Posted on 07/10/2014 8:05:46 PM PDT by NKP_Vet
How does one become born again?
Exactly
I’m actually trying to carry on a conversation. Do you care or would you rather score cheap points?
Who is Dr Scott Hahn that I should believe him?
Recommending a book instead of answering the question is a copout.
I listened to Paul’s letter to the Galatians three times today while performing manual labor. I wasn’t alone, as the Holy Spirit was using one of my beloved brothers in the cloud of witnesses to communicate His Truth to me.
Glorious!
>”Why don’t we simply stick with what is in Scripture... what did Christ serve the Apostles at the Last Supper? Was it His Body and Blood or bread and wine?”
I’ll ask again, on what premises besides Scripture do you base your opinion?
No. It's a recognition that what took a book to explain isn't going to be summarized terribly well here. If you insist, I will try (but it won't be anywhere near a complete argument)...
The Mass is the joining of Heaven and Earth. In the Mass, we participate in Christ's sacrifice on the Cross imaged in Revelation as the Lamb slain. There is a Heavenly reality to the Earthly liturgy. This reality is expressed in Revelation but understanding it requires an understanding of Tradition (big T)--especially the Liturgy of the Mass.
I doubt you would believe what i said I believed concerning the definition of believe is.
However, I think, as a matter of discourse in the English language, we can agree that words mean things, and that there a standard definitions to words that we all should accept, or we play semantics instead of debating doctrine. So, I will go with Websters definition:
to accept or regard (something) as true
Thus, I regard it as true, factual, and veracious that Jesus Christ lived a sinless life, was crucified for our sins, was dead and buried, and physically raised by God to life on the 3rd day. Furthermore, I freely confess Jesus is LORD. (all caps intentional).
Furthermore, I fully accept Jesus' words that my belief ALONE is sufficient for my salvation.
John 3:14-16 " 14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.” 16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
You’ve been using every trick to say nothing.
I stand on the foundation laid by Christ and built through His Apostles, Martyrs, Saints and Doctors of the Church.
Now... I'll ask again: What did Christ serve the Apostles at the Last Supper? Was it His Body and Blood or bread and wine?
>”The Mass is the joining of Heaven and Earth. In the Mass, we participate in Christ’s sacrifice on the Cross imaged in Revelation as the Lamb slain. There is a Heavenly reality to the Earthly liturgy. This reality is expressed in Revelation but understanding it requires an understanding of Tradition (big T)—especially the Liturgy of the Mass.”
And IF I told you that these assertions are wrong, to what authority would you appeal? (Besides Dr Hahn’s opinion, that is)
Are there truths outside the Bible? Yes. Are some of them important truths passed on by wise men who knew the Lord or his Apostles? Yes. Are there truths outside the Bible necessary for salvation. No. Who Jesus is, what he did, what he accomplished on the cross, that he was resurrected and rose from the dead and ascended into heaven are pretty much laid out in black and white. As a result, our sins are forgiven and we are new men in Chirst. That is the gospel. The rest is backstory. Magnificent backstory. But backstory nevertheless.
Is there much more depth in the Bible that I don’t understand? Yes. Would I like to? Yes. Do I need to? No.
The important stuff is really really simple AND unambiguous.
My honest prayer is that you are genuinely seeking the answer to that question!!!
Jesus told Niccodemus in John 3:3 "...you must be born again". He went on the explain what I quoted above in John 3:14-16
" 14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,
15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
Titus 3:5 elaborates he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,
John 1:12-13 further explains 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
true
BOO!
(I’m a Calvinist.)
Even the demons believe... and they tremble in terror (James 2:19).
Furthermore, I freely confess Jesus is LORD.
Yet, not everyone who says to Christ, "Lord, Lord" will enter the Kingdom of God (Matt 7:21). Rather, only those who DO the will of God the Father.
Protestants decry the DOING part of salvation but it is essential. It's not that we are earning our salvation but that we are preparing for it. Believe is an action word. Your description is passive. If I believe that hard work will pay off in my business, that is good. It's even better if I roll up my sleeves and actually DO the hard work. If you believe in Christ as Lord, then you will do all that He has commanded. He commanded us to be baptized (Matt 28:19), confess our sins (John 20 & Acts 19:18), eat His flesh (John 6:56), fast, pray and give alms (Matt 6).
I offer this previous post for more of a discussion on the "work" we are called to. It's getting late and I should be going to bed soon.
No doubt, we are commanded to be baptized after we believe!
Also note "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved" comes first and is independently sufficient. See also the scriptures listed in posts 66 & 93
Really? Looking back at our conversation, I'm doing most of the talking. You're throwing out one-word posts and calling that an argument.
>”I stand on the foundation laid by Christ and built through His Apostles, Martyrs, Saints and Doctors of the Church.”
That’s rather general. But let’s say that I say it is a metaphor and you say it means there is a literal transubstantiation. On what basis can you say I’m wrong? I would only say that neither you nor any other human being can prove it, and what difference does it make?
I should accept your authority over the authority given the Church? Perhaps you would like to make an argument for your cause besides just asserting I am incorrect...?
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