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1 posted on 06/26/2014 3:43:27 PM PDT by GarySpFc
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To: GarySpFc

Baptism?

Why, all one needs to do is pray The Believers Prayer and ask Jesus to come into your heart. That’s it. You’re saved.

/sarc


2 posted on 06/26/2014 3:46:58 PM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: GarySpFc

Roots in Paradise (RIP)
That’s what I want on my tombstone – Roots in Paradise. I will die – I know that. But that is not what I’m thinking about now. My thoughts, plans, and actions are built on living.
I have been immersed in a study of David and of the Revelation of John as of late, and this has helped focus my vision. David never “worked” to get the throne – God had said it would happen so David could wait, endure, and forego all thoughts or vengeance. And in Revelation we get to “see” God in total control, all things working toward His plan – and the vengeance is, indeed, His alone. As I work on these enduring principles – God is in control and I can wait – I find myself being rooted more and more in the life to come – in Paradise. Now don’t get me wrong, there’s nothing wrong with living in this life – I really love it! But putting down roots – now that’s another thing all together. Because I have learned that I am changed by the soil from which I pull my sustenance. The soil of this earth turns my heart towards apathy, restlessness, envy, anger, revenge, and self. It really cannot be helped. We are what nourishes’ us. So as long as I am nourished by the soil of this earth, I am fighting a losing battle – a battle I cannot win.
But put those roots in the soil of Paradise – and these things simple begin to fade away. This soil yields compassion, peace, contentment, love, patience, and – yes – Joy! Now this is a foundation upon which I can truly build my thoughts, plans, and actions for living. Not because this world does not matter – but because it matters so much that I don’t have to concern myself with outcomes – that is Heavens’ concern. I just concern myself with today.
Sounds like a cop-out, doesn’t it? I can have it all now AND in the life to come? But that is just what we are promised. “I have come that you may have life, and have it to the full”. These are not my words, but His. I’m just trying to figure out how that happens. And it all has to do with roots – and the soil they are planted in.
So how does this “transplant” happen? It starts with Baptism. In Baptism I die (am uprooted) to take root (am transplanted) into Paradise – my new home. But as soon as the service is over, I start putting down roots once again in the earth. It’s the way of the world – how can I avoid it? David did (for most of his life) and John saw it. It’s the assurance of things hoped for, the promise of things to come. And this must be my vision – my focus – my future. As long as I can maintain this, my roots stay firmly in place. Then, and only then, can I truly live the life I was given to live in this world.
It all starts with a simple principle – one guaranteed to work every time – keeping my Roots in Paradise! – That’s what I want on my tombstone.


4 posted on 06/26/2014 6:33:43 PM PDT by impactplayer
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To: GarySpFc
The article above suggesta that a better definition of the baptism of "converts" in Christendom is needed. But the account is sort of meandering and at times inconclusive. Here is a shorter, more precise, and Scripturally well-suupported definiyion, from the "Happy Heralds" site:

VI. BAPTISM OF DISCIPLES OR WATER BAPTISM

(click on the above to view the entire article)

*********beginning of excerpt*************

Now consider the seven factors of Baptism of Disciples.

I. A PARTICULAR MESSAGE PROCLAIMED.

The particular message proclaimed in connection with the Baptism of Disciples is The Gospel of The Lord Jesus Christ (Mk.16:15), but also to “make disciples” of people of all nations and “keep ALL things watchfully secure whatsoever I have commanded you&” Mt.28:19,20 APT). This message includes: His Creatorship; His Deity; His virgin birth; His perfection; His agonizing, vicarious death enduring the Wrath of The God in darkness; His burial; His resurrection-ascension and high priestly ministry; His exaltation; the coming again of our Lord Jesus Christ; His Saviorhood (Acts 5:31) and the basis on which Salvation including forgiveness of sins is appropriated (Acts 20:21); and His Lordship including the true meaning of Disciples’ Baptism, that the disciple together with Christ is crucified to Sin, self, and the world and lives the victorious, resurrected life as an overcomer (Mt. 7:21; Acts 10:36; Lk. 6:46-48; Rom. 12:1,2: Gal. 2:20; 1 Jn. 4:1,4,5; 5:4,5; Rev. 21:7,8).

