Posted on 05/22/2015 4:54:44 PM PDT by OK Sun
I have been taught Dispensationalism from my mother’s womb. I was born in a dispensational environment. It was assumed at my church to be a part of the Gospel. There was never another option presented. It made sense. It helped me put together the Scriptures in a way that cleared up so much confusion. And, to be honest, the emphasis on the coming tribulation, current events that prove the Bible’s prophecy, the fear that the Antichrist may be alive today (who is he?) was all quite exciting. But what might be the biggest attraction for me is the charts! Oh how I love charts. I think in charts. And dispensationalism is a theology of charts!
The first time I came across someone who was not a Dispensationalist was in 1999. I am not kidding. It was the first time! I don’t think I even knew if there was another view. It was when I was a student at Dallas Theological Seminary (the bastion of Dispensationalism) and I was swimming with some guys who were at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. Once they discovered I was a dispensationalist, they giggled and snickered. They made fun of the rapture, the sacrificial system during the millennium, and the mark of the beast (which, at that time, was some type of barcode). It was as if they patted me on the head and said “It’s okay . . . nice little dispensationalist.” I was so angry. I was humiliated. I was a second-rate theologian. They were “Covenantalists” (whatever that was). But they were the cool guys who believed in the historic Christian faith and I was the cultural Christian, believing in novel ideas.
(Excerpt) Read more at reclaimingthemind.org ...
You, a Rood junkie, can tell me what is Scriptural and what is not?? Please. Tell it to someone who is willing to learn from you. Maybe deaf or comatose.
And yet Paul himself treats Jewish believers differently than Gentile believers, and obeys both the everlasting covenant of circumcision (for Jews), and the law of Moses (for Jews), according to the scriptures. Paul circumcised Timothy because he had a Jewish mother and did not circumcise Titus, who was a Greek, because the Jewish apostles at the Jerusalem council had already bound that the Gentiles who believed did not need to be circumcised and only, with respect to the law of Moses, only had to abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations. This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised. And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you. And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed. He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant. And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When either man or woman shall separate themselves to vow a vow of a Nazarite, to separate themselves unto the LORD: He shall separate himself from wine and strong drink, and shall drink no vinegar of wine, or vinegar of strong drink, neither shall he drink any liquor of grapes, nor eat moist grapes, or dried. All the days of his separation shall he eat nothing that is made of the vine tree, from the kernels even to the husk. All the days of the vow of his separation there shall no rasor come upon his head: until the days be fulfilled, in the which he separateth himself unto the LORD, he shall be holy, and shall let the locks of the hair of his head grow. All the days that he separateth himself unto the LORD he shall come at no dead body. He shall not make himself unclean for his father, or for his mother, for his brother, or for his sister, when they die: because the consecration of his God is upon his head. All the days of his separation he is holy unto the LORD. And if any man die very suddenly by him, and he hath defiled the head of his consecration; then he shall shave his head in the day of his cleansing, on the seventh day shall he shave it. And on the eighth day he shall bring two turtles, or two young pigeons, to the priest, to the door of the tabernacle of the congregation: And the priest shall offer the one for a sin offering, and the other for a burnt offering, and make an atonement for him, for that he sinned by the dead, and shall hallow his head that same day. And he shall consecrate unto the LORD the days of his separation, and shall bring a lamb of the first year for a trespass offering: but the days that were before shall be lost, because his separation was defiled. And this is the law of the Nazarite, when the days of his separation are fulfilled: he shall be brought unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation: And he shall offer his offering unto the LORD, one he lamb of the first year without blemish for a burnt offering, and one ewe lamb of the first year without blemish for a sin offering, and one ram without blemish for peace offerings, And a basket of unleavened bread, cakes of fine flour mingled with oil, and wafers of unleavened bread anointed with oil, and their meat offering, and their drink offerings. And the priest shall bring them before the LORD, and shall offer his sin offering, and his burnt offering: And he shall offer the ram for a sacrifice of peace offerings unto the LORD, with the basket of unleavened bread: the priest shall offer also his meat offering, and his drink offering. And the Nazarite shall shave the head of his separation at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and shall take the hair of the head of his separation, and put it in the fire which is under the sacrifice of the peace offerings. And the priest shall take the sodden shoulder of the ram, and one unleavened cake out of the basket, and one unleavened wafer, and shall put them upon the hands of the Nazarite, after the hair of his separation is shaven: And the priest shall wave them for a wave offering before the LORD: this is holy for the priest, with the wave breast and heave shoulder: and after that the Nazarite may drink wine. This is the law of the Nazarite who hath vowed, and of his offering unto the LORD for his separation, beside that that his hand shall get: according to the vow which he vowed, so he must do after the law of his separation. Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also. And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain. But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised: Then came he to Derbe and Lystra: and, behold, a certain disciple was there, named Timotheus, the son of a certain woman, which was a Jewess, and believed; but his father was a Greek: Which was well reported of by the brethren that were at Lystra and Iconium. Him would Paul have to go forth with him; and took and circumcised him because of the Jews which were in those quarters: for they knew all that his father was a Greek. And as they went through the cities, they delivered them the decrees for to keep, that were ordained of the apostles and elders which were at Jerusalem. And Paul after this tarried there yet a good while, and then took his leave of the brethren, and sailed thence into Syria, and with him Priscilla and Aquila; having shorn his head in Cenchrea: for he had a vow. And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present. And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry. And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs. What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come. Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them; Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication. Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purifcation, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them.
