Posted on 02/21/2015 7:50:13 AM PST by RnMomof7
We have often heard statements such as “War is hell” or “I went through hell.” These expressions are, of course, not taken literally. Rather, they reflect our tendency to use the word hell as a descriptive term for the most ghastly human experience possible. Yet no human experience in this world is actually comparable to hell. If we try to imagine the worst of all possible suffering in the here and now we have not yet stretched our imaginations to reach the dreadful reality of hell.
Hell is trivialized when it is used as a common curse word. To use the word lightly may be a halfhearted human attempt to take the concept lightly or to treat it in an amusing way. We tend to joke about things most frightening to us in a futile effort to declaw and defang them, reducing their threatening power.
There is no biblical concept more grim or terror-invoking than the idea of hell. It is so unpopular with us that few would give credence to it at all except that it comes to us from the teaching of Christ Himself.
Almost all the biblical teaching about hell comes from the lips of Jesus. It is this doctrine, perhaps more than any other, that strains even the Christian’s loyalty to the teaching of Christ. Modern Christians have pushed the limits of minimizing hell in an effort to sidestep or soften Jesus’ own teaching. The Bible describes hell as a place of outer darkness, a lake of fire, a place of weeping and gnashing of teeth, a place of eternal separation from the blessings of God, a prison, a place of torment where the worm doesn’t turn or die. These graphic images of eternal punishment provoke the question, should we take these descriptions literally or are they merely symbols?
I suspect they are symbols, but I find no relief in that. We must not think of them as being merely symbols. It is probable that the sinner in hell would prefer a literal lake of fire as his eternal abode to the reality of hell represented in the lake of fire image. If these images are indeed symbols, then we must conclude that the reality is worse than the symbol suggests. The function of symbols is to point beyond themselves to a higher or more intense state of actuality than the symbol itself can contain. That Jesus used the most awful symbols imaginable to describe hell is no comfort to those who see them simply as symbols.
A breath of relief is usually heard when someone declares, “Hell is a symbol for separation from God.” To be separated from God for eternity is no great threat to the impenitent person. The ungodly want nothing more than to be separated from God. Their problem in hell will not be separation from God, it will be the presence of God that will torment them. In hell, God will be present in the fullness of His divine wrath. He will be there to exercise His just punishment of the damned. They will know Him as an all-consuming fire.
No matter how we analyze the concept of hell it often sounds to us as a place of cruel and unusual punishment. If, however, we can take any comfort in the concept of hell, we can take it in the full assurance that there will be no cruelty there. It is impossible for God to be cruel. Cruelty involves inflicting a punishment that is more severe or harsh than the crime. Cruelty in this sense is unjust. God is incapable of inflicting an unjust punishment. The Judge of all the earth will surely do what is right. No innocent person will ever suffer at His hand.
Perhaps the most frightening aspect of hell is its eternality. People can endure the greatest agony if they know it will ultimately stop. In hell there is no such hope. The Bible clearly teaches that the punishment is eternal. The same word is used for both eternal life and eternal death. Punishment implies pain. Mere annihilation, which some have lobbied for, involves no pain. Jonathan Edwards, in preaching on Revelation 6:15-16 said, “Wicked men will hereafter earnestly wish to be turned to nothing and forever cease to be that they may escape the wrath of God.” (John H. Gerstner, Jonathan Edwards on Heaven and Hell [Orlando: Ligonier Ministries, 1991], 75.)
Hell, then, is an eternity before the righteous, ever-burning wrath of God, a suffering torment from which there is no escape and no relief. Understanding this is crucial to our drive to appreciate the work of Christ and to preach His gospel.
Summary
Biblical passages for reflection: Matthew 8:11-12, Mark 9:42-48, Luke 16:19-31, Jude 1:3-13, Revelation 20:11-15.
Lazarus would disagree with that. So would I as I died, left my body and then returned to my physical body. It’s the soul that really matters and nothing can destroy it, not even an atomic bomb exploded on one’s head. However, satan can shackle it for a long time!
What about the misguided souls of the aborted fetuses I encounter? They are not demons or even recruited by satan’s minions. They are just lost and often clinging to their mother. Very pure, but also very lost.
I respect what you are saying. And, I do believe the Bible is the word of God and accept Jesus as my Savior. I must reconcile my experiences with the Bible and have often found different meaning of scripture by meditating and praying for guidance when my experiences differ from my original Bible interpretation.
Please show from scripture that indicates the souls once having permanently left the body can be saved.
“Provide some Scripture to back up your claims.”
I mentioned in the original post that most of my statements are based upon actual experiences. Life has been interesting. I do read and study the Bible but do not get caught up in debating with people. My identity is as “His Servant” and He is the only one I need to please. However, I am human and I do make mistakes. If I learned from all of my mistakes I would be a genius!!!
I respect what other’s believe, even if my experience and interpretation differs from theirs. It is my desire that others pray for me to receive guidance when I stray from understanding and/or following His word.
