Praying of the Rosary Is NOT Bible-Based Teaching

The Disciplers ^ | 2011 | Ptr. Vince

[Elsie]

Is this rhetorical or would you like an answer?

An answer would suffice.

[Syncro]

By the way Jesus and Satan are created and are brothers in Mormon belief.

You don't say. Well, did you know that we are brothers and sisters of Jesus too as well as Lucifer?

First of all, in Christianity, satan is a created entity, Jesus has been around since the beginning. Jesus, God the Father and the Holy Spirit have always "been". Forever.

A Mormon can't speak for Christians, that "we" has to mean you and others that follow the LDS belief system.

Christians can't be a brother with a created entity like satan.

Mankind is a completely different type of life form than satan.

God created all the angels at a time in the past, and satan, lucifer, was the mightiest of them all. He (satan/Lucifer) wanted to elevate himself to a position higher than God, so he got slapped down.

Angels are not "related" to humans, so there can be no brothers of satan/lucifer that are human.

Now if you want to believe you are the brother of satan/lucifer, fine with me.

And whatever "jesus" you have can be a brother of satan and you also, fine with me.

But Christians (and of course Jesus, the Jesus of the Bible) are not brothers of satan/Lucifer.

By the way Jesus and Satan are created and are brothers in Mormon belief.

You don't say. Well, did you know that we are brothers and sisters of Jesus too as well as Lucifer?

[Religion Moderator]

No, there will be no comparison.

Some personal comments are removed, some are missed, and some are responded to with a comment to encourage the poster in question to abide by the rules.

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If the other guy in the dispute was given a warning, consider yourself warned as well.

[daniel1212]

I suppose a Catholic version could read “we had mothers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Mother of spirits, and live?

Blasphemous, but so are many extremes of Marian devotion.

[FormerLib]

Please leave the Orthodox Christian topic off of such rants. Thank you.

[rwa265]

Because the Holy Spirit did not lead the writers of the Scripture to say what you extrapolate from Scripture, as you have been informed repeatedly by me and other FReepers as well.

---

Saying over and over that the Holy Spirit did not lead the writers of the Scripture to say what I have referenced from Scripture does not make it so. The referenced Scriptures record that Mary conceived, brought forth, and is the mother of:

that which is of the Holy Ghost
the one who shall save his people from their sins
Emmanuel, God with us
a son who shall be great
who shall be called the Son of the Highest
the one whom the Lord God shall give the throne of his father David
the one who shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever
the one whose kingdom there shall be no end
that holy thing
the one who shall be called the Son of God
the mother of my Lord
a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord
the Lord’s Christ
the Lord’s salvation
the King of the Jews
The Lord’s son out of Egypt

These words are not an extrapolation; they are what the Holy Spirit led the writers of the Scripture to write, taken directly from Scriptures. And unless you can give me a specific explanation as to why it is not so, together these words teach that Mary is the mother of God.

Paul writes in Philippians 2: Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

If God would allow himself as Jesus Christ to be made in the likeness of men, why would he not also, like any other man, be the son of a woman?

[DungeonMaster]

You don't say. Well, did you know that we are brothers and sisters of Jesus too as well as Lucifer?

You confessed to believing that Jesus is a created being. Who cares about lesser heresies?

[DungeonMaster]

Well said Syncro!

[DungeonMaster]

I suppose a Catholic version could read “we had mothers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Mother of spirits, and live?

That sounds very Mormon! It certainly is the way they seem to think. Most of the Catholics I know in real live vs online don't really know much about what the Church says of Mary. They really don't know much about the bible. The one I just spoke with a couple of weeks ago got really agitated at the very mention of the bible. He started saying that he doesn't "judge other's beliefs" and that he tries to follow the ten commandments. That's a very common position for them to take.

Blasphemous, but so are many extremes of Marian devotion.

I believe they have given her a thousand names and titles. If you do any study of wicca you sense the same spirit.

[daniel1212]

He started saying that he doesn't "judge other's beliefs" and that he tries to follow the ten commandments.

