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“Alas, Alas for the Great City!” An Urgent Plea for Prayer at the New Year!
Archdiocese of Washington ^ | 12-30-14 | Msgr. Charles Pope

Posted on 12/31/2014 8:27:36 AM PST by Salvation

“Alas, Alas for the Great City!” An Urgent Plea for Prayer at the New Year!

By: Msgr. Charles Pope

Screen Shot 2014-10-20 at 8.14.38 AM

We are very close to the new year, 2015 AD. And most of us at the new year have it in mind to pray for the future year not only for ourselves, but also for our family, country, and culture. With that in mind, there is something of an admonition to us all that I would share from Scripture. For while we look to the new year with hope, we do well to soberly assess the warnings of God that are seemingly more applicable than ever. Above all we must pray so as to avoid the otherwise necessary chastisements of God and the inevitability of ruin at our own hand if we do not soon repent.

We have good reason to have concern for what we have come to call Western culture.  Our last century was nothing less than a blood bath of world wars, cold wars, killing fields, mass starvations, abortion, and euthanasia. It is conservatively estimated that 100 million were put to death for ideological purposes (e.g., in Hitler’s camps, Stalin’s mass starvations, Pol Pot’s killing fields, Mao’s camps, Rwanda’s genocide, the Balkan genocides). Add to this the war dead and the victims of abortion and the number easily reaches 200 million.

In the middle of that period in the West, we threw in many social revolutions: the sexual revolution, the revolution against authority, the widespread use of hallucinogenic drugs, radical feminism, abortion on demand, contraception, and no-fault divorce. The solitary boast of the tainted 1960s was the civil rights movement, largely granted to it by the 1950s.

It is no surprise then that Americans, still reeling from these selfish and egotistical revolutions, find that most baby boomers are now in various combinations of drug rehab, AA, SA, Overeaters Anonymous, or even jail. Add to this situation vast amounts of psychotherapy, psychotropic drugs, and a self-esteem-driven culture with endless distractions to keep the revolutionaries and their children sane. Then throw in large amounts of antibiotics to treat the sexually transmitted diseases … would someone please call in the exorcist?

We have sown the wind and we are reaping the whirlwind. Enter now the desperate confusion of the “rainbow,” a once beautiful sign of hope that now only bespeaks sexual confusion of a colossal degree. And let no heterosexual gloat until he ponders rampant fornication, easy divorce, abortion, and the disgraceful lack of self-control that has helped usher in the sex-is-just-about-pleasure-and-means-whatever-I-say-it-means culture. Confusion, from top to bottom!

So here we are in 2015. And if we have any sense and any faith at all, we need to fall on our knees and pray for miraculous conversion. I love this country and Western culture. I do not think anything finer has ever graced this globe. But we have become collectively corrupted. Our freedom has become licentiousness; our sense of human dignity has been debased; our comforts have made us lazy and inimical to the Cross and to discipline.

And thus we do well to heed God’s warnings of old to other cultures that had become similarly corrupted.

A little over a week ago, as we wrapped up Advent, Isaiah uttered a warning to a pompous and self-secure empire (Babylon) that its might and power, its wealth and poise, were soon to come to an end. Of special mention was the scorn that God had for Babylon’s arrogant presumption that she would never fall or suffer loss and that her power would be forever. And yet too often this same arrogance besets us today. Listen to what God says to ancient Babylon at the zenith of her power:

Come down, sit in the dust, O virgin daughter Babylon; Sit on the ground, dethroned, O daughter of the Chaldeans. No longer shall you be called dainty and delicate. I will take vengeance, I will yield to no entreaty … Go into darkness and sit in silence, No longer shall you be called sovereign mistress of kingdoms …

Now hear this, voluptuous one, enthroned securely, Saying to yourself, “I, and no one else! I shall never be a widow, or suffer the loss of my children”—Both these things shall come to you suddenly, in a single day: Complete bereavement and widowhood shall come upon you For your many sorceries and the great number of your spells; Because you felt secure in your wickedness, and said, “No one sees me.”

