Posted on 07/01/2015 7:13:05 AM PDT by RnMomof7
Recently there has been a surge in prominent Evangelicals calling for unity with Roman Catholicism. In one sense there seems to be strong foundational similarities that would justify these calls to unity. Catholics are baptized in the name of the Trinity. God’s revealed word in the Bible -- setting aside their addition of the Apocryphal books, for argument’s sake -- is foundational to their worldview. Catholics love Christ and believe that he died on the cross and rose again to provide grace for sinners.
Obviously there are theological differences associated with the specific teachings of each one of these perceived similarities, and I do not want to minimize the importance of these differences. But for argument‘s sake, at least on the surface, there is some common ground.
There is also a strong agreement in ethical standards. Both Roman Catholics and Evangelicals ground morality on God’s holy nature as revealed in the law of God. This means that on the hot button moral issues of the day; the murder of the unborn, human sexuality, the sanctity of marriage there is solidarity between Roman Catholic and Evangelical ethics because they are coming from the same source. Again, this seems to justify a call to some sense of unity.
Are these good enough reasons to publically stump for visible unity with Roman Catholics? That question is beyond the scope of this post. But there is a more fundamental question that must be answered first. That question serves as the dividing line between followers of Christ and the world, which separates biblical Christianity from every other worldview; does Rome possess and preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ?
The author of the book of Hebrews in chapter 10 contrasts the gospel with that which is but a shadow of the gospel. He argues:
"And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified." -- Heb 10:11–14
The argument being presented here makes it clear that Christ’s singular sacrifice, his death on the cross, perfects those for whom it is made for. This is the gospel. It is contrasted with the shadow of the gospel in which sacrifices were repeatedly made year after year because though they symbolized the atoning and perfecting sacrifice of Christ, they never themselves perfected those for whom they were made. The gospel of Jesus Christ perfects and any other religious strategies cannot.
This principle is directly applicable to the question of Roman Catholicism and the gospel of God. Roman Catholic worship centers on the mass. The mass is a series of liturgical practices that culminates in the Eucharist which according to paragraph 1068 of the Catholic of the Catholic Church (hereafter CCC) is a divine sacrifice. Paragraph 1367 of CCC calls the Eucharist a “truly propitiatory” sacrifice. This sacrifice is performed repeatedly in the life of a Catholic.
The reason the Eucharist is performed repeatedly is because even though it is claimed to be a propitiatory sacrifice that can make reparation for sins (CCC, 1414), it is a sacrifice that never perfects anyone. According to the Catholic message grace is something that you get from God by performing certain acts. First, God gives you the grace for faith in Jesus (CCC, 2000). Second, when you are baptized God graciously erases the sin of Adam from your record (CCC 1257). From that point on you get more grace by doing things like participating in the sacraments, including the Eucharist. The problem is that when you commit sins, you lose some of the grace you have gained and now need more lest your grace be found wanting at final judgment. This forces the Catholic into a position where they need to return day after day, week after week, and year after year to a priest who serves to repeatedly re-present the same sacrifice which never perfects those for whom it is made, since it only offers grace to cover some sin.
This is not the gospel.
Roman Catholics need the gospel for the same reason we all need it. We are all sinners with such a messed up and low view of how holy holiness really is that we think somehow through our own efforts we can attain it. If we just had enough time and willpower we could somehow have our good deeds outweigh our bad, and this will please God just enough for me to be acceptable to him. This is a satanic lie. A satanic lie that to some degree or another we have all bought into at some point in our life.
But the truth is glorious. God is good and God is holy. He is more good and more holy than we can possibly imagine. God is so good and so holy that anything less than absolute perfection is unacceptable in his presence. It is because of God’s awesome goodness and awesome holiness that in his wisdom he has offered us grace, through faith in Christ. A good and holy sacrifice that absolutely without question completely perfects everyone for whom it is made.
Pagan blasphemy seems to sound good in Catholic ears. Got Wrath?
