Posted on 08/26/2014 10:53:34 AM PDT by DariusBane
It seems to me that dragging those issues once dealt with into any current imbroglios is unnecessary, irrelevant, and underhanded.
Now, regarding the position of a counselor, the confidentiality of conversations and actions come under the ethic of privileged communication. Though a client or counselee makes the content public, the professional will not disclose his notes or records. That leaves one at a very bad disadvantage, for if the counselee distorts or makes wild insinuations as to the impropriety of the privacy, the professional still will neither confirm nor deny the bogus reports slandering him/her. To do otherwise only brings one to the level of the false accuser, which would be foolish. So one may have to just shut up and bear up.
Perhaps you are not aware of that dimension?
You simply do not understand what The Institute is about, and the reason is that you apparently have no close-up view of its operations.
IBLP is not a church, it was/is a business. It is a multi-million-dollar privately held corporation whose chief products are: (1) motivational seminars to present universal, non-optional Scriptural principles upon which to base a Christian approach to life; (2) exceptionally high quality and high value printed and visual materials created and produced at the headquarters in Oak Brook, Illinois; and (3) more recently, organizational materials for training children and older youth in social vehicles not contaminated by pagan or atheistic liberalism.
From what I gather from acquaintances involved in its operation, this business was created by Mr. Gothard, and I would suspect from the ground up under the brilliant counsel of Mr. Bill Gothard, Sr.
Bill's father was also an extremely experienced speaker and an expert organizer of color printing promotional products, and had the skills of guiding influential Christian men in supradenominational charitable efforts.
Bill Gothard, Sr. was for some time the Executive Director of Gideons International (which is an exacting position under the watch care of highly successful Christian business leaders), and also at another time a chief organizer and executive of the Christian Business Men's Committee (a similar organization composed of and reaching to the same kind of men), which was founded, I believe, in Chicago, and spread throughout the nation. He also served, I believe, on the Board of Pacific Gardens Mission, known internationally for its daily radio program "Unshackled."
The Institute of Basic Youth Conflicts (IBYC), later aptly retitled "Institute in Basic Life Principles," (IBLP) was not just a fluke of a random adventure into the business of supplying products unique to the Evangelical Christian market. It did not just unexpectedly appear out of nowhere. I've observed that it was/is carefully crafted in concept, purpose, structure, product, and financing for its selected market niche.
So, AFIK, Bill Gothard (Jr) was not ever going to be "fired" from his position in his privately held corporation, was he? I figure that he might have stepped down from the limelight for a while because of organized opposition and guided by his advisory board, but I doubt that he was "fired," eh?
In conjunction with this:
I think his materials are authored by 15 year old girls at minimum wage who work overtime but are not paid overtime. (DariusBane)
Actually, apparently you have not the spiritual training nor experience to see that, though Gothard was quite visionary and well-schooled in his theology, he is most certainly not the only contributor for the themes and authorship of the IBLP's products. I personally know that one of his principal contributors guided his own daughter in creating a well-thought-out and well-illustrated guide to natural childbirth as an athletic event, in which the husband and wife participate through conjointly conducted special exercises throughout her pregnancy to prepare them both for the moment of the child's arrival under the guidance of a midwife. This was copyrighted and published. This man was a college-trained and ordained pastor, excellently apt in developing illustrations of Scriptural principles, who for several years helped create, write, and reduce to visual slides and transparencies much of the material styled for Bill's presentation in his seminars. (As a side note, the seminars themselves came continually under examination for refinement and restructure, to avoid becoming stagnant.)
I also know that being the Dean of Women for the younger girls was the side-occupation of a very expert middle-aged (single female) educator, who also had oversight for the phases of the operation's schooling materials. In fact, later on she was married, and with her husband developed their own fully-featured Christian line of home-schooling system and materials.
There were also gifted artists and layout people who prepared published books and tapes on various topics, such as personal finances, social conduct, and time management, for example.
Moreover, the effort required computer information managers and operators, photographers, printers, and audio/video technicians, as well as a fleet of trucks and licensed professional OTR drivers. Mr. Gothard had a staff of such creative writers, artists, and technicians, who were provided salaries, homes for their families, and access to cooperating Christian physicians. The single young adult staff members were also provided rooms in private home-type environments.