Your wisdom and your knowledge led you astray, And you said to yourself, “I, and no one else!” But upon you shall come evil you will not know how to predict; Disaster shall befall you which you cannot allay. Suddenly there shall come upon you ruin which you will not expect (Isaiah 47: 1-15 selected).

Be soberly attentive, dear reader, and pray. For it is hard to read words like these and not see how they apply precisely to an age like ours! And before you exultantly say, “Bring it on!” please consider how instantly different our lives would be. Are you really ready for a world with no electricity, no Internet, and no central government with a Bill of Rights? Are you ready to live without roads, running water, and trash collection? Repentance is a far better solution. So pray for a miracle!

What was (is) Babylon? At one level, it is an historical nation-state at the time of the ancient Jews. There were others: Egypt, Assyria, Medo-Persia, and later Greece and Rome. But all these powers, though real historical places, also symbolized the world and all its glories arrayed against God and His kingdom.

  1. Egypt with its power, its fleshpots, and its leeks and onions was something the ancient Jews were always pining after. Abram ran there during a drought instead of trusting God to sustain him in the Holy Land. When Moses led the people out, they were always looking back, forgetting the slavery and remembering the fleshpots. They loved the world and trusted it more than God.
  2. In their fear against invaders, the Jews were ever succumbing to the temptation to make alliances with Assyria and Egypt (i.e., with the world and its power). “Trusting God is too risky. Let’s trust in Egypt or Assyria. Let’s trust in the world to come through for us.”
  3. In Babylonian exile, the Jews left, singing that they would never forget Jerusalem. But after 8o years in Babylon (a symbol of the world and its empires) most had no interest in returning to the Promised Land (a symbol of Heaven) when they were allowed to do so. They preferred Babylon and its hanging gardens to God’s kingdom. Only a small number returned. “Why should I go back to Israel? I have a pretty nice little jewelry shop I run here in Babylon on the corner of Tigris and Euphrates Avenues …”

And thus places like Babylon, Egypt, Sodom, Assyria, and later Greece and Rome, were not just city-states; they were symbols of the world arrayed against God and vying for that place in our heart that belongs to Him. The prophets often accused Jerusalem herself of having become Sodom, Egypt, and Babylon.

But no kingdom of this world can or will stand. In the age of the Church, and even prior to that in the Old Testament period of the Church, kingdoms came and went. Nations rose and fell. Empires emerged and collapsed. Where is Nimrod now? Where is Pharaoh Necho? Where are Cyrus the Persian, Alexander the Great, Caesar Nero, Napoleon, Stalin, and Chairman Mao?

But what of us? All those ancient kingdoms fell not merely because their time was up, but because of sin and the collapse that pride and sin bring. And as for us, how can a nation or culture stand that is increasingly permeated by pride, godlessness, corruption, fornication, abortion, sexual confusion, families in crisis, lack of sexual self-control, gluttony, drug use, alcoholism, rampant pornography, and ridicule of authority, tradition, and faith?

Consider a similar passage from the Book of Revelation (Chapter 18) warning the faithful about “Babylon.” (By 90 AD Babylon was actually long gone. Thus “Babylon” here is a symbol for the world and its tendency to fall into corruption.) John was saying that the “Great City” (Jerusalem – the great city which is allegorically called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified – Rev 11:8) had become Babylon. And he develops this theme in Revelation 18. Sadly, by 70 AD, having been given 40 years to repent, Jerusalem was sacked, burned, and utterly destroyed just as this prophecy had warned.