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
Maybe your better vehicle is not reading but a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWAmfRZwEJk
Yes, sir. T’ll try to choose better words that clearly refer to the quality of the debater’ proposition. Sorry I got excited and slid off the edge. My apology.
You forgot to include John 6:63 where Jesus Himself explains what He meant.
John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
Absolutely hellish looking.
The blood of the sacrificial lamb is NEVER eaten. It is poured out.
If any of the flesh/meat is eaten, it must be cooked first.
Do Catholics cook Jesus before they eat Him or do they eat the flesh raw?
Thank you, but please remember I am not your son. I have two fathers, a biological one and a Divine one, you are neither.
And so did you MM.
I have explained this before:
And Paul clarifies that quite nicely in Galatians. (Pay attention this time I am getting tired of having to repeat myself.)
Gal 5:16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are contrary the one to the other; that ye may not do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18 But if ye are led by the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these: fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousies, wraths, factions, divisions, parties,
Gal 5:21 envyings, drunkenness, revellings, and such like; of which I forewarn you, even as I did forewarn you, that they who practise such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
Gal 5:23 meekness, self-control; against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are of Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with the passions and the lusts thereof.
I think it would only be a problem to a person who doesn't realize that the word "flesh" is used in different ways in the NT.
For instance, Jesus assures His Apostles, after the resurrection, that he is not a "ghost," because he has flesh and bones, hands and feet, etc. Obviously Jesus is not excluded from the Kingdom of God; therefore the words are being used in different senses.
Dang!
This hidden 'revelation' of Revelation is a revelation to ME!
I know that 'them people' do NOT like the stuff I cut&paste from CATHOLIC sources on FR!
How does someone go from believing in the Real Presence to not believing. Oh, I almost forget, they never believed to start.
I'm glad we have guardrails installed to prevent TOO much damage!
Like Lucy; Jesus did some 'splainin' in verse 29 of that chapter...
Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
After seeing just the first 2 pictures; I thought the central figure was some kind of lizard/serpent thingy.
But after seeing the third; from a slightly different angle; I could tell it was, evidently, and angelic looking creature with long, flowing hair.
Pope Stephen VI (896–897), who had his predecessor Pope Formosus exhumed, tried, de-fingered, briefly reburied, and thrown in the Tiber.[1]
Pope John XII (955–964), who gave land to a mistress, murdered several people, and was killed by a man who caught him in bed with his wife.
Pope Benedict IX (1032–1044, 1045, 1047–1048), who "sold" the Papacy
Pope Boniface VIII (1294–1303), who is lampooned in Dante's Divine Comedy
Pope Urban VI (1378–1389), who complained that he did not hear enough screaming when Cardinals who had conspired against him were tortured.[2]
Pope Alexander VI (1492–1503), a Borgia, who was guilty of nepotism and whose unattended corpse swelled until it could barely fit in a coffin.[3]
Pope Leo X (1513–1521), a spendthrift member of the Medici family who once spent 1/7 of his predecessors' reserves on a single ceremony[4]
Pope Clement VII (1523–1534), also a Medici, whose power-politicking with France, Spain, and Germany got Rome sacked.
2 John 1:8-11 (KJV)
8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
How does a rational person get convinced that a non-leavened cracker and a sip of wine get converted into REAL flesh and REAL blood to begin with?
Oh yeah; they are gullible Catholics.
I bear you no malice, but I will oppose the blasphemous rites of a twisted religion called caatholicism whenever the opportunity arises. The Mass insults and mocks The Blood of Christ, the sacraments deny that a believer is born from above and is indwelt with God's Spirit Life from that birth moment on, not lost because of sin then regained, for God's Spirit is not on a YoYo string held by a catholic priesthood.
I was definitely in error to use that term, 'son' to end my post to you. e appear to have absolutely no family connections.
A certain poster for the catholic side of these debates has on their profile page a comment about being Born Again on a certain date, the date they entered the Catholic Church, were confirmed in the catholic church. Could such a person be born again then lose that status and have to reborn again?... Nicodemus appeared to have trouble with that syllogism, so it would not be the first time this issue has arisen in History.
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