Dismissing the production of such well-made materials as the casual effort of a fifteen-year-old child is so absurd that it demonstrates the ignorance of an intellectually- and spiritually-challenged detractor.
I wish I could tell you more about the Cape-dogs who keep on nipping at the hocks of a big water buffalo, until they finally ham-string the big fella and bring him down; then finally eat him. But I think the meaning for pint-sized predators is really clear here, isn't it?
And finally:
So I would not play with him, and figure he is a staffer, or former staffer or even legal council to BG. (DariusBane)
Yes, he might be a professional BG hitman. (fishtank)
What a foolish, self-complimenting presumption! Although I'm honored by your mistaken assumption as to any current connection with IBLP, I have acquaintances who worked there, who learned the DARSOFS Principles, and subsequently became quite successful in their educational and business efforts. My association has been so close with them through the years, that if any such errors had been going on in their time with IBLP, I would have known of it.
No, I'm just an ordinary fair-play-loving citizen of moderate means and mental maturity, who is not willing to just stand around and watch a couple of pea-shooter intellects attempt to bastardize a quite sincere and Scripturally-founded informational work that effectively and demonstrably promotes Biblical principles to Christian families in a lost and dying society.
You guys need to tone down your epithets and put your theses on a rational basis that will stand up in a courtroom under forensic tests.
And stop trolling for dupes.
Well, they left a bad taste in my mouth after we spent $75 and ordered materials that never came. And when, after a long while, I called up about them, I was told, there was some kind of mix up and the stuff was never printed up, the one girl told me I could get my money back. They did it for other people, too, who had ordered the same stuff and never got it either.
When I called up later, after not hearing anything, I got an obnoxious, belligerent woman who refused to do that. She claimed that they would send me the stuff and when I tried to clarify that it was the material I ordered, I never got a good answer that indicated it was. I told her I’d rather have my money back. She refused.
So I’m out $75 and never got the promised materials.
If BG is as innocent as you say, then he would have dragged all these girls into court for a nice libel case. That he has not... Discovery phase would be very nasty I expect.
Bill Gothard was caught by Gary Smalley in “Bill’s Cabin” bouncing a secretary clad in a thin nightgown on his knee.
Excuse me, but there is a long distance between affirming that someone is deemedinnocent, as comparing to flatly proclaiming that a person is guilty based solely on hearsay. The difference is called slander.
That is a burden that every psychiatrist, clinical psychologist, professional counselor, lawyer, priest, and/or pastor has to bear from detractors, and which agitators love to heap on them, taking advantage of their refusal to betray professional confidences even under oath.
You might indeed find that the accusers confidences, if exposed, would be far more embarrassing and degrading than those of the counselor about whom they complain.
You need to give up this passionate stirring up someone else's slime, and look to your own first. And this is a good time to do it, considering the 49 commandments of Christ (click here) as applied to your style of "loving your neighbor." You yourself seem to want liberty to condemn, without being held accountable for it by others. Clearly, you're not a Constitutionalist, are you?
Oh, yeah? You were there? And Gary descibed how and why he was there? And was the sequence initiated by Gary, Bill, or the babe? And the "secretary" was complaining about it? and what does "caughty" mean? Gary was out hunting for indecencies?etc., etc. etc. There are a lot of questions unasked and unanswered here, and you present this because you want me to think ill of someone else based on your say-so? I'm beginning to feel contaminated just by the tactics you are using --
mistyped “caught” —
From: [Gary Smalley’s email address redacted]
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 6:49 PM
To: [Tony’s email address redacted]
Subject: Re: Disqualifications of Teachers, James 3:1
Tony,
I can now see why he is nervous about the “fondling and patting” statement on Wikipedia. I did see him with [name of secretary redacted] on his lap. She was in her thin night wear. And I told him the next day that if he continued, it could bring his ministry down. In those days, I was into protecting him from criticism. But today, it seems like everyone is going after him. I’m now glad that I didn’t do the curriculum with him.
Now I have to write him something. Lord give me wisdom.
