Posted on 03/28/2015 11:13:51 AM PDT by marshmallow
Twin astronauts Mark and Scott Kelly (raised Catholic in an Irish-American family) are about to embark on an important scientific experiment on Friday. Scott Kelly will begin spending a year in space on the International Space Station (ISS) while his brother stays back here on earth as a control subject. NASA will be studying how extended time in space changes Scott relative to his brother Mark. Living for an extended time outside the gravity of earth and partially exposed to the radiation of space can impact one’s bones, heart, eyes, muscles, and who knows what else.
It’s probably important to start understanding and thinking more about living in space because frankly that is where the human future may be. At some point the Catholic Church will need to think about how people can “do” Catholicism in space. During the shuttle Endeavour mission STS-134 in March 2011, Mark Kelly was part of the crew on the ISS who spoke with Pope Benedict XVI. He told Kelly and the astronauts,
“Space exploration is a fascinating scientific adventure. I know you have been studying your equipment to further scientific research and to study radiation coming from outer space. But I think it is also an adventure of the human spirit. A powerful stimulus to reflect on the origins and on the destiny of the universe and humanity.”
Indeed the destiny of human beings is among the stars as our descendants will eventually need to get off this rock to survive (…if we don’t kill each other first). The sun is about to enter its mid-life crisis. At 4.6 billion years old it has more than a half-life to go. Well before then it is expected to get a bit brighter by about 10% in 1.1 billion years. That will begin to make life......
(Excerpt) Read more at nineteensixty-four.blogspot.com ...
Please...we have not moved anywhere. First, let’s find out if we have anything to move with. What is the “this” that Jesus is referring to?
Incorrect. You claimed that biblical Christianity does not command us to do anything. To defeat that contention I do not need to show precisely what he commanded us to do but merely that he commanded us to do something. Nevertheless, I contend that he commanded us to commemorate the actions he had just completed when he said “Do this in memory of me”. To prove your original contention you would need to prove that he did not command us to do anything.
Okay, we may be finished before we start. If “this” was an occasional memorial when believers gathered, without any specificity or “sacramental” import, nor with any requirement of frequency or consequence (other than it might remind folks of the wonderful power of His death, burial and resurrection), then there is no substantial “this” to discuss. And, I am fairly busy here, so either get on with your definition of “this” or say goodbye.
“I doubt there could ever be Space Cardinals (...even on Mars). There would be no way they could make it back for a conclave.”
How did they do it hundreds of years ago when travel was also slow, dangerous, and expensive? To my understanding every Cardinal wasn’t able to attend.
Apostolic succession for any hypothetical interstellar colonies might also be a problem, although I think a bishop can ordain another bishop with the Pope’s permission.
Freegards
Here I really don't understand your point. Are you embracing the idea that Jesus meant "an occasional memorial when believers gathered, without any specificity or “sacramental” import, nor with any requirement of frequency or consequence" or rejecting it?
If the former, it would suggest that Jesus, speaking at such a solemn occasion issues a command that has so little meaning it could be considered a nothing. To believe it is a nothing would be to take something away, to blot something out of scripture.
If the latter, then I agree with you. Jesus is speaking at a solemn dinner where Jews with an annual frequency commemorate a important scriiptural event in a very specific way. He was following the specific method of that commemoration and then he did something more:
When the hour came, Jesus and his apostles reclined at the table. And he said to them, “I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer. For I tell you, I will not eat it again until it finds fulfillment in the kingdom of God.”
After taking the cup, he gave thanks and said, “Take this and divide it among you. For I tell you I will not drink again from the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.”
And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me.”
Certainly this command of Jesus has meaning that cannot be reduced to a nothing.
Now, onto what I believe he meant. My view is summarized very neatly in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. To understand its scriptural basis in Hebrew and Christian scripture it would be best to read the whole section on the Eucharist, but I'll provide the specific part that address what to actually do (ten a link to the whole section):
"Do this in memory of me"
1341 The command of Jesus to repeat his actions and words "until he comes" does not only ask us to remember Jesus and what he did. It is directed at the liturgical celebration, by the apostles and their successors, of the memorial of Christ, of his life, of his death, of his Resurrection, and of his intercession in the presence of the Father.167
1342 From the beginning the Church has been faithful to the Lord's command. Of the Church of Jerusalem it is written:
They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers. . . . Day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they partook of food with glad and generous hearts.168
1343 It was above all on "the first day of the week," Sunday, the day of Jesus' resurrection, that the Christians met "to break bread."169 From that time on down to our own day the celebration of the Eucharist has been continued so that today we encounter it everywhere in the Church with the same fundamental structure. It remains the center of the Church's life.
