12 Claims Every Catholic Should Be Able to Answer; Claim 2

CERC ^ | Deal Hudson

[NYer]

Freedom of speech is a great thing. Unfortunately, it comes at an unavoidable price: When citizens are free to say what they want, theyll sometimes use that freedom to say some pretty silly things. And thats the case with the 12 claims were about to cover.

Some of them are made over and over, others are rare. Either way, while the proponents of these errors are free to promote them, we as Catholics have a duty to respond.

2.  "Christianity is no better than any other faith. All religions lead to God."

If you haven't heard this one a dozen times, you don't get out much. Sadly enough, the person making this claim is often himself a Christian (at least, in name).

The problems with this view are pretty straightforward. Christianity makes a series of claims about God and man: That Jesus of Nazareth was God Himself, and that he died and was resurrected — all so that we might be free from our sins. Every other religion in the world denies each of these points. So, if Christianity is correct, then it speaks a vital truth to the world — a truth that all other religions reject.

This alone makes Christianity unique.

But it doesn't end there. Recall Jesus' statement in John's Gospel:

"I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me." In Christianity, we have God's full revelation to humanity. It's true that all religions contain some measure of truth — the amount varying with the religion. Nevertheless, if we earnestly want to follow and worship God, shouldn't we do it in the way He prescribed?

If Jesus is indeed God, then only Christianity contains the fullness of this truth.

[verga]

Please make these caucus thread from now on, I don’t want to read the comments of the ignorant and uniformed.

[tomsbartoo]

I understand your point. but you have to understand that my comment, respectfully, was intended to point out the truth to Catholics, not Protestants.

But just so we are clear, when I say that this was the “Protestantization” of the Mass, I intended that to mean that where the Tridentine Mass has always been clearly understood (up until Vatican II) as a re-creation of the Sacrifice on the Cross (the resurrection was never mentioned), the Protestant version of the Mass (Thomas Cranmer) rejected the sacrificial aspect of the Mass. In order to placate this thinking, the Paul VI added in the part about the resurrection, and hence, create anew the so-called Pascal Mystery. Now we have a “Eucharistic Celebration”.

Unquestionably Jesus must “ever live”, but to complete your argument (which I respectfully disagree), you might as well throw in the Ascension as well, since that is where He went. The Catholic Holy Sacrifice of the Mass was not established to satisfy the teaching of Luther, Cranmer or any other Protestant; it was established to fulfill what Jesus asked us to do, namely “Do This in Remembrance of Me”. He was speaking about the Bloody Sacrifice that He was about to endure, and He was asking us to witness the unbloodied re-creation of that Sacrifice.

[ravenwolf]

Then there is within all that, various levels. We are all on a journey, a pilgrimage here on this earth and we are awaiting the day when after our physical death we go to meet the Lord.

---

True.

[NYer]

The writer uses the word “Christianity” in his premise suggesting that all Christians are of the same belief. That is a false premise.

I believe he is speaking in general terms - christianity vs other religions, not specifically the Catholic Church. Full Unity , is the work of the Holy Spirit.

Christianity makes a series of claims about God and man: That Jesus of Nazareth was God Himself, and that he died and was resurrected — all so that we might be free from our sins. Every other religion in the world denies each of these points. So, if Christianity is correct, then it speaks a vital truth to the world — a truth that all other religions reject.

[Iscool]

If you want to discuss it would be helpful to know where you are coming from. We are Catholic Christians. What are you?

Kinda like African Americans eh??? There's no such thing as Catholic Christians...

[tomsbartoo]

Well said!

But I might only add that I’m afraid some of these “learned” that you made mention included the likes of Yves Congar; Augustine Bea; Hans Kung; John Courtney Murray; Karl Rahner; Henri de Lubac, to name just a few of the academicians that gave us the Second Vatican Council.

[defconw]

As a Sister told me, there is such a thing as being to smart for ones own good. :) So yes, I get it. I try to keep the academic balanced with the spiritual. I have read Rahner and de Lubac and Kung. I can't say that I enjoyed reading them at all. They lack joy. I would rather read someone like Scott Hahn. You sense the “awe” with him.

[tomsbartoo]

Respectfully, I’m not sure I’m properly understanding what you have said. But I think you are saying that some of the Protestant religions profess some things that are truthful. Perhaps they do. But they also profess many things that are absolutely false. Indeed, Martin Luther certainly professed those same truths that you’ve just articulated. He was a Christian until the day he died and the Church excommunicated him as a heretic. The Orthodox religions also profess those same truths as well, and the Catholic Church and those religions have been struggling with their differences for over 1000 years..

