bread and blessed and broke and gave to his disciples and said: Take ye and eat. This is my body.

This is my body…He does not say, This is the figure of my body—but This is my body. (2 Council of Nice, Act. 6.) Neither does he say in this, or with this is my body; but absolutely, This is my body: which plainly implies transubstantiation.

[editor-surveyor]

Did he speak English?

No, he spoke Hebrew, in which it was clear that he meant that the Levened Barley loaf he held represented his soon to be broken body.

The blessing that he spoke can be found in Nunbers 6:24.

Yeshua’s request of us was that as often as we break bread and say that blessing, we do it in remembrance of him.

All the mystical cannibalism came hundreds of years later when the pagan catholic church was created by Constantine and his pagan priestess mom.

If that garbage is more important to you than Yeshua, so be it.
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[verga]

This is my body…He does not say, This is the figure of my body—but This is my body. (2 Council of Nice, Act. 6.) Neither does he say in this, or with this is my body; but absolutely, This is my body: which plainly implies transubstantiation.

Minor point, This in no way "implies" transubstantiation, It screams it from the rooftops in Gory and Truth!< P>Sadly it will fall on deaf ears. There are to many here that have to large an axe to grind.

[boatbums]

I appreciate your kind words of encouragement. God bless you!

[boatbums]

Let me explain it for you. The devil fooled Eve into disobeying God by promising that she and Adam, “would be as gods”. In other words, you don't NEED to do what God says, you can do it all yourself. This is the same thing as what some here are claiming - that we can be righteous by our deeds, righteous enough that the sacrifice of Christ only “helps” but cannot completely save us unless we also DO, DO, DO. Catholicism says the same thing. It is why the “good news” of salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone to the glory of God alone is rejected by those who depend more on their OWN merit to deserve salvation.

[verga]

[verga]

Rom 2:5 but after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up for thyself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

Rom 2:6 who will render to every man according to his works:

Rom 2:7 to them that by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and incorruption, eternal life:

2Co 5:10 For we must all be made manifest before the judgment-seat of Christ; that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

2Co 11:15 It is no great thing therefore if his ministers also fashion themselves as ministers of righteousness, whose end shall be according to their works.

1Pe 1:17 And if ye call on him as Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to each man's work, pass the time of your sojourning in fear:

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne; and books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of the things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead that were in it; and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Col 3:23 whatsoever ye do, work heartily, as unto the Lord, and not unto men; Col 3:24 knowing that from the Lord ye shall receive the recompense of the inheritance: ye serve the Lord Christ.

[Iscool]

This is my body…He does not say, This is the figure of my body—but This is my body. (2 Council of Nice, Act. 6.) Neither does he say in this, or with this is my body; but absolutely, This is my body: which plainly implies transubstantiation.

Luk_22:18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.

And Jesus says he will not drink any more of his own blood until the Kingdom of God shows up...

It's amazing all of the scripture that your religion has to trash to make your transubstantiation work...

[boatbums]

Sola Scriptural is the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on Christianity.

No, some Catholics' abysmal definition of sola Scriptura is the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on Christianity.

If God's word says, All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. (II Tim. 3:16,17), then explain how it can possibly be a "fraud" to state that the Scriptures are the Divinely-ordained authority by which all claims of the rule of our faith must be measured?

[Jeremiah Jr]

More things xians will not hear on Sunday morning...

Most people (many) know of the bad mark.

Revelation 13,16 He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, 17 and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

How many know there's a good mark?

Exodus 13,16 And it will be like a sign on your hand and a symbol on your forehead that the Lord brought us out of Egypt with his mighty hand.’

Notice it's the same numbers, 13, 16! Not to mention hand and forehead.

I have my Fathers mark because I observe Pesach and Matzah!

Exodus 13,9 says much the same thing.

9 This observance will be for you like a sign on your hand and a reminder on your forehead that this law of the Lord is to be on your lips. For the Lord brought you out of Egypt with his mighty hand. 10 You must keep this ordinance at the appointed time year after year.

When something is repeated pay attention! Reminds me of the Magen David. When the Hebrews placed the blood of the lamb on the doorposts and lintel it formed the triangle pointing up, when Yeshua hung on the tree He formed the triangle pointing down. The years between the two events (Pesach) is encoded in Daniel.

The other mark can be found in the Quran.

48. Surah Al-Fath (The Victory)
29. Muhammad () is the Messenger of Allah, and those who are with him are severe against disbelievers, and merciful among themselves. You see them bowing and falling down prostrate (in prayer), seeking Bounty from Allah and (His) Good Pleasure. The mark of them (i.e. of their Faith) is on their faces (foreheads) from the traces of (their) prostration (during prayers). This is their description in the Taurat (Torah). But their description in the Injeel (Gospel) is like a (sown) seed which sends forth its shoot, then makes it strong, it then becomes thick, and it stands straight on its stem, delighting the sowers that He may enrage the disbelievers with them. Allah has promised those among them who believe (i.e. all those who follow Islamic Monotheism, the religion of Prophet Muhammad till the Day of Resurrection) and do righteous good deeds, forgiveness and a mighty reward (i.e. Paradise).