1344 Thus from celebration to celebration, as they proclaim the Paschal mystery of Jesus "until he comes," the pilgrim People of God advances, "following the narrow way of the cross,"170 toward the heavenly banquet, when all the elect will be seated at the table of the kingdom.
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c1a3.htm
Seems we have another troll attempting to control the conversation with repititious redundency and irrelevant non-sequiturs.
It isn't difficult to understand. It is difficult to overcome! Only by making restrictive "definitions" can we overcome the TRUTH of Scripture.
There is NOTHING in Scripture that tells us to meet in a gilt house on Sundays to eat bread and drink wine...
Oft = when!
Cults try to dominate by inference and restriction....
Romans 8: ... 14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. 15 The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.” 16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.
This tells me all I need to know. You are a party-line man...the text of the Scripture is not in your definition. My definition is based on the remarks of Jesus...and no more. Yours is based upon the traditions of your cronies. We're done here. You have proved only that you cannot let go of your organization. I'll stick with the Bible.
Certainly! And, certainly there is nothing that adds, "Have a guy in a pointy hat with a fancy bathrobe say some magic words over a biscuit and wine and it will BECOME My body and blood." Where does Rome get this? Unbelievable that they have morphed His simple words into their "sacrament to confer grace".
And, yes, Rom. 8...there is freedom from the chains of Rome...there is life in the Son.
It is not appropriate to call a fellow freeper a troll. I have been a freeper for twice as long as WVKayaker. If WVKayaker wants to take issue with something I have said, that is what the religion forum is for, but name calling is not acceptable here.
Incorrect. Even if you were to know everything about me, that would not be "all you need to know".
What you really need to know is not about me, it's about Jesus Christ
And he's the one who said "Do this in memory of me"
And you are the one who said "biblical Christianity doesn’t have anything to “do”.
And I don't think trying to put me in a box is going to help you square that circle.
Discuss the issues all you want but do not make it personal.
Threads on the RF should not be about posters, that takes away from the discussion.
Continue to pursue the “Catholic Catechism”. It fits folks who need something to do. The “do” Jesus was talking about clearly is not something an astronaut would have to “do”, even if he would be gone for years. Again, no frequency, no specificity, no schedule to keep...unless you have bought the Romanist line. Then there are rules galore, many things to do, or hell to pay. You stay there...I’ll go with Jesus.
2. The “do” Jesus was talking about clearly is not something an astronaut would have to “do”, even if he would be gone for years.
So to summarize, biblical Christianity does have something to “do” but it "is not something an astronaut would have to “do”.
Is it something people on, say, maybe, Earth would have to do?
Wow! Your standards are quite low. I have no need to justify my FReeping date, because it is irrelevant to the conversation. You are bestowed no special status by that!
I see an inordinate series of postings that never answer the questions posed, or tries to deflect to some other points.
Try reading the Scriptures attached and ignore my wording, if it offends you.
Hebrews 7 ... 18 The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless 19 (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.
20 And it was not without an oath! Others became priests without any oath, 21 but he became a priest with an oath when God said to him:
“The Lord has sworn
and will not change his mind:
‘You are a priest forever.’”
22 Because of this oath, Jesus has become the guarantor of a better covenant.
23 Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; 24 but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. 25 Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.
26 Such a high priest truly meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens. 27 Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself. 28 For the law appoints as high priests men in all their weakness; but the oath, which came after the law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever. ...
The new FR definition of troll is, “Anyone who disagrees with me.”
You were already asked to do so once.
From the Religion Moderator guidelines:
Open threads are in a town square format.
Antagonism though not encouraged, should be expected Posters may argue for or against beliefs, deities, religious authorities, etc. They may tear down other’s beliefs. They may ridicule. “Open” RF debate is often contentious.
It requires thick skin. A poster must be able to make his points while standing his ground, suffering adverse remarks about his beliefs - or letting them roll off his back.
Members of religions which are as much culture as belief sometimes take religious debate personally. If you keep getting your feelings hurt because other posters ridicule or disapprove or hate what you hold dear, then you are too thin-skinned to be involved in “open” RF debate. You should IGNORE “open” RF threads altogether and instead post to RF threads labeled “prayer” “devotional” “caucus” or “ecumenical.”
No. That is the point. We are encouraged to pray. If you call that a “do”, he could do that in space. We are encouraged to understand the Scriptures. He could do that in space. We are encouraged to trust Jesus. He could do that in space. Anything of any consequence that believers are encouraged to “do”, he could do from space...except for all the ritualistic traditions foisted on the sheeple by Rome. Those definitely need a whole entourage of folks to prop up. I mean, who will sing, “I can play dominos better than you can.” for the guy so he feels forgiven?
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