The issue as a Catholic, should be something other than trying to find how other, heretical religions are actually pretty good religions too. That’s modernism. The Church used to teach that there is only one true religion––the Roman Catholic religion. Certainly neither you nor the writer would deny that. Why should any Catholic be concerned about the pluses and minuses of “Christianity” vs other non-Christian religions? That may be an interesting academic discussion, but it is one that might better be had in a secular theology class. The purpose of his writing was to tell Catholics what they should know.

[avenir]

Thank you for your explanation. Hope your day is a good one!

[NYer]

I think you are saying that some of the Protestant religions profess some things that are truthful.

Correct in that they ALL acknowledge Jesus Christ as Savior. The popes have addressed the need for unity as being the work of the Holy Spirit. Perhaps a good example of this is the recent conversion of Ulf Edman. Megachurch pastor Ulf Ekman: ‘We need what the Lord has given to the Catholic Church to live fully as Christians’, or Pentecostal minister Alex Jones Pastor and Flock Convert to Catholicism

The Church used to teach that there is only one true religion––the Roman Catholic religion.

Actually, there is no such thing as the "Roman Catholic religion". There is a Catholic Church which is a communion of 22 Churches, 21 of which are Eastern and 1 is Western. The Western Church, known officially as the Latin Church, is the largest of the Catholic Churches. It is immediately subject to the Roman Pontiff as Patriarch of the West. The Eastern Catholic Churches are each led by a Patriarch, Major Archbishop, or Metropolitan, who governs their Church together with a synod of bishops. Through the Congregation for Oriental Churches, the Roman Pontiff works to assure the health and well-being of the Eastern Catholic Churches. The "Catholic Church" breathes with both lungs.

[Iscool]

Yes, Jesus Christ did die for our sins, but notice his inclusion of the phrase “and was resurrected”. That was never part of Catholic belief before Vatican II. That is the so-called “Pascal Mystery” language that was added with the Novus Ordo Mass. Before the N.O., Catholics were taught that the “Holy Sacrifice of the Mass” (now the “Eucharistic Celebration”) was a re-creation of Calvary, and that His death on the Cross alone sufficed as expiation for our sins. But with the Protestanized version we are now taught to believe that the Crucifixion and death of Our Dear Lord Jesus Christ was not enough––but that it was necessary for Jesus to be resurrected as well.

1Co 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

Your religion lied to you...Jesus had to have been raised without which you would be wallowing in your sins even if you participated in your mass 16 hours a day...

1Pe 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel (death, burial, resurrection) preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

[metmom]

Just wow.

What hypocrisy.

You demand to know other’s group identity so you can *know where they’re coming from* and yet fight like a cornered animal about the same standard being applied to you....

Could any Catholic ever try for a little consistency and integrity?

[metmom]

YOUR pope kissing the koran. Fits right in with YOUR Catechism of the Catholic church.

From the Catechism of the Catholic church.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P29.HTM

841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."330

[metmom]

YOUR pope kissing the koran. Fits right in with YOUR Catechism of the Catholic church.

From the Catechism of the Catholic church.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P29.HTM

841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."330

So let's apply the group think concept so that we know exactly where Catholics are coming from.

This is from the official teachings of the Catholic church, which must be adhered to by faithful Catholics. There is no option about disagreeing with the CCC.

So applying group think concept, we now know where you're coming from.

Why to you believe that muslims worship the same God as the Catholics and they'll be in first place in the plan of salvation?

[CynicalBear]

It was a rather interesting reaction wasn’t it? I chuckled as I read it.

[ealgeone]

Now I am personally sick of your intrusion into every freaking thread that has the word Catholic in it. On the other hand it gives me an opportunity to feel superior.

Last time I checked this was a non-caucus thread and this is FREE REPUBLIC. So exactly why doesn't CB have a "right" to intrude where he feels like it?

You know what they say about the kitchen?

[tioga]

Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life. Praise, God.

[CynicalBear]

>>But with the Protestanized version we are now taught to believe that the Crucifixion and death of Our Dear Lord Jesus Christ was not enough––but that it was necessary for Jesus to be resurrected as well.<<

Protestanized (is there such a word?) version? There would have been no victory over death had there not been the resurrection. I had not realized that the Catholic Church had a reason for leaving Jesus dead on the cross. I thought it just a ruse by Satan but I'm now thinking the Catholic Church was knowingly complicit in the imagery.

[tioga]

Wow. Very well stated. I applaud you.

[MamaB]

Mary is dead, too, but y’all bring her up, plus dead so called saints all the time. Some are very, very critical of Protestants on here. If y’all do not want discussion, make it a caucus. This is a discussion forum so anyone can post.