Genesis, Catholic chapter seventeen, Protestant verses nine to fourteen,
Numbers, Catholic chapter six, Protestant verses one to twenty one,
Galatians, Catholic chapter six, Protestant verses one to three,
Acts, Catholic chapter sixteen, Protestant verses one to four,
Acts, Catholic chapter eighteen, Protestant verse eighteen,
Acts, Catholic chapter twenty one, Protestant verses eighteen to twenty six,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James
Dispensationalism is not strong delusion, and it is not crafted by Satan. Dispensationalism is one method of interpreting scripture, particularly scripture relating to eschatology. I tend to keep it and other methods handy as an overlay for watching events and comparing them to scripture and the overview/overlay.
Dispensationalism itself is nothing more than the recognition that God and man had one relationship in the Garden of Eden, another in post-Edenic earth, another in post-diluvian earth, another is the Israel/God covenant, another in the Church Age, another in the millennium, and another in the world to come. I really find that observation to be a helpful overlay. It’s helpful because the witness of scripture is what it is attempting to summarize. It’s not a bad summary. It’s a good summary. It testifies to Christ. Unless Satan is in the business of testifying to Christ, then dispensationalism is of God, an effort by His people to put some difficult things together in an understandable format.
I’ve often thought that covenant theology is also ‘dispensational’, the difference being that it comes up with 2 dispensations.
What we should remember about any tool used to help put the scripture into an easily understood format is that it is a tool. As an overlay, though, it’s just possible that dispensationalism is right.
Personally, I think dispensationalism does as good or better job than any other overlay out there.
One thing it does is account for pieces of information that other overlays simply ignore. Cynical Bear mentioned that dispensationalism points out very clearly the matter of Israel’s persecution during the last week of Daniel. I agree with that.
If EVERYONE is here when Christ’s foot landing on earth takes place, then what is the army with Him? Who are the people of the rapture mentioned? Who are the people who populate the restored earth? It appears that there are friends of Jesus present on the earth? Where did they come from if everyone was raptured immediately before He touched down?
CynicalBear’s interpretation takes remote pieces and puts them together. Other interpretations either ignore those issues or turns everything into some big allegory or symbol. Those overlays are worth watching, but they aren’t as comprehensive.
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>> “The tribulation prophecy period of Daniel is 7 years” <<
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NO! The 70th week will be 7 years, but the tribulation of the saints is “42 months,” “A time and times and half a time”
Everywhere that it is mentioned it is the same period of time. Nowhere is it said to be 7 years.
The trib is the last 3.5 years of the 70th week.
There is no “church.” It is Yeshua’s assembly, and Daniel is very much a part of it, as are all of the patriarchs.
>> “The Resurrection has 3 parts...The first fruits, the harvest and then the gleanings” <<
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This is absolute garbage!
Can you direct us to the passage of scripture that you have imagined to say this?
There is but one resurrection that is said to be unto eternal life, the first resurrection, at the end of the trib, and just before the wrath of God is poured out on the Earth in the ten days of the bowl judgements.”The rest of the dead” are raised to judgement, not to eternal life, 1000 years later, after we have reigned with Yeshua for 1000 years on Earth.
And yet you wrote "Which is why I am a non-denominational member of the Church the Body of Christ." ... and there actually is a faith community of that name.
