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To: daniel1212
After approx. 2,000 years of searching the Scriptures...

Just how old are you, Moses?

And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. Luke 1:28

And she [Elizabeth] cried out with a loud voice, and said: Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. Luke 1:42

Did Luther exclude the above from your bible?

16 posted on 07/29/2014 7:15:24 PM PDT by ebb tide
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To: ebb tide

Show us one prayer to anyone but God or one command or even permission given to pray to anyone but God.


17 posted on 07/29/2014 7:20:57 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: ebb tide; metmom
And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. Luke 1:28

And she [Elizabeth] cried out with a loud voice, and said: Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. Luke 1:42

Neither of those are prayers. The angelic greeting is just a greeting, and an announcement of great blessing. If a greeting can be accounted a prayer, then saying hello to someone on the elevator at work is praying and we are all in a lot of trouble. But of course it isn't, so there's no reason to see this as prayer either.

The greeting of Elizabeth is again a pronouncement of blessing, and here said with great feeling and intensity. But in no sense is Mary being addressed as one with supernatural power to mediate between Elizabeth and God, either in the giving of worship, which Elizabeth would know to be blasphemy to offer to anyone but God, or in the granting of supernatural aid, which is precisely what most people think of on hearing the word "prayer."

But what about the "Hail?" It is simply the word χαιρε ("chaire"), which is basically "cheers!," "be of good cheer!" etc. There is no way to twist that into a term of worship. It's just "Be happy," because something wonderful is going to happen to you. Which is all true. And has nothing whatsoever to do with either worship or prayer.

24 posted on 07/29/2014 8:07:53 PM PDT by Springfield Reformer (Winston Churchill: No Peace Till Victory!)
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To: ebb tide
Just how old are you, Moses?

An obvious lack of comprehension on your part, which is necessary in normal life and that of Biblical exchanges. Notice the use of the plural "we," which with 2,000 years being the scope, denotes identification with a historical body of people. I think you get the conveyance.

And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. Luke 1:28 And she [Elizabeth] cried out with a loud voice, and said: Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. Luke 1:42 Did Luther exclude the above from your bible?

What Luther may have done here is irrelevant, but by no means did he (he was more RC on this), but this "proof text" is simply no proof at all. Does your Bible say they prayed to her in Heaven? Do we formulate doctrines from silence or by extrapolating what we reason from physical relations on earth, without even one example or instruction? If this is such a common practice, and it is taught in Scripture, how could the Holy Spirit fail to provide even one example of praying to angels in Heaven in the OT or departed saints in the New?

And in instructing us how to pray, why would Jesus tell us to pray, "Our Mother who art in Heaven..."? And why would the Holy Spirit not be said to cry Mama, mother, since it says He cries, Abba, Father"? (Gal. 4:6) Or will you admit that this practice comes from nebulous oral "tradition," and stop trying to wrest Scripture to compel to support Rome?

25 posted on 07/29/2014 8:17:24 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: ebb tide
Did Luther exclude the above from your bible?

Where's the PRAYER; Luther hater!

35 posted on 07/30/2014 6:23:56 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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