Martin Luther's Devotion to Mary

http://www.catholicculture.org ^ | April 24, 2003 | Dave Armstrong

[Iscool]

Is Jesus the second person of the Trinity, the Son of God?

Is Mary his mother?

Nope...Mary is the mother of the body that was provided for God to be manifest in...

1Ti_3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

And that's without controversy...

And that body died...Mary's portion in the Trinity died...God/Jesus put on a new/glorified body that had no connection with Mary...

When Jesus shows up he won't be the blond haired, blue-eyed, light complected Jesus that Mary bore...

[boatbums]

I guess you think Jerome was a heretic, then, too. Also:

Cardinal Cajetan (the same one who opposed Luther) and Cardinal Ximenes, both contemporaries of the era, wrote against the canonicity of these books as well. Further, there was opposition within Trent regarding these books, spearheaded by the group led by Giralamo Cardinal Seripando (for more information on this, read Hubert Jedin’s Cardinal Seripando, Papal Legate at Trent). The mere fact that there was opposition at Trent substantiates that no canon was in effect where the “judgment of the churches” would authoritatively bind the Catholic to the decision at Hippo and Carthage. (http://beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com/2011/10/did-jerome-change-his-mind-on-apocrypha.html)

Since you seem so enamored with these seven books, why don't you share with us a few of your favorite passages? While you are at it, can you explain all the doctrines they teach that are found nowhere else in the Bible?

[boatbums]

I think the reason I keep doing so is not so much for the obstinate few for which NO facts will suffice but for others who may be reading the thread so that they can have those facts to make up their own minds.

[Iscool]

The two natures fully resided within the Fetus Mary carried, and she can therefore rightfully be assigned the title ‘Mother of God’ without herself being divine.

The Divinity part is still a bit of a mystery since we know that the supposed Divinity of God withing the flesh of Jesus didn't know the day nor hour when Jesus would return to set up his Kingdom...However, that may be as simple as God hadn't made up his mind specifically on what day he would return...

But since we know that Mary was not the mother of Jesus' divinity insofar that the divinity was provided 100% by God, it's akin somewhat to a female dog nursing and raising a kitten...Does that make the dog the kitten's mother???

Or suppose with science that it now is, if a pig fetus was planted inside a woman and the pig was born, is the female human the mother of the pig??? Or just the bearer???

[boatbums]

Large numbers do not make it right.

There are probably more Muslims than Catholics in the world (upwards of 2 Billion now) and it's growing. Yet, Jesus said, "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. "For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

[Iscool]

I had a big issue with this doctrine when I first heard of it. Apparently, co-redemptrix literally means “with the redeemer” the doctrine refers to her remaining with Jesus (i.e. sticking by his side) throughout her life. It is not, apparently, supposed to be interpreted in the same fashion as more common terms like “co-owner” that assumes an equal partnership.

We all know what co- something means...It they wanted it to mean differently, they would change it...Or wouldn't have used it to begin with...

[boatbums]

You lapsed Catholics failed Protestants are the absolute worst Catholic Protestant-bashers. Guilt is a hard thing to overcome.

[353FMG]

“....it’s akin somewhat to a female dog nursing and raising a kitten....”

.
Dumbass comparison — was the kitten ever a physical part of the dog?

I will ignore your attempt at blasphemy.

[Iscool]

Dumbass comparison — was the kitten ever a physical part of the dog?

Was the Divinity of God ever a physical part of Mary???

The answer is no in both cases...Therefore the dog is not the mother of the kitten and Mary is not the mother of God, or Jesus' Divinity...

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“Luther was an alcoholic, Jew-hating, Catholic-hating, heretic, who only through the grace of God didn’t lose his head at the gallows.
“

That makes the miracle even more amazing doesn’t it? God chose that problem ridden man to restore His Gospel of Grace! There was probably no better man who needed grace than Luther. What a great sense of irony the Father has!

Thanks for calling our attention to it.

[metmom]

Yeah. The misrepresentations of Luther need to be countered with the truth.

[metmom]

Luther was an alcoholic, Jew-hating, Catholic-hating, heretic, who only through the grace of God didn’t lose his head at the gallows.

Good thing God protected him from the loving arms of the Catholic church, or he would likely have suffered a worse fate than the gallows.

[ebb tide]

Satan is aware of the perpetual virginity of Mary. Why shouldn’t a tool of his also be?

[metmom]

Satan is aware of the perpetual virginity of Mary. Why shouldn’t a tool of his also be?

The Catholic church teaches that.

Are you sure you want to go there?