Have America and the West become like Babylon? Does the chilling judgment that came on Jerusalem and many other ancient cultures now apply to us? It would seem so unless repentance comes quickly. Hear and heed the warning given to ancient Jerusalem (which had become like Babylon) on this eve of the new year. Babylon is

I. Dominated by Demons - The text says,  After this I saw another angel coming down from heaven, having great authority; and the earth was made bright with his splendor. And he called out with a mighty voice, “Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great!  It has become a dwelling place of demons,  a haunt of every foul spirit,  a haunt of every foul and hateful bird; for all nations have drunk the wine of her impure passion,  and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her,  and the merchants of the earth have grown rich with the wealth of her wantonness.” Then I heard another voice from heaven saying,  “Come out of her, my people,  lest you take part in her sins,  lest you share in her plagues; for her sins are heaped high as heaven,  and God has remembered her iniquities. Render to her as she herself has rendered,  and repay her double for her deeds;  mix a double draught for her in the cup she mixed (Rev 18:1-6).

And as ancient Jerusalem was said to have the abomination of desolation (Mat 24:15), so too has our age embraced and even celebrated many abominations: abortion, fornication, homosexual acts, and the greed that becomes injustice to the poor. Scripture speaks of four sins that cry out to Heaven for vengeance: murder (Gn 4:10), homosexual acts (acts of sodomy)  (Gn 17:20-21), oppression of the poor (Ex 2:23), and defrauding workers of their just wages (Jas 5:4). There are also sins against the Holy Spirit, sins that harden a soul by rejecting the Holy Spirit. Six sins are in this category: despair, presumption, envy, obstinacy in sin, final impenitence, and deliberate resistance to the known truth.

Welcome to America after the social revolution. Pre-revolution America (prior to 1968) was no paradise, but there was more of a sense of basic right and wrong. Now everything is up for debate, and what used to slink around in back alleys now parades down Main Street in broad daylight.

To all this demonic influence, celebration of depravity, and excessive passion comes the plea, “Come out of here, my people!” Otherwise we will share in Babylon’s punishment. Make no compromises with this modern age, which has become the dwelling place of demons. Celebrating its secularism, our age, in rejecting God, has delivered itself to the machination of demons and all sort of human foolishness.

Stay sober, my friends, and see this age for what it is becoming: the dwelling place of demons, the haunt of every foul spirit, impure passion, and wanton desire. Have custody of your eyes and guard your heart!

II. Defiant in Depravity –   As she glorified herself and played the wanton,  so give her a like measure of torment and mourning.  Since in her heart she says, ‘A queen I sit,  I am no widow, mourning I shall never see’  (Rev 18:7).  

Yes, no matter how high the body count rises from abortion, from the broken lives of children raised without fathers, from exposure to pornography, from the celebration of greed and whatever is base or decadent—the modern West is too drunk to notice the harm she inflicts on herself. 70 million abortions, more than half of children raised in fatherless homes and in chaos … never mind all that! We are liberated. We will do as we please. We will not be told what to do!

And thus defiance and even the celebration of what is wicked and cries to heaven for vengeance continues apace. Despite all sorts statistics that say we are in real trouble, most go on calling “good” or “no big deal” what God calls sin. But God will not be mocked and ultimately we cannot avoid the consequences of our increasing depravity. At some point, God will have to end it if we do not repent.

Sadly, our defiance makes it seem unlikely that we will repent.

III. Destined for Destruction - So shall her plagues come in a single day,  pestilence and mourning and famine,  and she shall be burned with fire;  for mighty is the Lord God who judges her … Alas, alas, for the great city where all who had ships at sea grew rich by her wealth!  In one hour she has been laid waste. Rejoice over her, O heaven, O saints and apostles and prophets, for God has given judgment for you against her!” Then a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying, “So shall Babylon the great city be thrown down with violence, and shall be found no more; and the sound of harpers and minstrels, of flute players and trumpeters, shall be heard in thee no more; and a craftsman of any craft shall be found in thee no more; and the sound of the millstone shall be heard in thee no more; and the light of a lamp shall shine in thee no more;  and the voice of bridegroom and bride  shall be heard in thee no more;  for thy merchants were the great men of the earth,  and all nations were deceived by thy sorcery. And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints,  and of all who have been slain on earth” (Rev 18:8, 19-24).