When Peter first preached The Gospel and opened the Kingdom to the Jews with the keys The Lord Jesus Christ had given to him, he preached The Gospel of Christ and the necessity of repentance for Salvation followed by the command to be baptized at once. A few days later Peter had a little better understanding of The Gospel. He did not tell the hearers to be baptized, but he told them to repent and be converted (Acts 3:19). So he moved away from the preaching the act of baptism in connection with Salvation. But in the beginning he preached it because of the understanding from the fact that The Lord Jesus baptized and His disciples baptized and prior to that John baptized. There was a primitive understanding about baptism, but as The Holy Spirit revealed The Truth more clearly, the contents of the message became more precise and the act of baptism was not retained in the message of The Gospel of The Lord Jesus Christ. As one reads through the Book of Acts, at first one finds the Deity of Christ (3:13) is emphasized, then the perfection of Christ (3:14) and His death, burial and His resurrection-ascension (3:15). Also included in The Gospel is the exaltation of Christ (His ascension to the right hand of The God) and His coming again was alluded to (3:19) and then the emphasis on The Saviorhood and The Lordship of Christ, not in word but in deed (the ones who actually do his will, making Him The Lord of their lives (Acts 10:36). “He is Lord of all!” Thus The Saviorhood (Acts 5:31; 13:23) and The Lordship of Christ (Acts 2:36; 10:36; Rom. 10:9) were also involved in the particular message that was proclaimed.

II. A FAITH PROVEN (EXERCISED).

The faith that is exercised is saving faith in The Lord Jesus Christ that is proven by means of the Baptism by The Holy Spirit. The fact that one has been truly baptized by The Holy Spirit and therefore regenerated is proof that the faith committed to The Lord Jesus Christ has been accompanied by repentance and acknowledged by The Father. The change in lifestyle and persistent obedience to all Scripture is evidence that such repentance and saving faith has been committed. Additionally, the candidate for disciples’ baptism demonstrates that he or she has indeed been crucified to Sin, self, and the world together with Christ and therefore needs to be buried with Christ in the likeness of His burial and resurrection to walk in newness of life (Acts 8:12, 37; 9:18; 10:47, 48; 16:15, 33, 34; 18:8; 19:4, 5).

"But when they committed trust to the evangelizing[pronouncing glad tidings] by Philip with reference to the~ things concerning the Kingdom of The God and the name of /Jesus Christ, both men and women were being baptized" (Acts 8:12 APT*).

Notice who were the ones being baptized by Philip in Samaria: men (husbands) and women (wives), but not children! Remember now this is disciples’ baptism. It is difficult for young children to become disciples. They can learn about The Lord Jesus Christ, but they have great difficulty in making disciples by themselves and greater difficulty denying the self life and being dead to Sin, self, and the world. It becomes a problem with them, mainly because they have not matured and their bodies have not fully developed.

The Ethiopian eunuch proved his faith by vocally identifying himself with The Lord Jesus Christ and requesting of himself to be baptized (Acts 8:37). It is essential that the candidate for Disciples’ Baptism of oneself request baptism when that one meets the qualifications for baptism even as the Ethiopian eunuch did. The apostle Paul’s faith was proven in a deeper way. He had given evidence that he was a changed man. As a matter of fact, unless Saul was a changed man, Ahnahnéeahs did not even want to go near him (Acts 9:13-17).

In Philippi, Ludéeah attended unto the things which were spoken of by Paul and she was baptized and her household (Acts 16:14,15). Now the household in this particular case, if you go back to verses 12,13 all were women. The household of Lydia was a household of women servants, neither children nor husband nor men were involved. So Paul and Lydia proved their faith. Also in Philippi there was the Philippian jailer who gave evidence that he believed as he came and took Paul and Séelahs and washed their stripes (Acts 16:32-34). The jailor saw the evidence of their faith in Jesus Christ by the fact that these men were not going to escape and run away but stayed there in the prison after the earthquake opened the doors. He took them into his home and showed by his life of caring for their stripes that he meant business with The God, and straightway he and all his were baptized. Again the household is referring to servants as it usually does, and does not include children, because God usually tells us when children are meant. But in every case along the way it has been men and women and the household. It is reading into Scripture what is not there if one makes the ‘house’ mean little children. Finally reference is made to many Corinthians being baptized but not all by Paul (Acts 18:8). Kréespohs believed with all his house. It does not say that his whole house was baptized. In Paul’s Epistle to the Corinthians he indicates who he baptized (1 Cor. 1:14-16).

