Why San Francisco's biggest megachurch is wrong about sex

First Things ^ | 3-17-15 | Robert A.J. Gagnon

[Misterioso]

These days it's so easy to get sex wrong, it seems to me.

[Gamecock]

```human flourishing```

And just how does sodomy lend itself to human flourishing?

[allendale]

Heresy on full display.

[Politicalkiddo]

If you listen to the Biblical teachings of someone in San Francisco, you’re a born idiot. San Francisco is not a place of morality. They do not peddle morality; just hedonism.

[the_daug]

No point in going to that church. Rom 6:1 What shall we say, then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid! For we that are dead to sin, how shall we live any longer therein?
Rom 6:3 Know you not that all we who are baptized in Christ Jesus are baptized in his death?
Rom 6:4 For we are buried together with him by baptism into death: that, as Christ is risen from the dead by the glory of the Father, so we also may walk in newness of life.

[SWAMPSNIPER]

Yeah, sure!

[LukeL]

What people tend to forget is that it doesn’t matter what you think, it matters what God thinks. The same goes for the law. If we had judges that would rule based on the Constitution instead of what they want to happen we would be much better off.

[Ransomed]

Another thread had a post about them accepting women pastors/leaders before this. As far as I have observed no faith group has accepted homosexual acts or ‘gay marriage’ without first accepting women as clergy/leaders.

Freegards

[ReformationFan]

Indeed. I would be greatly surprised to learn of a religion that would endorse homosexual activity but reject women elders/pastors.

[ReformationFan]

Amen.

[avenir]

“And just how does sodomy lend itself to human flourishing?”

It does not, nor can it ever. Cordoned off in a corner, it can do minimal damage to a strong society. Fully embraced, it invites wrath!

I do not believe “the men of Sodom” were what modern people call “gays”. No, they were something worse: men who had actually abandoned natural relations with women. Thus the anger and violence (they wanted to rape Lot’s guests, not “love” or “marry” them).

We are not there yet. Does anyone else wonder where all the REAL MEN are, as we are now being controlled by The Planet of Women? What kind of “men” allow themselves to be feminized to the point of rolling over for the sentimental mush so many women are seduced by? How did homosexuality get a foothold in our society if men were being MEN (husbands, fathers, neighbors, mentors)?

[fireman15]

It makes one wonder if this so called “mega-church” is actually even a Christian organization at this point or if it has morphed into some new age feel good social group. My wife and I are among the most conservative members of our church. They are constantly focused on pandering to young people. They think that if they have a loud band instead of a choir and sing modern Christian music instead of Hymns that young people will flock to the church.

My wife and I were taught to dress nice when going to Church but they all wear jeans and ratty looking clothes. We were actually chastised for dressing nice by some of the people there. They think that young people won’t bother going to church if everyone else looks nice. I kind of see this “church’s” policy on gay people as an extension of the same crap going on in our church and it makes me wonder if we won’t be looking for a new church one day soon.

[dragonblustar]

[a fool in paradise]

"For all members, regardless of sexual orientation, we will continue to expect chastity in singleness until marriage.”

Homosexuals are 2% of the population. Out of that 2% they don't all even want to get married. They used to call it an "alternative lifestyle" (choice).

How many homosexuals are "saving themselves for marriage"?

What if they are wrong about their same sex attraction desires? Wouldn't it be very queer to learn on your same sex wedding night that you are repulsed by same sex 'intercourse' after all?

[Robwin]

They require sodomites to be married in order to be in good standing? How judgmental.

[BJ1]

>>>What kind of “men” allow themselves to be feminized to the point of rolling over for the sentimental mush so many women are seduced by?<<<

I’m 44 and got to be raised by boomer parents. This generation had many unique attributes. They had the pill, were the first young generation to come of age with no fault divorce, had a large number of working moms and (I don’t know why) they rejected in large numbers being strict with their children.

So for the first time in our history you could have sex without linking that action to procreation. How did that change how men and women related to each other? Did men seek out virtuous women or not? What values were embraced and passed down to subsequent generations from this change?

How did the widespread adoption of divorce change relationships between men and women? You have less trust in marriage now than before. Nobody can be fully secure. How many women work outside the home simply out of fear of being a divorced woman without any marketable skills? How many men have to put up with disrespectful or lazy wives under the threat of divorce, financial ruin and damaged relationships with their kids?

with mothers outside the home in such large numbers who was there to teach daughters to cook, sew and do other traditional gender roles? With women working and men not expected to pay all of the bills, is it unreasonable for the woman to expect the man to do more of the chores at home?

Anyone old enough to be raised when traditional gender roles were more common can understand your angst. But I think there are millions of men and women between 18-25 who don’t even see the blurred lines of gender roles as anything but a positive thing. And
if a man changes diapers and a woman can work full time.......what does it mean to be a man? And what is life all about for a man? I think if you asked a man 50 years ago what is life all about and you ask a man today you would find the answer to your question.

In short I don’t think men allowed anything. They are simply raised without the role models you had growing up.

[SoFloFreeper]

As a church inspired by Tim Keller’s Redeemer Presbyterian Church in New York City and founded in the Reformed tradition, City Church is supposed to give preeminence to Scripture. Instead, on the matter of homosexual practice, the Pastor and Elder Board gave preeminence to their judgment....

Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the Lord God had made.

He said to the woman, “Did God actually say..."

Doubting what God said is the first step to sin, and this church--apparently one that started with the right intentions--is apostate.

[SoFloFreeper]

"When an opponent declares, "I will not come over to your side," I calmly say, "Your child belongs to us already... What are you? You will pass on. Your descendants, however, now stand in the new camp. In a short time they will know nothing else but this new community."

--Adolph Hitler, May 1, 1933

Source:

http://ptfaculty.gordonstate.edu/jmallory/index_files/page0508.htm

[MikeSteelBe]

At least homosexuals that reject God and His laws are being intellectually honest.

Twisting scripture to justify being a “gay Christian” is the most asinine misinterpretation of the Bible I have ever seen.