Posted on 08/24/2014 4:45:06 PM PDT by NKP_Vet
Yep! Welcome back by the way!
So says another lapsed Catholic.
No, so many people leave it for reasons that have become more and more understandable to me the longer I’ve been a Christian. The world is simply far more exciting, interesting and even helpful than the clockwork machinery of the Catholic Church, which buries the truth in so much trivia and man-made ritual, and puts itself in between the Lord and man to keep them separate as much as possible. And why did that happen? I’m just reading today about how the ancient world tolerated homosexuality, and then the Church came along and eventually with its power clamped down on it, getting laws passed to make it illegal. Homosexuality (and sexual immorality in general) just didn’t disappear from the former Roman Empire for over a thousand years. It went somewhere. And one place it might have gone back then is into the Catholic priesthood. If something can’t be destroyed from outside, the alternative is to destroy it from within, which the spirit of antichrist has been doing in recent times, too. In politics there’s been Log Cabin Republicans, and GOProud, for example.
And the power of the priesthood, almost godlike, is especially attractive to the flesh. I work in a fast-food restaurant and how people can get pride over being just one step higher than other employees in some small way, as if we aren’t adults “flipping burgers.” But that’s human nature, and I can’t imagine in that case what the priesthood and Vatican must be like, but we get a lot of glimpses. I know the Catholic Church went after a woman who sued it after she was raped by a priest as a child. The man was convicted in another case, but the statue of limitations was up in hers so they sued her for legal fees. Then another case profiled on TV lately. A priest murdered a young woman and all the signs pointed to it, but the Catholic Church protected him and even apparently managed to pressure law enforcement. And call these anecdotes if you will, but I would have plenty more to say on the hubris of the priesthood if you’re interested. I don’t lightly question and find fault with a church organization who professes to follow Jesus Christ, but over time from observing the Catholic Church I’ve grown more and more disturbed by it. It also seems involved with so much of the racial segregation in our country, too. The Northeast is most segregated of all (per a study of schools). All in all, I know something very important. I can say, “Lord, I surrender all to you. If in anything I’m not surrendered to you, help me to surrender it to you. Let not my will be done if it conflicts with yours.” Have you and can you say that?
Did you not read the article?
It is a sweet and pious belief that the infusion of Mary's soul was effected without original sin; so that in the very infusion of her soul she was also purified from original sin and adorned with God's gifts, receiving a pure soul infused by God; thus from the first moment she began to live she was free from all sin" (Sermon: "On the Day of the Conception of the Mother of God," 1527)
Are you a lapsed Catholic? You seem to have a negative view on some issues.
Why is the Bible you quoted labeled “New”? What did y’all do with the old Bible?
“And plainly people leave for two reasons, poor catechesis, or unconfesed sin. anything else they tell you is a lie to make themselves feel better. “
Hi verga. Hope you are well these days.
I will gently disagree with your conclusion. I suspect there are a great many reasons people make decisions. Based on the discussions I’ve personally had with people who left catholicism and were now worshipping at another Christian denomination, I’d add:
A desire to know God in a personal way.
Assurance of eternal life.
Relevant worship and teaching.
A desire for the joy and comfort they witnessed in their Christian friends lives.
I suspect you could add to that, since it is off the top of my head and it wasn’t a large survey. Just Christians I’ve talked to over the decades.
Most of those I know/knew were confirmed and well catechized and frequent attenders. They had never personally entrusted themselves to Christ for salvation.
Some were infrequent in their attendance. They had quit going because they didn’t feel the mass was relevant culturally.
You may disagree or disbelieve this list, but it’s what I’ve heard in conversations.
I rejoice that they found Christ and are pursuing Him, as I rejoice when anyone follows Christ.
Nope two reason, poor catechesis or unconfessed sin, everything else is either a lie or an excuse. Please remember that Catholics are the first Christians and for over 1200 years the only ones.
So?