Blessings
There is some strange stuff going on here.
“Provide some Scripture to back up your claims.”
If you are referring to Hebrews 9:27.... I had a problem with that one until I researched it in the lexicon. It is a true statement. My question to you is... If judgement comes when the Bridegroom arrives, what judgement are they speaking of at the time of death of the physical body?
I read people’s souls. They contain every memory of every experience that a soul ever experienced, even prior to entering the physical body in the womb. The so called judgement or life review people speak of at death is merely the conscious awareness of an individual expanding in reverse sequence through all the stored memories in the soul as it is no longer shackled to the the physical body. It really is that simple.
Many times I will encounter the spirits of wonderful people who have died and merely hang around for a while to consul the loved ones they left behind. They are going to Heaven, but just as Jesus said to His Disciples, “don’t touch Me as I have not risen yet.” They end up staying here for a while prior to passing over. The message they most often ask me to relay is that “All is ok.”
You are encountering demons who are lying to you.
There are no *misguided* or *lost* souls without a body wandering around out there somewhere.
You have no Scripture to even begin to support your assertions but appeal to *experience*.
Well, Scripture is TRUTH. Experience is experience and Satan can and will lie to you through it to deceive you.
You need to confess and repent of the deception you’ve been operating under and turn to JESUS only and trust HIM only for salvation.
Reading people’s souls is NOT a give of the Holy Spirit given to the church.
You are being lied to by Satan.
“Reading people’s souls is NOT a give of the Holy Spirit given to the church.”
It is one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit. It’s how Jesus knew the thoughts and memories of all who were around Him. It’s also how He did His healing. And Jesus was speaking the truth when He said to His Disciples, “The things that I do and more, you too shall do in my name.”
The Bible teaches us discernment of spirits and teaches us not to listen to those of satan. But is also give us guidance as to what to do with those that are clean or good spirits.
John 14:26 But the Comforter, even the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said unto you.
The only thing to describe what you are doing is Necromancy or Spiritism. It’s condemned by God.
Just a tiny bit weird, if you don’t mind me saying so. More science fiction than Christian, Buddy.
CB, you are correct sir, with maybe a touch of Hinduism thrown in, the so called spark of God in evrryone. This is occultic, and has no more Bible doctrine in it than the moon has cheese. I respect people's right to believe whatever they like. I just don't have to believe it myself.
This whole issue seems to be divided into 2 ‘extremes’.
1) Salvation by grace alone, not by works. There is LOTS of scripture to support this, case in point, see the Thief on the cross.
This position IN NO WAY says that one should not do good works or ‘twitch a muscle’. The point is that counting on good works to give you righteousness and a ticket to heaven is a LOSING proposition.
Being saved, possessing salvation produces a desire for good works. We do those because we Love Jesus, because we eant to have the love of Jesus show in our lives, NOT to get salvation from Him.
2) Salvation requires good works in addition to faith.
Personally, I dont see it. Salvation is by faith, not of works, lest anyone should boast.
I would say to people in this camp, WHAT are you trusting in to save you? Will you stand before God proudly showing all you have done for Him as the reason He should allow you into heaven?
That was the stance of the Pharisee looking at the publican.
Sola Christus.
There is not going to be company in Hell or the Lake of Fire to commiserate with. Just one’s self and the thought of rejecting God in Christ, and constant fiery pain so encompassing that there will no opportunity to put together a coherent philosophy denying it. IMHO.
Hmmmm...a thread that was opened July, 2010 and hasn’t been posted to since August of last year! Is this reminder from you on every thread RnMomof7 posts lately nothing more than spam or is it insincere needling? What’s the point?
A few thoughts...The passage says "Holy Spirit AND fire", not "Holy Spirit OR fire". In Acts chapter 1, we have the account of Jesus' words to His disciples before He ascends to heaven:
And in the next chapter of Acts, we read:
From the Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary:
“I respect what you are saying. And, I do believe the Bible is the word of God and accept Jesus as my Savior. I must reconcile my experiences with the Bible and have often found different meaning of scripture by meditating and praying for guidance when my experiences differ from my original Bible interpretation.”
T&R, I appreciate your honesty about your experiences. Sadly, they are unsound. Talking to the misguided souls of aborted fetuses? Building such a ministry on John 14 is an epic stretch.
Experience not backed by Scripture is the breeding ground of many an error. “The just shall live by faith.” Faith, without seeing. Here you are dying and coming back, being burned and instantly healed, doing exorcisms, talking to the spirits of dead people “hanging around”, etc. If you were in the Corinthian era—where even the carnal displayed sign gifts—it would make a bit more sense (barring the last part).
Even if these things are “just happening” to you there is no reason to passively accept them (or meditate your way to a “new” understanding) when they contradict God’s revealed Word. Renounce any occultic ties! Satan is a master counterfeiter.
Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law. But Scripture has locked up everything under the control of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe. (Galatians 3:21,22)
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