Posted on 07/01/2015 7:13:05 AM PDT by RnMomof7
Recently there has been a surge in prominent Evangelicals calling for unity with Roman Catholicism. In one sense there seems to be strong foundational similarities that would justify these calls to unity. Catholics are baptized in the name of the Trinity. God’s revealed word in the Bible -- setting aside their addition of the Apocryphal books, for argument’s sake -- is foundational to their worldview. Catholics love Christ and believe that he died on the cross and rose again to provide grace for sinners.
Obviously there are theological differences associated with the specific teachings of each one of these perceived similarities, and I do not want to minimize the importance of these differences. But for argument‘s sake, at least on the surface, there is some common ground.
There is also a strong agreement in ethical standards. Both Roman Catholics and Evangelicals ground morality on God’s holy nature as revealed in the law of God. This means that on the hot button moral issues of the day; the murder of the unborn, human sexuality, the sanctity of marriage there is solidarity between Roman Catholic and Evangelical ethics because they are coming from the same source. Again, this seems to justify a call to some sense of unity.
Are these good enough reasons to publically stump for visible unity with Roman Catholics? That question is beyond the scope of this post. But there is a more fundamental question that must be answered first. That question serves as the dividing line between followers of Christ and the world, which separates biblical Christianity from every other worldview; does Rome possess and preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ?
The author of the book of Hebrews in chapter 10 contrasts the gospel with that which is but a shadow of the gospel. He argues:
"And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified." -- Heb 10:11–14
The argument being presented here makes it clear that Christ’s singular sacrifice, his death on the cross, perfects those for whom it is made for. This is the gospel. It is contrasted with the shadow of the gospel in which sacrifices were repeatedly made year after year because though they symbolized the atoning and perfecting sacrifice of Christ, they never themselves perfected those for whom they were made. The gospel of Jesus Christ perfects and any other religious strategies cannot.
This principle is directly applicable to the question of Roman Catholicism and the gospel of God. Roman Catholic worship centers on the mass. The mass is a series of liturgical practices that culminates in the Eucharist which according to paragraph 1068 of the Catholic of the Catholic Church (hereafter CCC) is a divine sacrifice. Paragraph 1367 of CCC calls the Eucharist a “truly propitiatory” sacrifice. This sacrifice is performed repeatedly in the life of a Catholic.
The reason the Eucharist is performed repeatedly is because even though it is claimed to be a propitiatory sacrifice that can make reparation for sins (CCC, 1414), it is a sacrifice that never perfects anyone. According to the Catholic message grace is something that you get from God by performing certain acts. First, God gives you the grace for faith in Jesus (CCC, 2000). Second, when you are baptized God graciously erases the sin of Adam from your record (CCC 1257). From that point on you get more grace by doing things like participating in the sacraments, including the Eucharist. The problem is that when you commit sins, you lose some of the grace you have gained and now need more lest your grace be found wanting at final judgment. This forces the Catholic into a position where they need to return day after day, week after week, and year after year to a priest who serves to repeatedly re-present the same sacrifice which never perfects those for whom it is made, since it only offers grace to cover some sin.
This is not the gospel.
Roman Catholics need the gospel for the same reason we all need it. We are all sinners with such a messed up and low view of how holy holiness really is that we think somehow through our own efforts we can attain it. If we just had enough time and willpower we could somehow have our good deeds outweigh our bad, and this will please God just enough for me to be acceptable to him. This is a satanic lie. A satanic lie that to some degree or another we have all bought into at some point in our life.
But the truth is glorious. God is good and God is holy. He is more good and more holy than we can possibly imagine. God is so good and so holy that anything less than absolute perfection is unacceptable in his presence. It is because of God’s awesome goodness and awesome holiness that in his wisdom he has offered us grace, through faith in Christ. A good and holy sacrifice that absolutely without question completely perfects everyone for whom it is made.
Compared to Pope John 23rd, or Pius 12. And, 23rd was kin! If you like the socialistic new pontiff, good on ya! But, not me! I think I’ll become Lutheran.
“...it is a sacrifice that never perfects anyone...”
Of course it doesn’t perfect anyone!
It is not MEANT to perfect anyone and that is not the purpose of the mass!!! Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross does the perfecting. Why would anyone teach otherwise?
The mass is a MEMORIAL sacrifice. “Do this in MEMORY” of me. This is per the instruction of scripture. 1 Corinthians 23-26 We remember “in the Spirit” in order to worship Jesus in gratitude for his work on the cross for us.
The mass simultaneously takes us in mystical time to the eucharist in heaven and the one that already occurred here on the cross. Hebrews 10:12 It is a mystical time travel that allows us to be on calvary with Jesus.
The Hebrew word anamnasis that is used in the original has the meaning in Hebrew of actually bringing the past together into/with the present.
We become present at the actual cross “in the Spirit (the Holy Spirit).
A.D. Robles is clueless about what Catholicism actually teaches; why would we listen to his interpretation/ attempt to exlain away Catholicism?
