Catholic Cardinal: Ireland's Vote for Gay Marriage 'In Defiance of God,' Worse Than 'Pagans'

CNS News ^ | 5/28/15 | Michael W. Chapman

[Jim from C-Town]

They identify as Catholics yet do not actively participate or follow church teachings.

They can call myself anything it doesn’t make it so.

This is not unique to the Catholic Church. You could fire a scatter gun at most Mainline Protestant Churches at the best attended service on any Sunday with no fear of injuring a soul or even waking the congregation as there isn’t one.

The same holds true in the American Catholic Church. Less than 40% participate as Catholics. Fewer go to Mass every week. Mass attendance is at a low ebb, around 30% on any given Sunday.

When we are looking at voting as a block, one would do better to look at ACTIVE church goers regardless of denomination.

If you dig a little deeper into the numbers, you would find that active Catholics vote much closer to the norm for other active religious denominations.

When one looks at white Catholics, they actual vote MORE conservative than their active Protestants counterparts. Lots of Catholics are Hispanic in this country. In the World actually.

So it really all depends on how you look at the statistics.

I actually read an article about a study on this very subject just within the last couple days. I am just too disinterested at this time to try to find it.

Believe me, nothing frustrates active Catholics more than the apostate jack holes that claim they are Catholic, yet haven’t darkened a church doorstep outside of a wedding or funeral in decades.

[ansel12]

When the “Protestant” vote is counted, it counts people who don’t even belong to a church, much less attend one, even people who have never been baptized.

Non-catholic Christians are counted as Protestant if they merely say that yeah, they are Christian, and they if they don’t belong to the Catholic denomination.

Only some Catholics play this game of superiority and purity over their fellow Catholics, and it comes up when we conservative pro-lifers start talking about the vote.

So yes, this effort to hide the Catholic vote, IS unique to Catholics.

[Jim from C-Town]

Exactly. But when you drive to the numbers you find that the more active in Church, Any Church a person is, the more likely they vote conservative.

No one denies that those who claim to be Catholic vote at a higher percent Democrat than those that Claim to be Protestant or non-denominational Christian. When the numbers are broken into active Catholics and Active Protestants, particularly Active White Catholics and Active White Protestants, both are very much conservative voters.

In the case of Catholics, the heavy Latino Catholic vote helps to skew the active Catholic Vote a bit to the Left, as does the Black vote in the Protestant enclaves. When looking at active white Catholics or active white protestants they numbers are within a few percentage points one way or the other and have been for several election cycles.

I have never voted for a Democrat for any office higher than county level. I happen to live in a hugely Democrat county in a Republican run state.

Actually, I did vote for Hillary in the 2008 primaries against Obama as an active Member of Operation Chaos, but I went right home and showered afterwords.

[ansel12]

Look talking about your fellow church members attendance may fascinate you, but it doesn't fascinate me, nor does telling me that you don't personally vote democrat, I don't even know why you guys keep saying that.

As a pro-life conservative, the Catholic vote and immigration concerns me.

The democrats changed the immigration laws to import more Catholics, and non-Protestants, because JFK knew that the democrats needed them to have a future.

When one looks at white Catholics, they actual vote MORE conservative than their active Protestants counterparts.

That is nonsense as well, The white Catholic vote is nowhere near the white Protestant vote, the white Protestant vote averages more than 11 points higher than the white Catholic vote.

Besides, Hispanics actually come from a Catholic country, and only just started affecting the Catholic vote, which has almost always been democrat, and will remain so, and whites are leaving Catholicism.

Do you know how Hispanic Protestants voted in 2004? Republican by 56%. In 2008 it was 48%, which was 4 points lower than the White Catholics, in 2000

[ansel12]

Actually that last sentence wasn’t finished, Protestant Hispanics voted republican by 44% in 2000, 56% in 2004, and 48% in 2008.

On average, not terribly far from the white Catholic vote.

[MacNaughton]

28 ... They have now taken over the Boy Scouts - a traditional Protestant organization that, in my youth, Catholics were not allowed to join (true, folks, don’t give me any grief about it.) ...

I am aware that BSA history included some exclusion of black youth from troops in the Deep South, and probably other places. I've heard of Protestant discrimination against RCs and vice versa. The LDS and RCC were the 2 earliest religious denominations in the U.S. to adopt BSA as a male youth program so they could keep their boys "in the faith". Of the 70% of all BSA units which are chartered to religious denomnations, the LDS and RCC are #1 and #3 in size.

Your statement that BSA is a traditionally Protestant organization doesn't stand up to the facts.