And which trad. RCs with excuse as being "poorly catechized," rather than admit the fact that what Rome effectually conveys is the belief that one can believe all sorts of things and still be a RC, especially since impenitent proabortion, prosodomite, promuslim pols are treated as members in life and in death. As long as one died a RC then they will be saved thru the intercession of elitist Rome is what multitudes are led to believe. To their tragic eternal horror.

Yet they criticize us who seek their salvation by faith in the Lord to save them as contrite damned + destitute sinners by His sinless shed blood, on account of His expense and righteousness, not theirs or that of their church or saints. Thanks be to God.

[af_vet_1981]

In the same way, af_vet is not asking a trick question. He is simply asking if you agree with what scripture says in Matthew 1:18-23. These verses support the doctrine that Mary is the mother of God because “she shall bring forth a son” “that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.”

Amen. We do not look for another young woman who is a virgin to conceive and call her son Immanuel. Miriam/Mary is the mother of Immanuel. Thus Miriam/Mary is the mother of "God with us" and it is thus according to the scriptures.

Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Isaiah, Catholic chapter seven, Protestant verse fourteen,
Matthew, Catholic chapter one, Protestant verses twenty two to twenty three,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James

[daniel1212]

Amazing graphic, and indeed J. Smith=prophet=Scripture is from a shifty and specious faith. Good that you expose it.

[daniel1212]

But then, the door-knockers in these parts are usually from that cult that follows the teachings of Arius (you know - the bunch that has a little g god, a torture stake, and a vaporous resurrection)

As if their org does not have a credibility problem , while the unscriptural sola ecclesia premise of ensured magisterial veracity that such cults essentially operate out of is what Rome owns as well.

[rwa265]

Thank you.

What really bothers me is that no attempt is made to address our concerns. We are insulted, told that we are dancing the same dance, moving the goalposts, extrapolating, blaspheming, not answering their questions, etc. It’s as if they have been taught that when they cannot refute a statement, that the best response is to do anything rather than give a direct response to the specific statement.

[StormPrepper]

Jesus has been around since the beginning. Jesus, God the Father and the Holy Spirit have always "been". Forever.

There was no beginning.

The mixture of Greek culture into Christianity in the first century turned Christianity into a pagan acceptable religion. Appealing to Greek audiences.

This is where you get the concept of "Personal Savior" but still maintain the mythos of "uncreated", "unseeable", "unknowable", "everywhere and no where", "unreachable", etc...

And the notion that angels are like winged fairies floating around heaven.

Jude spoke of the first estate. The first estate is following Heavenly Fathers plan to be born on this earth. A full third of all that were in heaven refused and were cast out. They didn't keep their first estate. (Jude 1:6)

Those that did keep their first estate are born into mortality to be tested, tried, and so they can learn to chose for themselves good from evil. That's us.

Keeping our second estate is achieving salvation from sin and returning to our Father in Heaven.

Jesus said that His Father is also our Father. That makes us brother and sisters with Christ. And unfortunately all those that didn't keep their first estate and were cast out.

When Jesus came across the man that was possessed with a legion of evil spirits. Jesus knew who they were. He didn't hate them, He had pity on them and cast them into the swine. Because He knew they would never receive a body in this life. Jesus knows what awaits them after the judgement, there was no need to do anything further. (Matt 8:31-32)

Jesus taught that our Father in Heaven is both reachable and approachable. And is literally His and our "Father".

Of course we are different from the Angels...now. Our spirits have been combined with mortal bodies. The Angels are people that have either passed through this life or are waiting to come into mortality. They are where ever God wants them to be at this time until the judgement.

The belief that we have nothing in common with those that dwell with God is a tool of the devil. Meant to discourage us from achieving our full potential.

Plus...it just makes no sense.

[DungeonMaster]

Of course we are different from the Angels...now. Our spirits have been combined with mortal bodies. The Angels are people that have either passed through this life or are waiting to come into mortality. They are where ever God wants them to be at this time until the judgement.

The belief that we have nothing in common with those that dwell with God is a tool of the devil. Meant to discourage us from achieving our full potential.

So angels become people and people become angels. OK there's another doctrinal error but it still isn't as bad as the idea that God used to be a mortal man who was promoted into being eternal. That really doesn't even make sense. Part of that belief is that God has a Father and Mother, A Spirit Mother, who created His spirit. You demote God to being one of many Gods like pagan beliefs and populate the universe with all of these lesser Gods. That's the key heresy, all others are lesser IMHO.