III. AN ACTION PERFORMED.

There must be an action performed on the part of the participant to be baptized by The Holy Spirit. Here with disciples’ baptism the action is death to Sin, self, and the world and yielding to The Holy Spirit’s work to be a bondslave to Righteousness and to The God and thus demonstrating that Sin is not reigning in one’s mortal body and fruit is being borne unto sanctification (Rom. 6:11,22,4-6; Col. 2:11,12). But one cannot be buried by baptism into death if one has not reckoned oneself to be dead. So the action performed is a reckoning to be dead, the act of burial and planting in the waters of baptism and rising to new life. There has to be the reckoning to be dead before there can be the burial. The burial takes place simultaneously with the planting. For what reason is a fruit tree planted? To bear fruit. (Jesus said, “By their fruits ye shall know them.” He also said that the good soil is that which bears fruit, some thirty, some sixty, and some an hundredfold.

The purpose of the baptism is that discipleship has progressed to the fruit-bearing stage (Jn. 15:8). The evidence in the life is that there has been (the reckoning of death to self, sin, and the world) and now the burial takes place and the planting in order that after this there should be fruit bearing and walking in newness of life (rising out of the water unto new life in Christ).

IV. A CONFESSION PRONOUNCED.

The confession that must be pronounced at the baptism of a disciple is as follows, "The Lord Jesus Christ, The Son of God is my Savior and Lord. I am now dead to Sin, self, and the world. Christ now lives in me and through me" (Gal. 2:20; 1 Pet. 4:1, 2).

The eunuch said, "I am committing trust that Jesus Christ is The Son of The God." Further confession includes, He is my Savior and Lord, because in The Gospel that Peter preached recorded in The Book of Acts he emphasized the Lordship (Acts 2:36; 10:36) and the Saviorhood (Acts 5:31) of The Christ. If He is The Son of The God, and He is, then He is my Savior (1 Tim. 4:10; Tit. 2:13,14) and my Lord (Rom. 10:9,10). This is the confession that must be pronounced. Also I must confess that I am dead to Sin, self, and the world and The Lord Jesus Christ liveth in me and through me (Gal. 2:20). I live this new life in Christ by His faith so that it is His life living through me.

V. THE MEANING PROJECTED -- Resurrection.

The meaning of the Baptism of a disciple is that the participant is spiritually passing through death, burial and planting, Resurrection, and living a new, victorious, resurrection life in the Lord Jesus Christ (Rom. 6:4,5; Gal. 2:20; 5:24; 6:14). It also means that the disciple has been clothed with Christ (Gal. 3:27) and has been circumcised by means of circumcision not made with hands through the operation and effectual working of The God (Col. 2:10-12)

VI. AN INDICATION PRODUCED -- Funeral.

The indication that is produced by Baptism of a Disciple is that he or she is going to one’s own white funeral and is no longer living unto self, Sin, and the world, but unto Him Who died for that one and rose again. It indicates to the world that that disciple belongs to The Lord Jesus Christ and no longer lives unto himself or herself as a bondslave to sin and unrighteousness, but unto Him Who died in that one’s stead and rose again to give that one new and absolute life. It also indicates that he or she has a beneficially good and clear conscience with regard to God (1 Pet. 3:18-21).

VII. AN IDENTIFICATION PROFESSED.

The Baptism of a disciple identifies him or her as a committed disciple and bondslave of The Lord Jesus Christ. It also identifies him or her as one that is buried and planted with The Lord Jesus Christ to begin producing fruit for His glory.