Love, Gary
http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2014/05/bills-cabin-uncovering-sin/
False; the statements by all the victims and witnesses would have to be false. Bill Gothard may indeed be a public figure for purposes of the legal definition. In either case, with this many fundamentalist Christian accusers one might be advised to shut one's mouth rather than attack these many brethren in order to defend one so accused. The "Nuts 'n Sluts" defense is not going to work here and may leave the public with an indelible opinion of such a defender that invalidates any kind of ministry or profession such a one seeks to have, not to mention the judgment for damaging the Gospel by defending such a man. Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come! It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
This is the letter to BG from Gary Smalley that is referenced in Gary’s email to Tony:
Bill,
I think I found what you were speaking of the other night. Wikipedia…. “(Veinot et al. 2003, pp. 52-55) alleges that Gothard tried to cover up the scandal but “despite Gothard’s best efforts at containment…the story was reported in the Los Angeles Times.” In 1982 the Los Angeles Times also reported allegations that “Bill Gothard was seen by staff members patting and fondling women employees. Later, he admitted in staff meetings that these actions were ‘moral failures’ on his part.”
I am wondering how the current situation got started all over again after so many years? Are their (sic) pastors, Christian leaders or some of your followers investigating these allegations? It seems like so long ago, it amazes me.
And are these recent postings in Wikipedia? Sorry for all of the “dogings” that keep following you. You [taught] me that a leader is always being watched and held accountable for all his actions.
I think you know me well enough for me to say that my motives here are to try and bring glory to God from all of the “ashes” from the past.
Instead of me sending an email or letter to you sharing that “as far as I know from the girls I interviewed, according to them, Bill did not fondle any of them” But a more important question for me to ask you is, “what do you want as an end goal with Christian leaders and the body of Christ?” Is it just my opinion that you “didn’t fondle the girls?”
As I read the criticisms of you from many different Christian leaders, I wondered what your end objective is? Is it to add evidence that you didn’t touch any of the girls inappropriately? Remember I was one of the staff who saw [name of secretary redacted] sitting on your lap with her sheer night ware on. That alone was so inappropriate that a case could be made from just that one act I saw for you to take time away from ministry in order to be healed by God’s Spirit and renewed to purity. That one act would have taken Ted Haggard out of the ministry as his other actions did.
I am wondering what kind of legacy do you want to leave? What God has done through you is amazing, but you stumbled at times just like all of God’s leaders throughout history.
How do you want people to remember the steps you took after “failing” in your walk with God at times?
How can I help you reach your ultimate goals for your legacy????? Can we visit about this question the next time we talk on the phone or visit together? I would be willing to do that if the time is right in your life.
Thanks for entrusting this to me as a friend. God is faithful and able. It is He to whom I present this serious need and ask for His provisions.
Love,
Gary
These letters are posted on recoveringgrace.org with the permission of Smalley and Tony. Tony is a Staff member charged to investigate the latest round of sexual misconduct. Tony is working for the Board of Directors.
I am very sorry that these facts have come to light. Please face them squarly. This is not about me.
It is a 501 c 3 non profit religious. The people working called it a ministry. BG called it a ministry. Today their website calls it a ministry not a business.
you are partially right, some Catholic archdiocese handled it well, many did not....however NONE of the protty denominations handled it at all, and still haven't....that's the problem.
Catholics have enjoyed the bible for about 1,600 years longer than anyone else.....and they basically wrote it..compiled old testament books, edited and interpreted new testament writings, determined which were and were not inspired,....enjoy your bible, put back in the books that the prottys decided they didn't want and say thanks to the Catholics...without them, you would have no idea of what a bible is because there wouldn't be one...think about it!!
That's not true and there have been threads posted on FR to that effect.
All you have to do is read them and admit that they're true.
Plus to prove that, you need to be able to back up your claim. Show us ALL the abuse cases in non-Catholic denominations and prove to us that not one of them handled it correctly.
BG’s shenanigans were ignored for over 20 years.
And that was wrong when they did it, too.
It’s wrong when anyone does it.
However, my challenge stills holds for proof that no Prot denominations ever handled sex abuse claims correctly.
Ok got it.
That was the claim of another poster?
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