Dear Gabby

Harvesting the Fruit of the Vatican II ^ | July 28, 2014 | Louie Verrecchio

[mitch5501]

God Bless

[BlueDragon]

That's a keeper.

To be yet further subversive [hint, hint] I could ask concerning that little piece of comedy gold

Is it bigger than a bread cereal box?

[Elsie]

It was a command directed towards St. John.

Next question?

Why do SO many folks take commands directed to specific targets, and think that those commands ALSO should be applied to others?

[Elsie]

That measly 167 rule list is peanuts! ;o)

Humans DO seem to have a propensity to add bells and whistles to the basics...

 

John 6:28-29

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

[Elsie]

NOW you’ve done it!

We could have gotten along just fine without the mention of CEREAL!!!

[daniel1212]

Honestly, just when you think you’ve heard it all from Catholics, they come along with some other bizarre statement that if a non-Catholic made it would be attacked as *hate*, and it leaves you kind of gobsmacked, wondering why anyone in their right mind would follow a *church* like that.

Because she infallibly says she is the infallible one true church?

[Elsie]

How many words would God need to hear?

Isaiah 65:24
Before they call I will answer;
while they are still speaking I will hear.

[boatbums]

Thank for your encouraging words. I imagine our Heavenly Father delights in our “being still and knowing that He is God”. Sometimes, it means NO words are needed as He knows our thoughts, our needs and the deepest desires of our hearts that NO ONE else knows about or can see.

God bless you, too, dear Mitch5501!

[metmom]

Thanks.

I did see it.

Well done, as usual.

[metmom]

Matthew 6:7-13 “And when you pray, do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do, for they think that they will be heard for their many words. Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

Pray then like this: “Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name. Your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.

[boatbums]

Yep...”pray LIKE this”, Jesus said, not pray THIS exact prayer.

[daniel1212]

You left out a very important verse...Jeremiah 44:16.

Actually, it was on post

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3186619/posts?page=13#13 by God's grace. . And fitting.

No matter how much Jeremiah pleaded with the Jews, they didn't want to listen to a word he had to say. They didn't care. They felt they could worship God just the way they wanted to.

May we nor harden our hearts either.

[daniel1212]

Note that the numbers got messed up, but the parody is there.

[HarleyD]

May we nor harden our hearts either.

Amen! Our hearts are deceptive.

[FourtySeven]

I believe you may find this useful.

[af_vet_1981]

Notice how Jesus gives the exact same command in reverse to Mary. He is establishing a new family relationship for both of them. And this made sense under the circumstances. Jesus knew John was going to outlive the other disciples. He was the most logical candidate to care for Mary in her old age. He was just being a good Jew, enlisted here to help Jesus meet His commitments to His earthly parents, "Honor thy father and mother," which is a duty we all have to our own parents. Mary was indeed blessed above all women, for being granted the grace to bring Messiah into the world. But nothing in this passage speaks of prayer to her at all. God will not give His glory to another. See Isaiah 48:11.

Let us expand the border to include neighboring verses in John 19.

Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took His garments and made four parts, to each soldier a part, and also the tunic. Now the tunic was without seam, woven from the top in one piece. 24 They said therefore among themselves, “Let us not tear it, but cast lots for it, whose it shall be,” that the Scripture might be fulfilled which says: “They divided My garments among them, And for My clothing they cast lots.” Therefore the soldiers did these things. 25 Now there stood by the cross of Jesus His mother, and His mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene. 26 When Jesus therefore saw His mother, and the disciple whom He loved standing by, He said to His mother, “Woman, behold your son!” 27 Then He said to the disciple, “Behold your mother!” And from that hour that disciple took her to his own home. 28 After this, Jesus, knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the Scripture might be fulfilled, said, “I thirst!” 29 Now a vessel full of sour wine was sitting there; and they filled a sponge with sour wine, put it on hyssop, and put it to His mouth. 30 So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.

Just prior to his commands to his mother and his beloved disciple there are two prophetic fulfillments. Both include the language "that the Scripture might be fullfilled." That phrase is not found in, and does apply to, verses 25 through 27 which happened at the same relative time. It does not say he gives the commandments to fulfill any specific law or prophecy. He had extended family that should have care for Mary if that was the reason. Indeed, we see soon after how close they all are; his extended family is in the upper room: And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey. And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room, where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon Zelotes, and Judas the brother of James. These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.