***********end of excerpt*************

By Dr. Fred Wittman

* APT = from "A Precise Translation" of which the volume "The Gospels: A precise Translation" is freely available at the above we site

5 posted on 06/27/2014 12:54:18 AM PDT by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
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To: GarySpFc
I would propose that we collectively quit ‘arguing about words’ (2 Timothy 2:14) and instead simply seek to do what God told us to do, and to practice this most ancient and significant of ceremonies as a part of our commitment to the Lord Jesus Christ.

Amen brother Finch.

8 posted on 06/27/2014 10:40:35 AM PDT by redleghunter (But let your word 'yes be 'yes,' and your 'no be 'no.' Anything more than this is from the evil one.)
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To: GarySpFc; redleghunter; Springfield Reformer; metmom; boatbums; caww; presently no screen name; ...
This issue has often being an issue of extensive debate by both sides, and with texts which need to be reconciled.

The Lord commanded baptism, and said that

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Mark 16:16)

Peter both tells souls that if they will be baptized then they will receive the Spirit, (Acts 2:38) and that if souls will believe then they will be forgiven of their sins. (Acts 10:43)

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38)

To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. (Acts 10:43)

And receiving this word, they were forgiven/born again by God's grace, and then baptized:

Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? (Acts 10:47)

And referring to which, Peter states,

And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. (Acts 15:7-9)

Here we see that it was the faith that was expressed in baptism that appropriated the "washing of regeneration," purifying their hearts by faith. Which Titus 3:5 says is "not of works."

Rome herself at least allows as an exception this prebaptismal regeneration:

If the contrition be perfect (contritio caritate perfecta), then active justification results, that is, the soul is immediately placed in the state of grace even before the reception of the sacrament of baptism or penance, though not without the desire for the sacrament (votum sacramenti) — Catholic Encyclopedia> Sanctifying Grace

Yet Peter does not treat this as an exception, but as the basis for NT salvation, and is his theological explanation of conversion, and which interprets Mk. 16:16 and Acts 2:38.

For as the Lord said in John,

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. (John 5:24)

Which is that purification of hearts is by faith, the faith that confesses the Lord Jesus baptism, and which confession confirms one is a believer, as faith is manifest by what/who it obeys. It can even be the occasion for conversion, as a catalyst used by God to induce one to believe, with the faith true baptism both requires and expresses.

And as this confession testifies to faith, thus the promise, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." (Mark 16:16) As well as that of Acts 2:38.

To which the words of Paul conflate:

That if thou shalt with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man unto righteousness; and with the mouth is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.(Romans 10:9-11)

For whosoever shall

For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. (Romans 10:13) Yet confession by moving one's neurons and tongue is no less a work then moving one'' legs to be baptized, though both are motivated and enabled by God. Baptism is a "sinner's prayer" in body language, and is far more substantial than mere words.

But while any volitional response by man is a work, the "not of works" exclusion does not mean that man is a passive party in conversion, as if he were comatose or morally incognizant (though in election itself man essentially may be said to be), but that man choosing (under Divine motivation and enablement) is not a work of merit, but even the assent of faith is a work of God,

Who draws souls, (Jn. 6:44; 12:32) , opens hearts, (Acts 16:14) and grants repentance, (Acts 11:18) and gives faith, (Eph. 2:8,9) so that in conversion man does what he otherwise would not and could not do.

Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. (Romans 3:27-28) But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. (Romans 4:5)

But going back to Rm. 10:9,10, does believing in the heart justify one or the confession of that faith? The word for "unto," "eis" is the same one used in "believeth righteousness," and " confession is made salvation," as well "the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him," (v. 12) and can mean everything from "into" and "toward" to "concerning" (such as Rm. 16:19) and "against."

The sense of "concerning" that seems to best fit in this case, as we see that hearts are purified by faith in the washing of the regenerative event before baptism, and that "with the heart that man believeth unto righteousness," and that the same apostle states, "what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness." (Romans 4:3; cf. Gn. 15:6)

Moreover, if manifest confession is essential then it disallows death bed conversions.