[Colofornian]

There was no beginning. The mixture of Greek culture into Christianity in the first century turned Christianity into a pagan acceptable religion. Appealing to Greek audiences. This is where you get the concept of "Personal Savior" but still maintain the mythos of "uncreated", "unseeable", "unknowable", "everywhere and no where", "unreachable", etc...And the notion that angels are like winged fairies floating around heaven.

Based upon StormPrepper & his Mormnism's "scripture" Doctrine & Covenants 93:29,33...it says spirits and intelligences are as eternal as God is:
29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be. 33 For man is spirit. The elements are eternal... (LDS "scripture" Doctrine & Covenants 93:29,33)

So while StormPrepper accuses early Christianity of having embraced "Greek culture" and that "there was no beginning" ... even his "scripture" references some "beginning."

Beyond that...

Per the Mormon narrative, we all supposedly started off as "goo" somewhere...a "spirit" (D&C 93:29,33)...You are just as "eternal" (as in eternal past) as God & Jesus...you haven't "lived" any less than them (past-wise)

THEN (Chapter II) you were spirit-born to a man who became God & one of his goddess wives...near "Kolob"...wherever that is...
Oh, and Lucifer -- Satan -- was your "elder spirit bro"
THEN (Chapter III) you were sent here...essentially "alien" status...to inhabit a body...

THEN (Chapter IV) either...
...(a) you become a temple Mormon so you can eternally progress to become a future god (run your world; create your own spirit kids; receive worship & prayer & glory from them as a "god")...
...or (b) be a nontemple Mormon or a "good" Christian & go to the "middle" celestial glory where you can't live with Heavenly Father forever (not sure how that could EVER be defined as "heaven" by Mormons)...
...or (c) be Necro-baptized by proxy in a spirit world where you & everybody goes (even the best Mormons go there, too, for a while)

And if the above wasn't enough, if you look under the "Spirit" entry in LDS church-published Bible Dictionary, 1979 (p. 776) -- in back of Holy Bible, you'll find this worse than winged fairies entry:

"That is, ALL forms of living things--man, beast and vegetation--existed as individual spirits, before any form of life existed upon the earth. The spirit is in the likeness of the physical body, as demonstrated in Gen. 2:5; 1 Ne. 11:11; Ether 3:15-16; D&C 77:2; 129; Moses 3:4-7. Furthermore, all spirit is matter, but is more refined and pure than mortal element (D&C 131:7)."

So. If you take the infinite regression teaching of the Mormon church -- infinitely regressing, we ALL have supposedly "existed" in some form -- [again, see @ Doctrine & Covenant 93:29,33 above...this teaches WE are as eternal (past) as God/Jesus, etc. -- & that spirits & intelligences & elements ALWAYS existed!!!
...and couple it with this above eternal regression teaching...that vegetation & beasts were co-existent alongside us as fellow "spirits" once upon a time...and that we all have ALWAYS existed... Sometimes esoteric macabre teachings that you think are so FAR out there...are actually mainstream Mormonism!

[Colofornian]

You don't say. Well, did you know that we are brothers and sisters of Jesus too as well as Lucifer?

DungeonMaster, ALL: The WORST part of this is actually how Mormonism reduces Jesus.

Lds reference Jesus a fair amount as "elder brother." Yet in their mind, Satan is "Elder Brother," too!

[DungeonMaster]

The WORST part of this is actually how Mormonism reduces Jesus.

Yes they reduce God in so many ways. At the same time they elevate man. "The Cult Explosion" by Dave Hunt groups them with new age and Hinduism and a dozen other cults who all elevate man to godhood.

[Resettozero]

Yes they reduce God in so many ways. At the same time they elevate man. "The Cult Explosion" by Dave Hunt groups them with new age and Hinduism and a dozen other cults who all elevate man to godhood.

Each cult builds fantasy worlds that attract weak-minded sin-loving lost souls, many of whom have heard and yet rejected the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Not all have heard the Gospel yet and that's simultaneously amazing and disappointing.