[ebb tide]

Chapter 9 of the Apocalypse opens with Saint John’s terrifying vision:

“And the fifth Angel sounded the trumpet; and I saw a star fall from Heaven upon the earth, and to him was given the key to the bottomless pit.

>>“And he opened the bottomless pit: and the smoke of the pit ascended as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun was darkened, and the air with the smoke of the pit:

“And from the smoke of the pit, there came out locusts upon the earth, and power was given to them, as the scorpions of the earth have power.” (Apoc: 9:1-3)

Devout Catholic Scriptural commentators for the past 500 years have seen in this vision a prediction of Luther and his Protestant Revolt.<<

http://www.cfnews.org/page88/files/5ae7de14f0fb304f7bb78d6243389368-91.html

[verga]

It wasn't until the Reformation and the Council of Trent that the Roman Catholic church - in an attempt to assert its dominance and authority - formally recognized them as part of the canon.

This is either an out right lie or the biggest load of bull ever.

Council of Rome 382 accepted them. Councils of Hippo and Carthage 393 and 397 respectively both accepted them.

As for your comments about Jerome: "What sin have I committed if I follow the judgment of the churches? But he who brings charges against me for relating [in my preface to the book of Daniel] the objections that the Hebrews are wont to raise against the story of Susannah [Dan. 13], the Song of the Three Children [Dan. 3:29–68, RSV-CE], and the story of Bel and the Dragon [Dan. 14], which are not found in the Hebrew volume, proves that he is just a foolish sycophant. I was not relating my own personal views, but rather the remarks that they are wont to make against us. If I did not reply to their views in my preface, in the interest of brevity, lest it seem that I was composing not a preface, but a book, I believe I added promptly the remark, for I said, ‘This is not the time to discuss such matters’" (Against Rufinius 11:33 [A.D. 401]).

[Rashputin]

You wanna insist that the Holy Spirit allowed error to remain in His Holy Word for roughly eighteen hundred years and then pretend to believe the Holy Spirit is perfect, knock yourself out. Just don't also pretend you weren't aware of the truth with you're judged by Jesus Christ.

Matthew 12:31 Therefore I say to you: Every sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but the blasphemy of the Spirit shall not be forgiven.
Matthew 12:32 "And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but he that shall speak against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in the world to come.

Luke 12:10 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but to him that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven.

Denying the diety of the Holy Spirit by pretending that it is right and good to throw a large portion of the Old Testament into the garbate in order to avoid contridicting Protestant heresy without fail leads to hearing, "I never knew you" from the very same Jesus Christ who says that blaspheming the Holy Spirit shall not be forgiven.

You either accept the diety of the Holy Spirit or you don't and if you accept the diety and perfection of the Holy Spirit you don't throw out a large portion of the Old Testament as it existed prior to and at the time of Christ and the Apostles so you can be comfortable defying the clear teaching of God in the Scriptures you throw out.

Someone spounting the trash about why they follow the same anti-Christ, anti-Christian, Pharisees Jesus Christ condemned rather than Christ and the Holy Spirit is spouting an excuse for why they follow Eve rather than Jesus Christ. It's that simple and straight forward.

May God have mercy on such pretenders and grant them Grace sufficient to deliver them from the strong delusion of Self and Self Alone they love and cling to.

[Faith Presses On]

When people start to get to know God’s Word for themselves, they for the most part realize that the Catholic Church got far away from it. Even just knowing the Gospel and getting a sense of what it promises tends to turn people away from the Catholic Church in droves. There are some who turn to it for reasons like pride in that they believe there’s something good in themselves, or that they like how much the Catholic Church embraces the wisdom of the world and beliefs like evolution. But overall, if you have once and for all surrendered all you are to the Lord, understanding that there’s nothing to trust about your own nature and that He wants you to live in continual dependence on Him, then you understand that if you have completely given up on yourself, He is all you need and will take care of you, and He will bring you into fellowship with those who also have given up on themselves and surrendered to Him.

[verga]

This is some very funny stuff, none of it is true or accurate, but dang it is still pretty funny.

I can say this because I am a revert to the Catholic Church. I left, due to poor catechesis, embraced the lie of anti-Catholicism, and then after a thorough investigation and God's grace came back.

And plainly people leave for two reasons, poor catechesis, or unconfesed sin. anything else they tell you is a lie to make themselves feel better.

[HarleyD]

It wasn’t until the last 200 years that Mary was announced to be immaculate. And it was until 1965 that Mary was proclaimed the Mother of the Church.

This was well after Martin Luther’s time who I’m sure would have disagreed with both views.