Jerusalem, the great city, the holy city, was utterly destroyed. 1.2 million Jewish people lost their lives in the conflagration. Jerusalem was burned, and when the Romans were finished, not one stone was left on another. Jesus had warned of this day in the Mt. Olivet discourses  (Mark 13Matthew 24Luke 21) and had wept over Jerusalem: O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, killing the prophets and stoning those who are sent to you! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not! Behold, your house is forsaken and desolate (Matt 23:37-38).

And what of us? Will we repent? Or will we be defiant and destined for destruction? Pray for America. Pray for the West. Pray for our culture, which still has great goodness but has succumbed to much corruption.

IV. Depressing in Desolation – And the kings of the earth, who committed fornication and were wanton with her, will weep and wail over her when they see the smoke of her burning; they will stand far off, in fear of her torment, and say, “Alas! alas! thou great city, thou mighty city, Babylon!  In one hour has thy judgment come.” And the merchants of the earth weep and mourn for her, since no one buys their cargo any more, cargo of gold, silver, jewels and pearls, fine linen, purple, silk and scarlet, all kinds of scented wood, all articles of ivory, all articles of costly wood, bronze, iron and marble, cinnamon, spice, incense, myrrh, frankincense, wine, oil, fine flour and wheat, cattle and sheep, horses and chariots, and slaves, that is, human souls. “The fruit for which thy soul longed has gone from thee, and all thy dainties and thy splendor are lost to thee, never to be found again!” The merchants of these wares, who gained wealth from her, will stand far off, in fear of her torment, weeping and mourning aloud, “Alas, alas, for the great city that was clothed in fine linen, in purple and scarlet, bedecked with gold, with jewels, and with pearls! In one hour all this wealth has been laid waste.” And all shipmasters and seafaring men, sailors and all whose trade is on the sea, stood far off and cried out as they saw the smoke of her burning, “What city was like the great city?” And they threw dust on their heads, as they wept and mourned, crying out,  “Alas, alas, for the great city” (Rev 18:9-19).

Here’s the bottom line: Satan sails a sinking ship. Nothing of this world can stand except on the firm foundation of Christ and His Church. Too many Christians are in a compromised state with a sinful world. Scripture says, For here we have no lasting city, but we seek the city which is to come. Through him then let us continually offer up a sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of lips that acknowledge his name. Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God (Heb 13:15-16).

In this new year, pray for our Western world as never before. We have brought great gifts to the world through our marriage with Christ. But now, acting like an angry divorcée, we have forsaken Him and turned to great wickedness. But God still seeks us and wants to renew His covenant with us.

Pray. And before you exultantly say, “Bring on the destruction!” please consider that this is no “made-for-TV movie.” Think about how instantly different our lives would be! Please consider the bloodshed and loss of life. Again, would you be ready for a world with no electricity, no Internet, and no central government with a Bill of Rights? Are you ready to live without roads, running water, and trash collection? Repentance is a far better solution. So pray for a miracle! It doesn’t have to end in destruction. Jerusalem could have repented, and we still can.

The Church will survive. God’s will shall prevail. But what of our beloved country and the West? That is up to us.

So pray at this dawn of the new year. Pray a lot. Only then will it be a “Happy New Year!”

For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world>



TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; History; Prayer; Theology
KEYWORDS: 2015; babylon; catholic; demons; happynewyear; msgrcharlespope; newyear; prayer; prophecy; satan; usa
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To: Boogieman

The destruction of Babylon is not only prophesied in Revelation, see for example Isaiah 13. The prophecies about Babylon seem to include a number of Babylon types, although the final calamitous destruction will take place once, to the “real” Babylon. I think he is saying that Jerusalem was a type of Babylon and therefore suffered a type of destruction that it was in no way the destruction that will be suffered by the real Babylon. But his point, how Jerusalem can be considered a type of Babylon, is very interesting and scripturally sound.


41 posted on 12/31/2014 10:28:03 AM PST by Former Fetus (Saved by grace through faith)
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To: Boogieman

“John was saying that the “Great City” (Jerusalem – the great city which is allegorically called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified – Rev 11:8) had become Babylon. And he develops this theme in Revelation 18.”