[ansel12]

They have now taken over the Boy Scouts - a traditional Protestant organization that, in my youth, Catholics were not allowed to join (true, folks, don’t give me any grief about it.

According to Wikipedia, the Catholics and Mormons discriminated against the Boy Scouts.

"Since the BSA had early and enduring ties with the YMCA, a firmly Protestant organization, the Catholic church forbade their boys to join. The Catholics accepted the BSA in 1913, but troops would be Catholic only under Catholic adult leadership. Later that year, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints affiliated their Mutual Improvement Association with the BSA with similar restrictions."

[ansel12]

“On June 3, the National Catholic Committee on Scouting supported the decision of the BSA. Edward Martin, the committee’s national chairman, said the new policy to accept boys who are openly gay is “not in conflict with Catholic teaching.””

[livius]

Just a comment - much of the clergy sexual abuse in Ireland was not homosexual, but involved priests and teenage girls. This would include the famous case of the bishop (I don’t remember his see) who got his girlfriend pregnant, demanded she have an abortion - which she refused - but then did use church funds to support her and the child for some years.

In other words, the entire structure of sexual morality collapsed after Vatican II. And certainly the Catholic Church was not the only church in which this happened, and Ireland was not the only place it happened.

[miss marmelstein]

Oh, go away.

[miss marmelstein]

It was considered a Protestant organization when I was growing up in the late 50s and 60s by my Catholic school and community. I’m no expert on the Boy Scouts but that was how it was looked upon. I’m sure someone will chime in here claiming he was a good Catholic scout in 1959 but I am telling you of my own experience. The YMCA was also off limits. Not that either of these organizations during that time were considered bad - just Protestant.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Don’t be lazy. I gave you the sources. Look.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Don't be lazy. I gave you the sources, and the sources' bottom lines, that the Catholics aren't the only ones, or even the main ones.

Look.

[ansel12]

See post 67.

Your claimed memories of the Boy Scouts forbidding Catholic membership, is more pure nonsense.

To quote you ""Catholics were not allowed to join (true, folks, don’t give me any grief about it.) ""

1960 The Pope Pius XII emblem for older Scouts is presented for the first time.

1910 Boy Scouts of America is founded
1910 Troop 1 in St. Paul, Minnesota is the BSA's first Catholic chartered troop
1914 BSA creates a Catholic Bureau with Victor Ridder as National Commissioner
1922 The first Catholic Committee on Scouting (CCS) was created in New York by Victor Ridder and Brother Barnabas with Bishop Conroy as chairman
1932 Bishop Kelley expands the committee to include bishops from across the country
1933 The Plan of Cooperation is approved between BSA and the Bishops' Committee
1939 The Bishops' Committee becomes part of the bishops' conference
1939 The NCCS adopts the Ad Altare Dei - the first religious emblem. approved by BSA
1954 The St. George emblem is approved for adults
1956 The Parvuli Dei is approved as a Cub Scout religious emblem
1960 The Pope Pius XII emblem for older Scouts is presented for the first time

[ansel12]

No you haven’t.

Where is the breakdown on pedophilia and homosexual abuse by denomination?

[Mrs. Don-o]

That's for you to find. I gave you the conclusions reached by sources that can be reasonably expected to be free of bias: Phillips, who is a research academic, not Catholic or employed by Catholics; the church insurers, who have a strong bottom-line reason to be accurate about relative liability risks; and the John Jay Report, the only comprehensive research that has yet been done in the US (but it doesn't cover other countries.)

You lack evidence for what you allege about Catholic clergy and abuse.

And then you challenge me to make up for your lack of evidence! Priceless!

[miss marmelstein]

This is probably because of the makeup of the parish that I grew up in. We were NOT ALLOWED TO JOIN, OK? That is not ex cathedra so there can be different points of views on this. We were not allowed to join the Y either. We were not allowed to attend either Jewish or Protestant services. Why is this so difficult to comprehend?

[miss marmelstein]

You just posted from Wikipedia in which it was claimed that Catholics were not allowed to join the Boy Scouts - same with Mormons. You’re all over the place.

[ansel12]

Nonsense, and you are a female anyway, and just how old were you in the 1950s when Catholics were not banned, but you remember them as being banned by the Boy Scouts?

There was no banning of Catholics from membership in the Boy Scouts, ever.

See post 74.

[miss marmelstein]

You don’t know what you are talking about - you posted from Wikipedia that Mormons and Catholics were discouraged from joining. Where I grew up IT WASN’T ALLOWED. Now go lay down in a cool room with a wet towel across your brow.

(Why wouldn’t I know about the boy scouts, lol???) It was the same with the Girl Scouts and I had...brothers.