I see him commanding a spiritual relationship rather than a legal Jewish family relationship. It appears that John was the only apostle who stood by Jesus at the crucifixion. Mary's sister Mary was there too, as well Mary Magdelene. I think that gave them a special bond. I further see it as a spiritual relationship any disciple that Jesus loves can have. If you are in his family, his mother is your mother; his brethren are your brethren; his Father is your Father. We all belong to each other, and have a spiritual relationship to each other, if we are in Him.

While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him. 47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. 48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? 49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! 50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

[Salvation]

**the principle of the village school. **

I didn’t read much beyond that comment. When someone doesn’t know how to spell, they probably don’t know of what they write either.

[ebb tide]

Good for you. I’m surprised it took you so long.

Slow reader?

[Salvation]

My God, do Thou strengthen and increase my faith in Thy divinity that I may adore it, and love it, and confess it even at the peril of my own life; let me be only too happy if I should be called to shed my blood in defense of it.

-- Saint Peter Julian Eymard

I'm dealing with either a dislocated or a sprained wrist. Thanks for your concerns. IOW, I haven't been online that much.

[Springfield Reformer]

Just prior to his commands to his mother and his beloved disciple there are two prophetic fulfillments. Both include the language "that the Scripture might be fulfilled."

The two events are in a single prophecy, here:

Psa 22:18  They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.

And they are a wonderful prophecy, being so obviously unique to the circumstances of Christ's death.

That phrase is not found in, and does apply to, verses 25 through 27 which happened at the same relative time.

I honestly am not sure what you're getting at here.  The death of Christ in general is fulfillment of numerous other OT prophecies, some right in Psalm 22, some in Isaiah 53, and elsewhere.  But I am not aware of any specific prophecy that would have anything to do with the relationship between John and Mary specifically, and in that sense I would have to disagree that versus 25 through 27 represent the fulfillment of a specific prophecy.  If indeed that is what you were trying to say.  If I have misunderstood you, please feel free to correct me on this.  I am somewhat guessing as to your meaning.

On the broader matter of a command of relationship, Jesus did have half-brothers (extended family), but they were all younger than Him, and it was His decision as the eldest with whom she should live, and He chose John.  However, I agree with you in the sense that this was not a strictly legal decision, though it had that aspect. As an attorney, I have seen some of the difficult decision-making that goes into caring for aging parents, and a genuine spiritual love between the parties is extremely important to the happiness of those final years. We know Mary was deeply wounded by these events, and who better to bear her up than Jesus' most faithful student during His moment of deepest need, John, the disciple whom Jesus loved.

As for commanding a unique spiritual relationship between the two, Christ had already commanded all his disciples that they love one another with the same kind of love that existed between the Father and the Son, and you can't do better than that, no matter who you are.. Commanding such love here, as though it were something new, would seem redundant.  And again, the commands are two, one to Mary, one to John, and they are equilateral. So whatever you make of the content of the command, you must apply it equally to both.  Mary is not being set over John in some mediatorial sense that can be extended to all believers. This is strictly between Jesus, Mary and John. There is no textual warrant for taking it further.

Your references confirm as much. See this parallel passage:

Luk 8:19-21  Then came to him his mother and his brethren, and could not come at him for the press.  (20)  And it was told him by certain which said, Thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to see thee.  (21)  And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it.

Jesus is not accepting the strictly biological definition of family, but wishes us to see ourselves, as believers in Him, as members of a much bigger and more important family, those whose unity is in love for God and love to both hear and do what God says.  This passage is saying that whatever familial connections He may have to Mary and His earthly brothers, those are secondary to being connected to Him through faith in Him.  Thus any of us who are in His spiritual family have as much access to Him as Mary or His brothers ever had.  Again, this eliminates the possibility that Mary or any other uber-saint is intended to act as mediator between us and God:

1Tim 2:5  For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

If there is only one designated mediator, there can't be two.

Peace,

SR