Yes but the merchants of the earth have not gotten rich off of the abundance of Jerusalem`s delicies.

Jerusalem was not a power of any kind for almost two thousand years

Rev 17 describes the great whore as one which sits upon many waters

2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

Rome is the only power over all that could fit the description because it has and have had power over the entire world, over many waters which are nations.


42 posted on 12/31/2014 10:35:50 AM PST by ravenwolf
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To: Salvation

Sorry that you did not see the warning in the video.


Ok, I got that part, I just thought there might be more and that I just did not know how to find it.


43 posted on 12/31/2014 10:43:53 AM PST by ravenwolf
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To: ravenwolf; Boogieman

I think some posters are getting confused between types of Babylon and the actual Babylon. Big difference! For example, we know that Isaac was a type of Christ (like carrying the wood for his sacrifice up the mountain) but we would never consider trying to apply Isa. 53 to him! Same thing here. The old Babylon, Jerusalem, probably Rome... those are types of Babylon. Why try to make all the prophecies of Babylon fit those types? They won’t, just like Isa 53 does not fit Isaac. The point of the article was that, just like ancient Babylon and Jerusalem, the US (represented by NYC) is a type of Babylon. It asks us to pray for the US, that repentance will prevent God’s judgment just like repentance prevented Nineveh’s judgment.


44 posted on 12/31/2014 10:53:02 AM PST by Former Fetus (Saved by grace through faith)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Saying that a prophecy that is tied with the return of Christ, at the end of days, has already been fulfilled is preterism. It may not be “full preterism”, but it is preterism nonetheless.


45 posted on 12/31/2014 11:17:07 AM PST by Boogieman
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To: Salvation

Yes, I get that he is drawing a comparison to the many different pagan kingdoms/empires in the Bible and the U.S. I don’t have a problem with that.

But, he then takes a specific prophecy, about a specific place (Babylon the Great), which the Bible clearly states is a city, interpreting itself so that we don’t have to. He correctly identifies the city that prophecy refers to, but he incorrectly places the fulfillment in time.


46 posted on 12/31/2014 11:26:30 AM PST by Boogieman
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To: Boogieman
Some of Jesus' prophecies in the four Gospels, and some of John's prophecies in Revelation, have already been fulfilled at least partially. The destruction of the Temple is one undeniable example. But perhaps some think the Jews are going to build another Temple and have that one destroyed, too.
47 posted on 12/31/2014 11:31:58 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o (“The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” - Flannery O'Connor)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

That’s an entirely different paragraph, and not the one I am taking issue with. This is the problematic one:

“Consider a similar passage from the Book of Revelation (Chapter 18) warning the faithful about “Babylon.” (By 90 AD Babylon was actually long gone. Thus “Babylon” here is a symbol for the world and its tendency to fall into corruption.) John was saying that the “Great City” (Jerusalem – the great city which is allegorically called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified – Rev 11:8) had become Babylon. And he develops this theme in Revelation 18. Sadly, by 70 AD, having been given 40 years to repent, Jerusalem was sacked, burned, and utterly destroyed just as this prophecy had warned.”

He says “as this prophecy had warned”. Well, what prophecy? He only refers to two passages from the Bible in this paragraph (Rev. Chapter 18, and Rev. 11:8), so the prophecy he means is one of those, and because he refers to a warning, it surely is Rev 18, as that contains this warning:

“4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.”

When this was written, Jerusalem had already been destroyed in 70 AD. So this prophecy is not equivalent to the Olivet discourse, it must refer to future events.


48 posted on 12/31/2014 11:37:23 AM PST by Boogieman
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To: Boogieman
I see what you're saying there. You're correct: by, say, ~90 AD, by the time Revelation was written, not only was the literal "Babylon" long gone, but Jerusalem was gone, gone, gone as well.

But if you want to reference prophecies made ~40 years before, as Msgr. Pope says, you'd have to look to the Gospels.