That’s their opinion and it doesn’t surprise me one bit.
If the Catholic Church is correct, and I know it is. Catholics know Him in the most personal way through the Eucharist.
Assurance of eternal life.
As Paul says: "If we persevere to the end"
Relevant worship and teaching.
Honestly the word "relevant" scares the snot out of me. To many relevant means contemporized and innovative. Innovation leads to all sorts of bizarre novelties. Women's ordination, unity ceremonies,.....
A desire for the joy and comfort they witnessed in their Christian friends lives.
Just because something brings you joy or comfort does not mean that it is good or true. Some of the best antibiotics are very bitter and difficult to swallow.
So: stop asking me what the Church teaches when you already know what It teaches.
It wasn't until Trent in the sixteenth century that the Catholic church even dogmatically declared them canonical, so who was in error about those books before then? They were NOT recognized as inspired because they DID contain errors. So, it's not me who is pretending the Holy Spirit makes mistakes. Look to your OWN church for that. I am convinced it is because of the need to discredit the Bible and assert superiority over it that the Roman Catholic church did that. It's too bad you guys are stuck with having to defend the indefensible.
verga,
to comment on your comments... briefly, since they are beside my original point.
“If the Catholic Church is correct, and I know it is. Catholics know Him in the most personal way through the Eucharist.”
I realize catholics believe this. I’m sure you realize I do not. Many people want more than religious ritual. They find it elsewhere in a deep devotional relationship with the Father through salvation. In any case, these former catholics did not share your belief in this matter.
“As Paul says: “If we persevere to the end””
Outside the scope of this discussion, since the passage is more complex in what it states than just the part you quoted.
“Honestly the word “relevant” scares the snot out of me.”
Worship that is Biblically accurate and culturally relevant leads to worshippers and growth. Lose one and you are crippled. Lose both and your church shrinks away to nothing until it’s “lampstand” is removed.
“Just because something brings you joy or comfort does not mean that it is good or true. Some of the best antibiotics are very bitter and difficult to swallow.”
I don’t disagree with your statement. It is the extreme end, though. God created the joy of knowing and walking with Him. That it brings people joy and comfort is good. He also created peace, comfort, and deep satisfaction.
Now, apart from those brief comments and beyond whether you agree or disagree with them, those are the reasons that have been spoken to me by former Catholics who left and followed Christ.
I point them out as additions to your original list of two items.
In other words, they offered a personal interpretation nearly 1500 years after the Holy Spirit inspired that scripture?
Your “poor catechesis” is an example right there of why so many people leave the Church. Cold, clinical, intellectual, academic. “Catechesis.” What did Jesus do? He discipled. He taught. He fellowshipped. He led. He revealed. He showed mercy. Etc. Again, the Catholic Church isn’t as spiritually satisfying. It has Jesus, but crowds Him out for the most part.
On “the first Christians” I know some about the history of the Christian faith, and there are plenty of questions just to begin with that I’d look into before I’d accept your statement. I know St. Epiphanius of about the third century said Mary wasn’t to be honored and also removed a curtain and paid for a replacement because there was an image of Jesus or a saint on it.
I repeat, with more clarity this time: Luther, once a Catholic priest, became a heretic and a tool of Satan.
No, I grew up Lutheran. And once I accepted Jesus as my Savior in a mature way, without it being a parental expectation for me to get confirmed, I went to the Catholic Church. My hometown is over 77% Catholic (and then I think about 10% mainline Protestant) so most everyone I knew was Catholic. And until I was 30, I never knew one person whose faith was their life, except for Jehovah’s Witness I was friends with who mentioned to me that Easter bunnies had nothing to do with Christ’s Crucifixion. If I didn’t know that JW was a cult, I’d have talked more with her, because I had believed the Gospel but found no fellowship anywhere.
“Personal interpretation”?
Are you kidding? You guys are renown for it! Just look at how many protestant cults are out there!
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.