Thus, since souls realized the washing of regeneration by faith, (Acts 10:43; 15:9) passing from death unto life by believing, (Jn. 5:24) and the heart-faith is counted for righteousness, (Rm. 4:3-6), "believing unto justification, (Rm. 10:9) then the most warranted conclusion that reconciles the texts is that it is the kind of faith that confesses the Lord Jesus in trusting Him to save the contrite damned + destitute sinner by His blood and righteousness, is that which appropriates justification. And at this point the person is in Christ, baptized by the Spirit into the body, (1Cor. 12:13) having been washed, sanctified and justified. (1Cor. 6:11)

Yet "confession is made unto salvation," as concerns salvation, since it is by the manifest effects of faith that we know it exists and that one is saved. A believer is known by who he obeys. And thus while Abraham was justified by faith being counted for righteousness, he is also said to be justified by the working out of that faith, in the sense of justification which justifies him as having salvific faith. And which kind of faith is what James refers to, as the only definition of saving faith is the faith that effects obedience = "works."

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? (James 2:14) Paul is dealing with the positional, in which faith is counted for righteousness in Gn. 15:6, not the good works of faith which Abraham had already accomplished, by which one is made accepted in the Beloved.

James is dealing with the practical, in which the faith that is salvific is the one that does works, in arguing against inert faith that does not effect the obedience of faith. If he is referring to justification in the same sense as Genesis and Paul, then we have a contradiction, since the latter two clearly state that Abraham was justified in Gn. 15 by faith being counted for righteousness, while James states,

Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?..Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. (James 2:21,24)

A key word here is "how," in the sense of justification as regards being a true believers versus false, which is what Jame arguing against. As true faith in the risen Lord Jesus effects obedience toward its Object by the regenerated who has a relationship with Him, thus to believe is to obey, and thus how a believer is justified as being saved is by works of faith, as faith testifies to him being a true believer.

But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak. (Hebrews 6:9)

And thus "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned," (Mark 16:16) "For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified." (Romans 2:13) For while "with the heart man believeth unto righteousness," the one who confesses the Lord Jesus on obedience testifies that he has faith, and will be saved, thus with the mouth [and baptism, etc,.] confession is made unto salvation. (Romans 10:10)

And which faith is thus judged by its works, which manifests the believer is fit to be rewarded, (Mt. 25:31-40; Rv. 2:7,11, 17,26; 3:5,11,21; 21:7)) even being called "worthy" (Rv. 3:4), which is under the rubric of God's covenantal grace and faithfulness to souls who apart from justification by faith on Christ's account, really deserve eternal damnation for their sins. (Rm. 6:23)

This i see as best reconciling both sides of the texts. See here and here for similar recent examinations by God's grace.

Note also it was not due to Abraham's own inner holiness that Abraham was counted for righteousness, as per Roman regeneration, but "Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness." (Romans 4:3)

Note also that contrary to the RC strawman of sola fide, it neither leaves the sinner merely white washed with only a legal holiness, for indeed justification is part of the event of the washing of regeneration, nor does it refer to a faith being salvific which does not effect works (given opportunity). But neither regeneration or works that flow from it are what justifies one in conversion, by faith is imputed for righteousness, for indeed, "to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the unGodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." (Romans 4:5)

But as the faith in the Lord Jesus that saves is one that characteristically follows the Lord, (Jn. 1:27,28) thus, like James, Reformers preached the inseparable nature of faith and works:

>This is what I have often said, if faith be true, it will break forth and bear fruit. If the tree is green and good, it will not cease to blossom forth in leaves and fruit. It does this by nature. I need not first command it and say: Look here, tree, bear apples. For if the tree is there and is good, the fruit will follow unbidden. If faith is present works must follow.” [Sermons of Martin Luther 2.2:340-341]

>“We must therefore most certainly maintain that where there is no faith there also can be no good works; and conversely, that there is no faith where there are no good works. Therefore faith and good works should be so closely joined together that the essence of the entire Christian life consists in both.” [Martin Luther, as cited by Paul Althaus, The Theology of Martin Luther [Philadelphia: Fortress Press, 1963], 246, footnote 99]

More .

10 posted on 06/27/2014 4:42:44 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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