That paragraph leaves it unclear which set of prophecies he's talking about. He says "Revelation" but he's --- it seems to me --- referring to the Gospels.

49 posted on 12/31/2014 11:44:12 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o (“The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” - Flannery O'Connor)
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To: Former Fetus

“The destruction of Babylon is not only prophesied in Revelation...”

The destruction of “Babylon the Great” is what Revelation talks about, and it makes it pretty clear that it is not talking about the Babylon in Mesopotamia. There are prophecies of the destruction of actual Babylon in the Old Testament, but those were already fulfilled when Revelation was written. That destruction was permanent. There was no Babylon during John’s day, and there still is no Babylon today. Saddam wanted to rebuild it, but he just threw up a tourist attraction in a different spot. Babylon itself is still an uninhabited pile of ruins.

“But his point, how Jerusalem can be considered a type of Babylon, is very interesting and scripturally sound.”

Well, it’s referring to Jerusalem under the name “Babylon the Great”, but actually making prophetic statements that must apply to a real city, and the real inhabitants thereof, so it seems to be a “code word” for the real city of Jerusalem. This version of Jerusalem, the earthly one, is contrasted in Revelation with the heavenly, or “New Jerusalem”, just as the faithful bride of Christ (the church) is contrasted with the unfaithful, adulterous harlot. Go search around the Old Testament for prophecies about adulterous harlots and you may be surprised who God uses that symbol for.


50 posted on 12/31/2014 11:59:00 AM PST by Boogieman
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Yeah, he may have just phrased it badly, but if so, it’s unfortunate, because the preterists do interpret those prophecies the way that he makes it appear he is doing. I hope he didn’t intend to support that kind of interpretation.


51 posted on 12/31/2014 12:08:38 PM PST by Boogieman
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To: ravenwolf

“Yes but the merchants of the earth have not gotten rich off of the abundance of Jerusalem`s delicies.”

No, but I think you should say “have not yet”. We don’t know that they will not have by the time the prophecy is fulfilled, especially because the narrative of Revelation seems to suggest that Jerusalem will be a sort of capitol for the Beast’s operation.

“Rome is the only power over all that could fit the description because it has and have had power over the entire world, over many waters which are nations.”

Rome had power in the past, but not today, and there is no real indication that it will have any power in the future. Just as Rome once had power, so once did Athens, or Persepolis, or Cairo, so why is Rome special?

Besides, you can possibly interpret Rome to fulfill a small part of the description, but it cannot possibly fulfill this part:

“24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.” Rev. 18:24

Rome didn’t kill the prophets. Who did? Well, Jesus answered that for us (speaking to the Pharisees):

“47 Woe unto you! for ye build the sepulchres of the prophets, and your fathers killed them.

48 Truly ye bear witness that ye allow the deeds of your fathers: for they indeed killed them, and ye build their sepulchres.

49 Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute:

50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation;

51 From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation.”

So, Jesus told us who was responsible for the blood of the prophets, and who it would be required of. Thus, the harlot must refer to the same, lest we call Jesus a liar.


52 posted on 12/31/2014 12:20:38 PM PST by Boogieman
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To: Former Fetus

Why try to make all the prophecies of Babylon fit those types?


You make a good point, but i believe there is much to suppose that it could be religion.

For instance being drunk on the blood of the saints, and the golden cup.

What is the blood of the saints?

The blood of the saints could be nothing but the blood of Jesus, which is represented by the wine which is drink from the golden cup.

John wondered with great admiration, it must have been something he thought was great until he was told the real meaning.

Why would a Christian, especially John have to be told to come out of her in rev 18:4 if it had nothing except a secular meaning?

Rev 18
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.


53 posted on 12/31/2014 12:27:34 PM PST by ravenwolf
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To: Salvation
Let's focus together and pray!

From famine and war, deliver us.

From nuclear war, from incalculable self-destruction, from every kind of war, deliver us.

