Posted on 03/22/2015 5:47:53 PM PDT by grumpa
WHEN IS (WAS) THE GREAT TRIBULATION?
by Charles S. Meek
“And they will deliver YOU up to tribulation. . . .” (Matthew 24:9)
“For these are the days of vengeance, to fulfill all that is written.” (Luke 21:22)
“For it will come upon all who dwell on the face of the whole EARTH.” (Luke 21:35)
The Olivet Discourse contains the greatest body of prophecy in the New Testament outside of Revelation. It is found in the parallel passages of Matthew 24/25, Mark 13, and Luke 21. The above passages in the Olivet Discourse are referring to the Great Tribulation at Jesus’ Parousia (his effectual divine presence in judgment). Was Jesus speaking of the entire globe as we know it today, or was He speaking of the world in which He and his contemporaries lived, that is, Judea?
The word translated as “earth” in Luke 21 is the Greek word ge. The online Blue Letter Bible interlinear gives several meanings for this word, including: (a) the inhabited earth, (b) country, land enclosed within fixed boundaries, a tract of land, territory, or region. As always, context and audience relevance determine how to interpret the Bible. Let’s take a look at another time we find this word in the immediate context of the Olivet Discourse:
Matthew 23:35—“That upon YOU may come all the righteous blood shed upon the EARTH [ge], from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias.” This is a clear reference to the Jewish people, and not to all the people on the globe.
In addition to Luke 21:35, Luke’s version of the Olivet Discourse contains the same word “ge” in another verse—verse 21: “There shall be great distress in the LAND [ge].” Jesus is obviously speaking about Jerusalem, which is confirmed by the further context:
In Luke 21:20-21 Jesus tells his followers that they will know when the Tribulation is upon them by the appearance of armies around Jerusalem, and that they can escape the Tribulation by fleeing to the mountains. These instructions limit the extent of the Tribulation to the immediate region—not the whole globe as we think of it today. It matches perfectly with the events surrounding the invasion of Judea by the Roman army in AD 66-70, at which time over a million Jews were killed and the temple demolished.
In the Olivet Discourse, we find several clear time restrictions: (1) At least seven times Jesus restricts the events to those to whom He is speaking, by such phrases as “When YOU see. . . .” Consider: Matthew 24:6, 9, 15, 33, 34, 44; Luke 21:20. (2) For further emphasis, Jesus said, “For THIS IS THE TIME of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written.” Luke 21:22 (3) Just in case they were too dense to get it, He emphasized, “Truly I tell you, THIS GENERATION will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.” Luke 21:32 (4) And, if it there was any lingering doubt about when it would happen, He said, “Pray that you may be able to escape all that is ABOUT TO happen.” (Luke 21:36, see the NIV or literal translations such as the YLT)
But wait. Jesus said it would be the worst tribulation ever (Matthew 24:21). Wasn’t the holocaust worse? Jesus’ frequent use of hyperbole aside, in terms of Jewish history AND covenant, the events surrounding AD 70 were indeed, without exaggeration, the most horrific days ever to befall God’s people.
What about Revelation? Well, John said he was in the tribulation WHEN HE WAS WRITING Revelation! See Revelation 1:9 and 2:9-10. Dozens of scholars are persuaded that Revelation was written in the 60’s AD. So John’s “tribulation” could have been referring to either the Christian persecution under Nero during AD 64-68 or to the devastating events of the Jewish-Roman War in AD 66-70. In either case, this is consistent with Jesus’ numerous “this generation” statements.
Conclusion: The events surrounding the destruction of Jerusalem as predicted by Jesus in the Olivet Discourse were restricted by Him to the region and the people of Judea in the first century. This was the Great Tribulation. There is NO indication in God’s Word that it will ever happen again. To read a future “great tribulation” into the text does violence to the promises of Jesus.
For more information, see my websites:
https://prophecyquestions.wordpress.com
http://www.faithfacts.org/world-religions-and-theology/the-biblical-last-days
https://www.facebook.com/EvangelicalPreterism
Says who?
