Posted on 05/28/2015 7:40:25 PM PDT by annalex
It’s not celibacy — it’s homosexuality that is the problem.
Respectfully, that wholly misses the point, which is why the RCC clergy is so thoroughly infested with homosexuals. You're making the same argument the gay movement makes about AIDS - it's not homosexual conduct, it's the HIV virus. But just like your argument, it begs the question of why people engaged in homosexual acts were getting infected by the virus at such an alarming rate.
Here, very clearly the RCC clergy is throughly ridden by homosexuals. The question is "why are gays so attracted to the RCC priesthood, such that they are so vastly overrepresented among the clergy?"
I answered the question above, but I kindly ask that you think about that question and I further kindly ask you to post here precisely why you believe the RCC has a homosexual problem among its clergy. Why? Could it be that maybe, just maybe, the priestly celibacy rule contributes in some way to the problem?
The question is not whether the RCC officially condones homosexual acts or any other sexual acts outside marriage. It doesn’t. But again, that’s not the question. The question is why the RCC is being destroyed by clerical sexual misconduct, most homosexual misconduct? Please, annalex, address this question directly: “Does the RCC rule mandating priestly celibacy contribute in any way to the very disproportionate number (compared to the population at large) of homosexual priests who are doing most of the misconduct?
You're not understanding the concept of "regulatory capture." The RCC's regulators - the ones who should be insisting on godly conduct among priests - are themselves thoroughly infiltrated and subverted by the lavender mafia. In fact, they really are the leaders of the lavender mafia in the RCC.
Good heavens, do you suppose Cardinal Bernadine of Chicago or Bishop Weakland of Milwaukee would ever actually enforce celibacy among the priests subordinated to them? Quite obviously, the answer is no.
This is why it breaks my heart to hear Salvation pin all hope on a new reform movement to weed out gays at the seminary level. Sorry, but that obviously is mere window dressing. The lavender mafia - which reaches into the heart of the Vatican and all the way down to the parish level - will simply subvert the effort, and indeed ultimately turn it to their collective benefit, ensuring that even more homosexual men are ordained.
It's like the way the Goldman Sachs et al have captured the federal financial regulators. In 2008 Hank Paulsen - an inner sanctum member of the banker clique if there ever was one - wasn't about to do what he should have done as an independent regulator and let Goldman Sachs et al take their lumps.
Truly, just like the case of Hank Paulsen regulating the financial sector, with the RCC we have a "fox guarding the henhouse" situation.
I agree that we must "insist" on sexual morality, especially among the clergy, but we have to be realistic about what needs to be done to accomplish that. Quite obviously, we must remove all homosexuals from the clergy and prevent all future ordinations of homosexuals. Realistically, how do we get there from here?
I described above what Stalin did to utterly change the CPSU - the diabolical geniuses who make the Russian Revolution - into a body that would carry out his orders. In short, he had to utterly replace the Party bureaucracy with an entire generational cohort new members. Stalin's tactics must not be ours, but the strategy must be the same.
THE CADRES DETERMINE EVERYTHING.
We must flood the ranks of the clergy with married men of good character. We can do this by ordaining thousands and thousands of married deacons and setting them loose. They will, unavoidably, run up against the lavender power structure in the RCC. These are the men who can cleanse the ranks of this filth. The RCC hierarchy as it is now constituted is simply incapable of anything approaching the sort of revolution in RCC personnel policy that is required.
He’ll do just fine...watch and see.(and pray for him!!!!)
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I agree with this 100%.
He is using a straw man argument to appeal to the world.
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Wow! Either the Pope told you this directly or you claim to have the power to know his motivation.
How is it more backward than our own country at the present time? Have you ever been there?
Amen! ;-)
Nothing will work until the RCC scraps once and for all the celibacy rule for priests.
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LOL! That claim is as old as the Church, but it is not true.
From what I can see the clergy is increasingly lavender.
