Posted on 08/24/2014 10:55:16 AM PDT by wmfights
Yeah it is.
I was listening to Daniel this morning and in Daniel 8, 2,300 mornings and evenings are discussed. It is also sealed up (just like the seven thunders in Revelation) but because it speaks of the “distant” future.
I believe it means 2,300 years.
Read a bit ahead in the series. We should have a good discussion when we reach the various tribulation rapture views. Even though that discussion is ongoing in the part 9 thread still:)
I try to stick to the subject of each part because Walvoord establishes the foundation first. It seems everyone loves to jump to identifying the timing of each event.
FWIW, I've enjoyed reading your input on the various topics. I think it's good to keep a broad perspective.
Important point above as we continue this series.
here is a riddle:
when is a kingdom not a kingdom?
to those who reject historical Christianity, the kingdom of God does not have a King, so it can’t be a kingdom.
Christians believe Colossians 1:13 “he has delivered us from the dominion of darkness and transferred us to the KINGDOM of His beloved Son”
Christians believe 1 Corinthians 15:25 “ for he must REIGN until he has put all enemies under his feet “
Christians believe Hebrews 1:8 “ but of the Son he says “ Thy THRONE O God, is for ever and ever the righteous scepter is the scepter of THY KINGDOM.
Christians believe Acts 2:36 “let all the house of Israel therefore know assuredly that God has made him LORD and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified”
there is no doubt in the very early post-apostolic period, there were many who believed in a literal 1,000 year millennial kingdom, but as Justin Martyr points out, there were also many who did not believe this, but rather accepted the amillennial truth.
as time went on and the millennialists had to defend their beliefs from harmonizing ALL THE SCRIPTURES, they came around to the amillennial truth.
to imply that St Augustine was able to single handedly to switch the faith of the Catholic Church from millennial to amillennial is laughable on it’s face. he was merely teaching what came to be the orthodox position at the time.
look at the words of the Nicene Creed, written 100 years before St Augustine, “ and his kingdom will have no end”
no one believed by this time that the kingdom would end after 1,000 years.
one more historical item, the Catholic fathers ALL believed that the Church was the spiritual Israel of God and heirs to the promise made to Abraham. these were not dispensationalists in ANY sense of the word. One need only read Justin’s dialogue with Trypho to see the Apostolic teaching that the kingdom was taken from physical Israel and given to spiritual Israel.
but I do enjoy the fact that this series may cause some to look up the Church Fathers and maybe, just maybe, will cause some to see what they did teach about a number of subjects and compare those teachings to the faith they hold today.
>> “to those who reject historical Christianity, the kingdom of God does not have a King, so it can’t be a kingdom.” <<
The “king” of the kingdom of God is the Father.
Yeshua will occupy the throne of David, an Earthly kingdom, during the millennium.
.
You keep making an “either or” statement when discussing spiritual and physical Israel. The point you miss is it is not either or.
Please post a link to “ALL” the ECF views on their amil views.
Stick around this series addresses many of your issues. You may want to start reading.
The “king” of the kingdom of God is the Father
___________
here is where rood and the other cultists would really benefit by reading the NT instead of just the OT.
Acts 2:30 said God raised up Christ to sit him on David’s throne.
Acts 2:36 says Jesus is Lord. Lord means RULER, as in a King.
Colossians 1:13 flat out says the kingdom is of his beloved Son. that would be Jesus for those stuck in the OT.
1 Corinthians 15:25 says Jesus must reign until he has put all enemies at his feet. this will be accomplished when he returns on the last day.
finally, 1 Corinthians 15:24 says Jesus will deliver the kingdom to the Father.
so as usual, rood doesn’t know what he is talking about.
The point you miss is it is not either or
__________
yeah, it is either or.
there are two kingdoms, Jesus’s and Satan. there are two cities, Jerusalem and Babylon. there are two types of people, those in Christ and those who are not.
those in Israel and those who are not.
so physical Israel is no different than physical China, physical Nigeria, physical India, physical Sweden, etc etc.
all are sinners, all must be “born again”.
a physical Jew that rejects Jesus will die in their sin just as a physical Swede will who rejects Jesus.
a physical Jew who hears the good news and believes it and is baptized into Christ, is the same as the Swede who does the same.....they no longer are Jewish or Swedish in God’s eyes, they are now part of Jerusalem, part of Israel, part of the Church where there is neither Jew nor Greek, all are one in Christ.
the dispensationalist, not understanding the Christian Faith, wants to believe there is some special way to heaven for a physical Jew w/o Jesus. this of course is heresy.
David’s throne is temporary, and Earthly.
In the New Heaven / New Earth the throne is that of the Father, and the Son sits at his right hand.
Clipping scriptures as you do is deception.
.
Time is a part of creation.
On the first day of creation, it was expanded. This fact was left out of all translated Bibles.
That is why Earth looks and is young, while the expanse of creation being so great gives an appearance that great age is required.
But it all will cease to exist in a moment, as Peter says, in about 1000 more years.
>> “all must be “born again”. <<
.
Slight correction:
All that are to survive the destruction of the cosmos must be Born Again into a body that is created for the realm of the Father.
That is what happens at the First Resurrection.
This process is what Yeshua discussed with Nicodemus in John 3.
.
David’s throne is temporary, and Earthly
_______
2 Samuel 7:13 “ he shall build a house for my name and I will establish his the throne of his kingdom forever.
Luke 1:33 and he shall reign over the house of Jacob forever and of his kingdom there will be no end.
David’s throne is spiritual and eternal.
You have been told differently and shown scripture countless times...Can we assume you are only trying to deceive those who don't know any better???
I challenge you to provide the evidence that one of us ever said NT Jews can go to heaven without Jesus...If you can't, I've got you pegged correctly...
I have been told “Israel” means physical Jews.
Paul says in Romans 11 “all Israel will be saved”
many physical Jews rejected Jesus all through history, yet I am told they are Israel and will be saved.
logically then there must be a different way to salvation other than in Jesus Christ according to the dispensationalist.
that, or they are illogical. ( or both )
You nailed it Brother!
Ah where do any pre-millennials assert Jews have a different path of salvation? I see this claim often on the internet but never attributed. So please give me a source which claims this.
On another note, such assertions just show you are swinging at shadows which don’t exist. Proves you are not examining the content of the posted article. Which tells me a lot.
logically then there must be a different way to salvation other than in Jesus Christ according to the dispensationalist.
That is your failed logic...It has nothing to do with what dispensationalists believe, or claim...
The only thing you've been told is what scripture says...
Joh_14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
To keep from being ignorant of the matter you must deal with these verses...
Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
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