What happens when Israel is blinded and set aside in Acts 29, af? Is Paul blinded, too or is he just left with 50-50 vision, half for Jews and half for Gentiles? Wake up and read what God PLAINLY SAYS.
mark
**Zuriel, I don’t want to leave you with the impression that I’m dismissing your posts**
Well, when you admit that you don’t want to discuss Cornelius, and don’t even acknowledge Paul meeting the certain disciples in Ephesus (Acts 19), and baptizng them in the name of the Lord Jesus.......
**It’s just that we need a starting point with this. A foundation.**
It doesn’t get any more basic than this:
“But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; But unto them which are called, BOTH Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God”. 1Cor. 1:23,24
And also:
“But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:” 1Cor. 1:30
I do appreciate your earnest effort to present your position, smvoice.
God bless.
That pretty much sums it up, xzins. Wouldn't you agree..
Is that Acts 29 Protestant revision of 1879 or Protestant invention of 2015 ?
Yes, it is a great verse.
"But Peter took him (Cornelius) up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man."
"And as he talked with him, he went in, and found many that were come together."
"And he (Peter) said unto them, Ye KNOW HOW THAT IT IS AN UNLAWFUL THING for a man THAT IS A JEW to KEEP COMPANY, or come unto ONE OF ANOTHER NATION, but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean." ACTS 10:26-28.
Got that? Peter STILL believed it was unlawful to go to Gentiles until God showed him...WHEN, when did God show Peter that he should not call any man common or unclean? In Matt. Mark Luke John or Acts 1-3? No. It was in the vision God gave Peter in Acts 10:9. If he doesn't know until then that it is okay to go to Gentiles, how in the name of all that is sane would a person believe that Peter and the 11 preached the gospel of the grace of God in Matt. Mark Luke John or Acts 1-3?
BTW: you'll note that Peter is given this vision in Acts 10. Paul is saved in Acts 9. Important?
Not worth my time. Take it up with God.
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Dispensationalism is nowhere to be found in the word of God.
It is false doctrine definitely crafted by Satan.
Interpreting scripture rather than taking it as it is plainly written is not a path to sound doctrine.
None of the tenets of dispensationalism is in agreement of any part of the word.
Yeshua and Paul made it plain that the only resurrection unto eternal life takes place at the last trump. “After the tribulation of those days.”
Paul made a great effort to tell the Thessalonians that they need not be troubled by the fear that a rapture had already happened, because it could not come until the man of sin had been revealed.
There is no tool needed to understand the scriptures but reading them.
Any idea that requires manipulation with a tool is not from the word of God.
Nowhere does the word of God call for a “church” nor a church age. Yeshua spoke of his ekklesia, congregation, assembly, not anything new, but that which had existed throughout the span of man’s existence.
The part of that assembly that is alive at any particular time is his remnant.
All of the tenets of dispensationalism make Yeshua a liar, it fails completely to testify of him as he is revealed in the word, by himself, and by his apostles.
I was not brought up in covenant theology, so I do not feel competent to discuss it in any depth, but I was crippled spiritually by the Satanic lie of dispensationalism for a significant portion of my life, so I know it from end to end.
Its end is not pretty. It has people unprepared for the days of the end, thus potentially taking the mark, and definitely missing the protection that will soon be prepared for us.
“Overlays” do not guide anyone to Yeshua’s narrow path. An overlay is “another Jesus.” An overlay is believed by the cult instead of the word.
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Acts 28. ACTS 28. Sorry for the mis-numbered Scripture. I’m sure it has you all perplexed...
Been reading your Bible long? Ephesians is our friend.
Of course the Catholic church did not precede Christ....remember when HE SAID..."upon this rock I will build My church"....That's the beginning of the Catholic church.
No, Catholicism is not a denomination.....all there was for 16 centuries was the Catholic church....then along came the wannabees who had to be separated by name so they were referred to as denominations so people could tell the difference between them The Catholic church is still a “denomination” .. just like the Methodist, Baptist, Presbyterian, etc.
The above summary is just another overlay that you have elevated as an interpretive tool. I have no problem with that, but you have take entire books and condensed them to 2 sentences.
"And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things TO THE CHURCH, WHICH IS HIS BODY."Eph. 1:22,23.
You should check out your Bible. It seems to be missing Paul's epistles, editor...
2 sentences that come from 2 different dispensations. If you followed 2 Tim. 2:15, editor, you would already know this.
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