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Do you need new glasses? I have seen and worked with a lot of new seminarians and the majority are on-fire followers of Christ who are willing to sacrifice for Him.
Your experience is quite different from mine. As far as I can see they’re almost all queer.
While there certainly is a problem with homosexual behavior in the RCC clergy, I don't think that it is, at all, out of proportion to either clergy of other faiths nor men in general.Celibacy applies to all sexual activity, not just heterosexual copulation.
“Maybe the next one will be better.”
Oremus...
or I can just spot the obvious.
...or I can just spot the obvious.
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SURE you can .../sarc
Perhaps you have tunnel vision....or worse.
You’ve made some excellent points. I’ll mangle this reference, but if I recall it correctly, we are “of” this world but are not to be “in” it. The problems the RCC faces today are, unfortunately, largely due to its failure to attack secular humanism at its root.
What you’ve run into here is something I’ve only recently begun to understand and that is Nihilism. There are so many anymore that believe in nothing and are offended that some believe in something, particularly in something beyond purely human experience and understanding. Not only do they believe in nothing, they are intent on insuring that any professions of belief are doggedly attacked and they are intent on insuring that just like them, no one believes in anything whatsoever.
Fight on, but the “resistance” is becoming ever more intense and radicalized.
You are on to something, and I think you are quite correct.
Nihilism is it’s own religion.
Your scripture reference is exactly to the point. However, it reads... that while we are to be “in” the world, we are not to be “of” the world.
The reason I believe that particular scripture is so important today is that it is a helpful and fine measure of things, by which the people of God are able to discern who is guarding and defending the Truth as revealed by God, from those who would take the 30 pieces of silver to betray the Truth and the revelation of God handed down to his Church. “By their fruits we shall know them.” (And by our fruits, we are also known, of course.)
The Church “can not serve two masters” is also another important scripture measure. Today, all standards are being tested and certainly the Church is included, by the fallen standards of the world.
We shall soon see how the shepherds of the Church will stand or fall. That Jesus said, “My sheep hear my voice” is quite comforting to His little flock.
May God kindly bless you and yours. Rita
The Church exited for 20 centuries with celibate men of good character; there is no shortage of them now.
The idea to diffuse the unique aspect of the Western Church by removing the celibacy requirement is in itself no better than the diabolical attacks from the left. They, too, see humanity as centered around the question of finding sexual release and consequently it is the celibate men of the Church that they correctly perceive as enemy.
Again, you misstate the problem. The issue is not celibacy per se, which indeed was no doubt a good thing at one time. The issue is rather that the celibacy rule in the conditions of modern society with its limitless options for healthy, intelligent and ambitious young men, has become the reason for the homosexual problem in the clergy.
Imagine that you're the head of HR for a large corporation. If you had a rule that led directly to the recruitment of large numbers of undesirables whose presence alienated the corporation from its core customer base and thereby constituted a vital threat to the very survival of the company, you would certainly change the rule.
That's precisely the situation with the RCC now. They have a major, major HR problem, which is that in modern society the celibacy rule lends itself to the recruitment into the ranks of the clergy very disproportionate numbers of homosexuals. To make matters even worse, the problem has gone on for so long that the ranks of RCC management have been thoroughly infiltrated and subverted by homosexuals who understand that the celibacy rule is the key driver of their position and their power. As a result, the very people who the RCC would look to for effective leadership in addressing their HR problem are deeply invested in ensuring that the problem is never effectively addressed.
Your "it worked for 20 centuries" argument sounds ver much like "famous last words." Absolute monarchy worked for just the longest time, too, but the times changed and those institutions, like, say, the French monarchy, who were too brittle to recognize the social tidal shift wound up getting swept away.
So, too, the pollyanas in the RCC refuse to see that the celibacy rule has long since become an lethal liability for the RCC. It just cost them Holy Ireland. It probably already has cost them Poland, Austria, and Croatia. Latin America is pulling away. And still so many remain in complete flight from reality as to the nature and severity of the RCC's personnel crisis.
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