You get marked in the forehead from bowing to Mecca!

Shabbat Shalom!

Now for you Greek hillbillies...

Torah And Science Part 1
Rabbi Yosef Mizrachi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7AIUn8VcjI

The Debate - Christianity VS. Judaism Part 1
Rabbi Yosef Mizrachi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kO76MWmKXpc

[Legatus]

It is why the “good news” of salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone to the glory of God alone is rejected by those who depend more on their OWN merit to deserve salvation.

Lord have mercy upon me but I am compelled to respond to this. At every Holy Mass I attend the following is said:

To us also Thy sinful servants, who put our trust in the multitude of Thy mercies, vouchsafe to grant some part and fellowship with Thy holy Apostles and Martyrs: with John, Stephen, Matthias, Barnabas, Ignatius, Alexander, Marcellinus, Peter, Felicitas, Perpetua, Agatha, Lucy, Agnes, Cecilia, Anastasia, and all Thy Saints. Into their company we beseech Thee admit us, not considering our merits, but freely pardoning our offenses. Through Christ our Lord.

NOT by our merits. Our trust is in the mercy of God and His free pardon of our sins through Christ our Lord. I don't think this is some kind of word game, I believe it. The Mass goes on:

By whom, O Lord, Thou dost always create, sanctify +, quicken +, bless +, and bestow upon us all these good things. Through Him +, and with Him +, and in Him +, is unto Thee, God the Father + Almighty, in the unity of the Holy + Ghost, all honor and glory.

And all the people said Amen. No really, that's where the people say Amen.

[boatbums]

Aaron casts stones at those who are accused of sin. Christ makes us all into living Stones. Under Aaron we are bent reeds and glowing coals with the expectation of being broken or snuffed out respectively! Under Christ bent reeds are not broken and glowing coals are not snuffed out. The reeds are allowed to mature into full fruitfulness and the coals are fanned again into everlasting flame! Under Aaron we are chained by ritual and made to feel guilty or to become angry at the manipulations of the wolves in sheeps’ clothing. Under the Spirit of Christ, we have our Liberty as we too are given “power to become the son’s of God” !

Beautifully and eloquently stated!

[Iscool]

So you cherry picked a bunch of verses that have no context within themselves or with each other...So what???

[Springfield Reformer]

I specifically asked you to spare me whatever mental gymnastics you used to square your denial of scripture with your desire to be a Christian.

And that's the very grovelling I have no intention of doing. Where God opens up an opportunity to share the Gospel, that's worth doing, even if it irritates those who don't like to hear it. Besides, you crashed my conversation, not the other way around. And even that could have led to further adult conversation, but your "arguments" consist of "shut up" and "grrrr." Is that all you've got? I think it is. I am sorry for you. If you had some killer argument that established transubstantiation as truth, that card would have been played by now. Instead, its all about psyops. And I'm pretty sure making it personal, even if used as an avoidance tactic, is contra forum rules. There's a good reason for that. Do you feel you are beyond such limitations? Just curious.

Peace,

SR

[editor-surveyor]

“Who will render to every man according to his works”

Is a hard pill to swallow for those that have been fooled by the grace without obedience lie.

Those verses were not “cherry picked,” but Paul’s standard fare, if you were more familiar with his writings. He can be hard to follow for those not accustomed to his rambling style.

Romans chapter 2 is his simple explanation of the way of Yeshua. 1John 2 is the same message for those with less time to spend reading.
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[af_vet_1981]

Let me explain it for you. The devil fooled Eve into disobeying God by promising that she and Adam, “would be as gods”. In other words, you don't NEED to do what God says, you can do it all yourself. This is the same thing as what some here are claiming - that we can be righteous by our deeds, righteous enough that the sacrifice of Christ only “helps” but cannot completely save us unless we also DO, DO, DO. Catholicism says the same thing. It is why the “good news” of salvation by grace alone, through faith alone in Christ alone to the glory of God alone is rejected by those who depend more on their OWN merit to deserve salvation.

1. In other words, you don't NEED to do what God says, you can do it all yourself Is this when a person says he has a personal relationship with Jesus but refuses to obey what an Apostle commands him in the Scripture ?
2. It is why the “good news” of salvation by grace alone I cannot seem to find salvation by "grace alone" in the Bible (and I am using the KJV). Where did you find that phrase ? I do find the negative of it, Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
3. The last words of our LORD Jesus Christ to us are concerned about works. I think one ignores that at extreme peril. And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand. He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen.