GREEK VERBS QUICK REFERENCE (Studying the Bible)

http://www.preceptaustin.org/new_page_40.htm#present imperative ^

[Biggirl]

Both languages are important. Those languages were around at the time of the Lord Jesus.

[verga]

Interesting that you should bring this up again:

Did God really say....?

Questioning the word of God and trying to cast doubt into people’s minds about its veracity is NOT the work of the Holy Spirit.

The Phrase autoiv touto estin (This is my) appears 13 times in the New Testament. Not a single time is the word estin translated as anything other than is

Estin- is 3rd person singular active indicative in Greek

Mat 3:17 and behold, a voice out of the heavens, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased."

Mat 3:17 kai idou fwnh ek twn ouranwn legousa outov estin o uiov mou o agaphtov en w eudokhsa

So, is Jesus the Son of God, or does he represent the son of God? Mat 17:5 While he was still speaking, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them; and behold, a voice out of the cloud, saying, "This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased; listen to Him!"

Mat 17:5 eti autou lalountov idou nefelh fwteinh epeskiasen autouv kai idou fwnh ek thv nefelhv legousa outov estin o uiov mou o agaphtov en w eudokhsa tsbautou akouete aautou

Again, is Jesus the Son of God, or does he represent the son of God?

Mat 26:26 And while they were eating, Jesus took some bread, and after a blessing, He broke it and gave it to the disciples, and said, "Take, eat; this is My body."

Mat 26:26 esqiontwn de autwn labwn o ihsouv ton arton kai euxaristhsav euloghsav eklasen kai douv edidou toiv maqhtaiv tsbkai eipen labete fagete touto estin to swma mou

This is the same estin. By what logic do you change the estin here to mean ‘represents’? There is no logic to support your tradition.

Mat 26:28 for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins.

Mat 26:28 touto gar estin to aima mou to thv kainhv diaqhkhv to peri pollwn ekxunnomenon ekxunomenon eiv afesin amartiwn

This is the same estin. By what logic do you change the estin here to mean ‘represents’? There is no logic to support your tradition.

Mar 9:7 And there came a cloud overshadowing them: and there came a voice out of the cloud, This is my beloved Son: hear ye him.

Mar 9:7 καὶ ἐγένετο νεφέλη ἐπισκιάζουσα αὐτοῖς, καὶ ἦλθε φωνή ἐκ τῆς νεφέλης λέγουσα· οὗτός ἐστιν ὁ Υἱός μου ὁ ἀγαπητός· αὐτοῦ ἀκούετε.

This is the same estin, did Jesus represent God’s son, was He a metaphor for God’s son? Mar 14:22 And while they were eating, He took some bread, and after a blessing He broke it; and gave it to them, and said, "Take; this is My body."

Mar 14:22 kai esqiontwn autwn labwn o ihsouv arton euloghsav eklasen kai edwken autoiv kai eipen labete fagete touto estin to swma mou

This is the same estin. By what logic do you change the estin here to mean ‘represents’? There is no logic to support your tradition.

Mar 14:24 And He said to them, "This is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many.

Mar 14:24 kai eipen autoiv touto estin to aima mou to thv kainhv diaqhkhv to ekxunnomenon uper peri pollwn ekxunomenon

This is the same estin. By what logic do you change the estin here to mean ‘represents’? There is no logic to support your tradition.

Luk_9:35 And a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my Son, my chosen: hear ye him.

Luk 9:35 καὶ φωνὴ ἐγένετο ἐκ τῆς νεφέλης λέγουσα· οὗτός ἐστιν ὁ υἱός μου ὁ ἀγαπητός· αὐτοῦ ἀκούετε.

This is the same estin. By what logic do you change the estin here to mean ‘represents’? There is no logic to support your tradition.

Luk 22:19 And he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he brake it, and gave to them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

This is the same estin. By what logic do you change the estin here to mean ‘represents’? There is no logic to support your tradition.

Luk 22:19 καὶ λαβὼν ἄρτον εὐχαριστήσας ἔκλασε καὶ ἔδωκεν αὐτοῖς λέγων· τοῦτό ἐστι τὸ σῶμά μου τὸ ὑπὲρ ὑμῶν διδόμενον· τοῦτο ποιεῖτε εἰς τὴν ἐμὴν ἀνάμνησιν.

Luk 22:20 And the cup in like manner after supper, saying, This cup is the new covenant in my blood, even that which is poured out for you.

Luk 22:20 ὡσαύτως καὶ τὸ ποτήριον μετὰ τὸ δειπνῆσαι λέγων· τοῦτο τὸ ποτήριον ἡ καινὴ διαθήκη ἐν τῷ αἵματί μου, τὸ ὑπὲρ ὑμῶν ἐκχυνόμενον.

Joh_15:12 This is my commandment, that ye love one another, even as I have loved you.

Joh 15:12 αὕτη ἐστὶν ἡ ἐντολὴ ἡ ἐμή, ἵνα ἀγαπᾶτε ἀλλήλους καθὼς ἡγάπησα ὑμᾶς.

Same estin was this the commandment of Jesus or did t represent or was a metaphor for His commandment?

Is = Is. In English and Greek. Your man made tradition says Is = represents.

[Kolokotronis]

“It is especially simple to acquire if one has already learned about grammar in any well-structured language, and more so if one has learned the Greek alphabet.”

I grew up speaking Greek, Demotic. I went to “Greek School” in elementary school and learned to read and write katherevusa. In the altar we boys learned Byzantine Greek. Ancient and koine Greek came in high school and college. It’s a lovely language. When I speak or read it, quite literally my world view, my “phronema” changes. For that reason alone a Christian should make every effort to learn Greek.