Robles completely misses the point that the mass is not a means of perfection, it is a means of WORSHIP as instructed in the bible. The mass IS perfection in the sense that the Lord’s death on the cross was perfect (Hebrews 10:12) and we are there again, but the mass accomplishes the process of taking us there again who weren’t present at the time; it allows us to be there.
Of course...Jesus didn't make us sinless...As you said, Jesus saves US from OUR sins...
One big problem is our definition of sin...We don't like to call those little things sin...People seem to be so ignorant of the perfect righteousness that's required for a person to be in the presence of God...
You people seems to have some skewed vision of God and put him in the abstract....
'God is the Catholic Church'...'You must eat a cracker to attain eternal life' (you won't get your filthy lips any where near a righteous God to 'sacrifice' him)...God could spit one time and drown the entire world...
God wants us to worship HIM...Are we going to do it imperfectly??? Absolutely...God judges our heart, not our appearance to you...
The Holy Spirit is ever working in the heart of the Christian to convict him/her of those things that are unpleasing to Him...If you aren't convicted of those little sins you and we all commit, you might want to question whether you are 'one of His'...
You and I commit the same sins of those you claim are ok with sin...We just don't like to call it sin...
Do you people even know what love your brother means??? Here's the definition:
Jas_4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
Amen.
If people do not donate, then they do not believe in free speech. Bless their hearts.
There are other threads about terrorists. If y’all do not like this thread go to the others. I do that on here and on FB if I am not interested in what is being said. Others have the right to post what they believe but I do not have to read it. I have a question. Are y’all trying to censor remarks?
Interesting take of a RC writer
What did Christ's suffering and death actually accomplish that allowed the Father to provide the human race with salvation? Did Christ take within himself the sin and guilt of mankind and suffer the specific punishment for that sin and guilt, as Protestants contend? The answer is no...Christ did not take upon himself the entire punishment required of man for sin. Rather, Scripture teaches only that Christ became a 'propitiation,' a 'sin offering,' or a 'sacrifice' for sins...Essentially, this means that Christ, because he was guiltless, sin-free and in favor with God, could offer himself up as a means of persuading God to relent of his angry wrath against the sins of mankind. Sin destroys God's creation. God, who is a passionate and sensitive being, is angry against man for harming the creation. Anger against sin shows the personal side of God, for sin is a personal offense against him. We must not picture God as an unemotional courtroom judge who is personally unharmed by the sin of the offender brought before him. God is personally offended by sin and thus he needs to be personally appeased in order to offer a personal forgiveness. In keeping with his divine principles, his personal nature, and the magnitude of the sins of man, the only thing that God would allow to appease him was the suffering and death of the sinless representative of mankind, namely, Christ (Robert Sungenis, Not By Faith Alone (Santa Barbara: Queenship, 1997), pp. 107-108)./font color>
The problem is they have no "list", they live their whole life never knowing if they are "good enough" or have" done enough".....Now the good enough has a "remedy "...sorta of.. in purgatory ... but done enough to merit it?? They can never be sure..
You do not build up the body of Christ by tearing down other Christians.
And Peter said to Jesus, ‘not so lord’ you can’t go to Jerusalem. What did Jesus respond?
haha!
I was like that in Bangkok in the early ‘60s!
Now now....
He's dead on theologically with his religion; right??
You have NO right to complain about anything else!
You've read these threads: Catholics are CONSTANTLY telling us Prots to look at the TEACHINGs; not the Doings!
Says a fella who says about boiling them other 'christians' in oil: that was then; this is now.
Be nice to us, 'cause we wuz FIRST!
If something comparable is happening, I don’t agree with that either. That, precisely, is my point. A site of many backgrounds, drawn together in a common fight against political, economic, and cultural disintegration, should not, in my opinion, become a forum to attack a denomination. I just don’t think Free Republic should be used this way. To me, the beauty of this site is that it draws us together based upon our shared love of this Republic, and our desire to preserve her.
1. Believe in Jesus Christ.
2. Be baptized.
3. Do not commit any mortal sins.
4. If after Baptism you commit a mortal sin seek God's forgiveness through the sacrament of Penance.
Is that list complete? Is there anything else you would like to place on that list? Please, only catholics are invited to this list, to add anything they perceive their Church teaches must accomplish to be Saved.
Is there any other item which should be on the list of things that must be accomplished fro a Catholic to obtain Salvation? You Catholics claim to know your religion better than any Protestants on FR, so please, make this list complete so we readers don’t miss anything vital, essential, absolutely required, for salvation as a Catholic. Baptism has been placed on the list. Are there any other sacraments through the Catholic Church which are essential for Salvation? God has called Christians to share the Gospel with all the world. Well, here we are, asking Catholics to share the absolute essentials for Salvation. Please, only Catholics add to this list if you believe it is essential and have been taught that by the Catholic Church.
Why? Why the Catholic Church rather than another church that follows the scripture?
Is there something you would see needs to be on the list?
Is there anything you believe should be on the list?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.