From sins against the life of man from its very beginning, deliver us.

From hatred and from the demeaning of the dignity of the children of God, deliver us.

From every kind of injustice in the life of society, both national and international, deliver us.

From readiness to trample on the commandments of God, deliver us.

From attempts to stifle in human hearts the very truth of God, deliver us.

From the loss of awareness of good and evil, deliver us.

From sins against the Holy Spirit, deliver us, deliver us.

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000626_message-fatima_en.html

54 posted on 12/31/2014 12:31:19 PM PST by Grateful2God (And Mary kept all these things, and pondered them in her heart.)
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To: ravenwolf

“What is the blood of the saints?

The blood of the saints could be nothing but the blood of Jesus, which is represented by the wine which is drink from the golden cup.”

Jesus is the Son of God, not a saint, and certainly not multiple saints. This idea of “blood of the saints” comes from the Old Testament. Go back to the story of Cain & Abel: Abel’s blood cried out to God from the ground, and then God told us:

“6 Whoso sheddeth man’s blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.” Gen 9:6

It is a symbol that is used throughout the Bible to refer to victims of murder that God is going to wreak vengeance for. Jesus accused the Pharisees of being accountable for the blood of the prophets, just as Cain was accountable for the blood of Abel, and just as God tells us the harlot is accountable for the blood of all the prophets and saints.


55 posted on 12/31/2014 12:46:15 PM PST by Boogieman
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To: Boogieman

What about the blood of the Good Thief crucified with Jesus?

Jesus told him “Today you will be with me in paradise.”

That “paradise” was a waiting place for all the people before Jesus’ crucifixion — they were waiting for Jesus to open up heaven by being the First One to Enter Heaven.


56 posted on 12/31/2014 12:50:06 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Grateful2God

Great prayer.


57 posted on 12/31/2014 12:50:41 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Boogieman

50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation;


Yes it was required of that generation, i believe that was fulfilled, you do make a good point though.

Rome had power in the past, but not today,>>>>>>

Not Rome itself.

The way i see it up until just the last very few years the Churches combined has had more power than any other power,
If the protestants which came from the Catholic Church gave their power to the mother Church there would be no power their equal

“24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.” Rev. 18:24 >>>>>

I can not explain that which is the only thing i see that might point to Israel.

The whore being drunken on the blood of the saints could not be fulfilled by Jerusalem.

The golden cup and the blood of the saints could only be referring to the blood of Jesus, the saints drink wine which represented the blood of Jesus.


58 posted on 12/31/2014 1:03:23 PM PST by ravenwolf
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To: Salvation

“What about the blood of the Good Thief crucified with Jesus?”

The thief was justly executed though, for actual crimes he committed (I have to assume of course). We say he is “good”, but only because he was washed cleaned by the blood of Christ, through faith. He certainly was not “good” before that, and so I doubt God considers his execution a murder that must be answered for.

This reminds me of an exchange in “Oh Brother Where Art Thou”, where one of the fugitive prisoners thinks that, since they just got baptized, the authorities shouldn’t be chasing them anymore:

Pete: “The preacher said it absolved us.”

Everett: “For him, not for the law! I’m surprised at you, Pete. Hell, I gave you credit for more brains than Delmar.”

Delmar: “But there were witnesses, saw us redeemed!”

Everett: “That’s not the issue, Delmar. Even if it did put you square with the Lord, the State of Mississippi is more hardnosed.”


59 posted on 12/31/2014 1:03:29 PM PST by Boogieman
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To: Boogieman

Jesus is the Son of God, not a saint,


It don`t matter, it could still be called the blood of the saints, Jesus did not drink his own blood, he drink wine.

He told his Apostles to do this in remembrance of him.

The Catholics say that the wine actually turns into Christ`s blood so could be called the blood of the saints since they say that the apostles also believed that the wine actually turned into blood.

It has nothing to do with actual blood, it has to do with being drunk on false doctrine.


60 posted on 12/31/2014 1:12:05 PM PST by ravenwolf
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