>>Satan is limited/chained/short-leashed; a beaten adversary.<<
Who do you think you are kidding?
Ephesians 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
1 John 5:19 We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.
Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Anyone who teaches that Satan is limited or chained doesn't know scripture very well.
I don’t give credibility to the “theocracy will prompt Christs return” espoused by DeMar, et al.
Topic was about “When Is (Was) the Great Tribulation?”, did it happen already or is it in the future?
I say it is a pattern; I.e. history repeats itself.
The first instance was in 70 AD.
John A T Robinson’s book shows that the NT books did not refer to the destruction of the temple in the PAST tense, thus the last of them would have been written just prior to it.
Maybe in 69 AD.
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If you endure in that faith to the end! (Mat 24)
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I agree. We just finished studying a book I highly recommend: Steve Greggs’s, “Revelation: Four Views, a Parallel Commentary”. Each view is presented side by side and fully explained. And each view holds certain passage in a better light than any other. The real danger, in my view, is getting locked in too early - it will all become very clear in the fullness of time.
Thanks for the quotes; I thought your question about “is Satan in chains” was referring to the part in the book of Revelations where it says he was put in chains and thrown in the pit.
We will, we most certainly will keep the faith.
Regardless of whether the Great Tribulation only happened once, repeats and has a pattern, or will happen in the future.
Many thanks for the clarification; I wasn’t sure of your position about the timing of the “great tribulation” mentioned in Revelations.
It was. And he's not there yet. But according or the 70AD theory he has to be. It's how absurd that teaching is and how contrary to scripture it is.
Total nonsense. There is one more temple still to be built before Christ's return. Compare the dimensions of the temple destroyed in 70AD and the temple to be built.
And I agree with those scripture quotes you posted; they illustrate clearly what Satan is up to.
Please excuse the mixup; the book of Revelations is not an easy one to figure out !
Now if the tribulation in 70AD has repeats, like I mentioned further down the thread, (I.e. WWII, etc), then that “not chained yet” fits.
It isn't all that tuff if you first understand Daniel's prophecy of 490 years for the nation of Israel. There are seven years of that prophecy left. It's called the time of Jacob's trouble or the tribulation the account of which is in Revelation. It's much more literal than you seem to think. It's the time during which the remnant of Israel will be saved. 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes.
Not according to scripture.
Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Like never before and never will be again. No repeats.
OK now this “Daniel’s 490 years” is new to me.
I was raised traditional Lutheran (Missouri Synod) and then Presbyterian; they never mentioned this.
I only heard about it in Brethren run high school.
I still don’t understand it.
490 years from when?
Temple rebuilt?
Lutheran Missouri synod never talked about this. Neither did orthodox Presbyterian.
Now I’m confused.
Among many other things...
Shows how God made it happen through the Israelite nation and remnant. Matthew starts with the lineage of the King of Kings.
As I said:
"The only way that Replacement Theology can be true is to flatly ignore OT prophecy entirely, and thereby be free to interpret the NT prophecies however one wants."
You are necessarily incorrect, sir. EVERY word of YHWH is TRUE. Without understanding Torah, the Holy Days, and the Jubilee, one has no chance of understanding the Prophets, and without understanding of the Prophets, there is no way to understand the Revelation of Messiah. If the Tanakh (OT) can remain unfulfilled, then there is no reason to believe the promises of Messiah.
Gods Law = God’s commandments.
From the Gospel of Matthew:
And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, asked him, “Which commandment is the most important of all?” 29 Jesus answered, “The most important is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. 30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ 31 The second is this: ’You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”
Sorry, I got about halfway through the audio from that Gentry guy, about where the antisemitism starts, and could take no more. Eisegesis. Try stepping outside of your Greek/Roman paradigm.
Where do I go to find out more about what you said, about the fall Feasts, and the Holy Days, the Jubilee?
This is as new to me as the 790 years of daniel that was mentioned upthread...
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