[delchiante]

Both languages were around but the name Jesus wasn’t.

An oddity

[RnMomof7]

Thank you... very often for a correct understanding of scripture this must be understood..

[RnMomof7]

BUMP

[imardmd1]

That's the lind of "expert" worthy of envy. I know so little of the Koine, but even that brings a great joy that it is the language of the Holy Spirit. It also helps me to appreciate my own tongue, which still employs so much of it. Latin just does not give me a thrill. My Mounce textbook urges the student to just read the Greek through often, pronouncing it correctly whether knowing all the words or not, insisting that we will never master the Greek unless we can read it. I know that in Heaven I will be learning it and Hebrew, for that is the form of His Word that He holds above His Name. I guess, at 78, I'm just trying to learn early and anticipate the tongues of angels.

In your FR username, the accemt is on the second "ko"?

[left that other site]

Thank you for this! :-)

[Fester Chugabrew]

It is overly simplistic to attribute errors in the Church to lack of a single, reliable English translation. It is also overly combative to insist that you alone hold to the most reliable English translation of Sacred Scripture. If your point is to correct and admonish you would do well to adopt a more conciliatory tone, and to address something of greater consequence. How does the KJV translate, “Knowledge puffs up. Love builds up?”

[ealgeone]

NASB is the most literal translation.

[Kolokotronis]

“In your FR username, the accemt is on the second “ko”?”

No, it’s on the “tron”. In Greek the accent is almost always on the second syllable from the end. Often, you’ll see accent marks over the appropriate syllable.

For my money, Byzantine Greek is the most beautiful to the ear. It is ennobling. When we chant at the Divine Liturgy, the notion that we are chanting with choirs of angels becomes a tangible reality.

Here’s an example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pieQ1SIBvRo&index=40&list=RDWokZnpD3DOg

[ealgeone]

Greek is what you need to study

[Iscool]

While I thinks it's good to study foreign languages I don't see the advantage when things that are clear become foggy...

Look at the verb sin. At first glance the verse seems to imply that one who is "born of God" can never commit a sin and yet all genuine believers know that this is not a reality (1John 1:8, 2Chr 6:36, Ec 7:20, James 3:2).

But it is a reality...While we do commit sin there is no sin attributed to us...

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Rom_4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

So while we do commit sin, we do not sin...

When you understand that the verb sin is in the present tense, it becomes clear that John is saying that one who is born of God cannot habitually commit sins as their general pattern of life. The verb "practices" is also present tense and conveys the same thought. All believers commit sins but not habitually or as their lifestyle.

Some 'real' Christians smoke cigarettes their entire lives...Some Christians habitually over eat...I think the word 'practices' throws off the meaning of the verse...

And so one can see that in 1John 3:9 (as in most of chapter 3 of first John) the accurate interpretation of the passage is aided by a proper understanding of the verb tense.

I believe the interpretation is already accurate...By changing it, a great doctrinal truth is covered up...That is; Jesus paid the full price...He takes ALL of our sin and puts it on himself...

1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

The entire sense of Jesus' poignant cry is “It was finished and as a result it is forever done!” “It stands finished!”

Seems to me the poignant cry is 'It IS finished, not was...It is finished 2000 years ago...It is finished tomorrow...

In Ephesians 2:8-note we read, “For by grace you have been saved through faith” where "have been saved" (sozo-word study) is in the perfect tense.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Same as the last one...We may have been saved but we ARE now saved as well...And we will still be saved tomorrow...

[Iscool]

The Bible has been riddled with transcription errors, deliberate additions and omissions, changes via translation, and many other issues. It’s like a centuries-long game of telephone. What comes out at our end isn’t quite what went in at the beginning.

Then God lied, eh??? He said he would preserve his 'words' forever...So who you gonna believe, God or men???

[Elsie]

you brood of vipers...

[imardmd1]

Thanks for the love message.

"It is written (perfect tense): 'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word (panti hremati, all words) that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.'"

If one deliberately edits the text to remove words whimsically, it is then not the Preserved Word of God. I made statements concerning transmission, translation, and interpretation that so indicate, and stated my opinion.

Why should I be conciliatory to something that apparently you have chosen to regard combative?

It is difficult to conceive anything of greater eternal consequence than the way that God' Word is handled (Ps. 138:2).

Re Melchizedek: "To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace; . . . "

"Love" in any form it takes, never supersedes righteousness. Knowledge is a tool of both, not their master.

And of knowledge? "There is gold, and a multitude of rubies: but the lips of knowledge are a precious jewel" (Prov. 20:15 AV).

[Fester Chugabrew]

I totally agree in regard to removing words “whimsically” as a detriment to faithful translation. The fact of the matter is, when it comes to language, that the same thing can be said in different ways. It is also a matter of fact that we do not have autographs for a single book of Sacred Scripture, which fairly well makes impossible any argument that would posit an English translation worthy of unchangeable adherence. Meanwhile, feel free to elaborate on what St. Paul writes by the Holy Spirit in regard to the distinction between knowledge and love.

[verga]

Thank you for yet another asinine reply that has no bearing on the topic.

[metmom]

So, do you think Jesus is made out of wood, too?

He did say “I am the door.”

When He said that He was the bread, was He at that point made of flesh and blood, or was He at that point, made of bread dough?

If you’re going to take it literally, then He was made of bread dough when He was speaking to them.

[RnMomof7]

If you’re going to take it literally, then He was made of bread dough when He was speaking to them.

Ohhhhhh nooooooo :)