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Locked on 07/23/2015 5:47:09 PM PDT by Jim Robinson, reason:
some people refuse to get it |
Posted on 07/21/2015 4:48:44 PM PDT by Salvation
Simple thing to illustrate:
GWT is found Revelation 20:11-15
JoJC is found... where?
By itself, that’s not an argument.
Their getting it wrong does not, by itself, show that we aren’t getting it right.
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* UH-ohhh - Now I've done it!
What propaganda are you referring to? The beliefs of a 2000-year-old Church with about 1 billion members? If so, that’s an extremely prideful comment, which God considers a sin.
I DID answer the question.
I am not *going to heaven again* but rather I was never NOT going to heaven because of my sins. That’s what I said when I said that I was STILL going to heaven.
And the comments about relationships and works can apply to ANY church or denomination that requires works or actions to get or remain in God’s favor.
There are other denominations, non-Catholic ones, besides Catholicism which teach that one can lose their salvation through sin. Those questions would apply to them as well.
And they are valid questions which are not derogatory remarks about Catholicism. Relationships are relationships.
If human relationships endure in spite of the behavior of the people involved, then the spiritual one connecting us to God does as well.
He is the loving heavenly Father, full of mercy and grace, who wants to save His people and wants people to be reconciled to Him.
And being our Father, we are His family, and family is forever. Really, even if a parent disowns their own child, they are still genetically family. They are family by birth and NOTHING can change that, whether someone wishes it to be so or not.
So those questions do remain and are valid.
Does disobedience invalidate or nullify relationships?
Wow, for being a hater, you sure “know” a lot about the Church, lol. FYI, Rome doesn’t teach that, so you need to get new sources. A devotion to Mary is purely optional and voluntary.
Wow, you’re all over the place with your ramblings today. What’s this about a sheet?
For the bride there is no ‘judgment’. The Judgment is a legal thing. In Christ there is therefore now no condemnation. The law is to condemn those in violation. The GWT is an application of the law as measuring rod. The Bride has passed from that orientation and is no longer measurable because we have His righteousness accounted for us. Our lawlessness was judged and dealt with on the Cross of Christ.
Not the point I was making, but more toward origins. Pretty easy to see.
So are you claiming to be sinless? Earlier in the thread you said ALL sin keeps you out of Heaven, but you seem to think you’re going to Heaven just because you’ve been saved. Ergo, you must consider yourself sinless, which I find astonishing.
What we do encounter when having a conversation are beliefs: that is, each other's perception of the truth, based on their, their denomination's, or whoever else's perception that may include. Only God knows the entire truth; that which we cannot really begin to perceive until we see Him face-to-face. Speaking civilly promotes dialogue and is conducive to discussion- as is adherence to the topic in the article that is posted.
"...and it's not being presented as you “feel” you need to be addressed then THAT is what the Moderator is for."
When a problem is addressed on multiple occasions, and yet persists, it is time to go to the next link in the chain of command.
"You are just as free as any other to state your beliefs....you should not though “expect”, as so many do, that your beliefs will not be addressed when they oppose other beliefs."
Addressing another's belief entails courtesy, even in the face of perceived discourtesy. I generally state things as, "I believe..." simply because the absolutes of "true" or "false" tend to shut down a discussion, rather than promote one: also because I am here to learn and share, not to impose my truths on anyone else.
The Bible is accepted as The Truth- errors lie in interpretation- but I daresay I believe mine just as strongly as you believe yours. Presentation of one's beliefs in forum is not the same as attempts to impose those beliefs on others here. I don't have problems with non-Catholics in my life. Ours is more an informative discussion: "As a ......, I believe this..." both stated and answered with mutual respect. "Otherwise opposing false doctrines as others might believe is what debate is about"
Rather, debate is an intelligent discussion between two people or groups of people with differing opinions.
Opposition of doctrines perceived as being false, by using insults; deviating from the subject matter posted; using age-old derogatory terms, etc. is degradation and proselytization.
The article had two keywords: "catholic" and "heaven"; was from a Catholic publication directed to Catholics: stating what we believe, not imposing it on anyone. Soon came those of other opinion, declaring that THEIRS was the only truth; converging on our discussion, before it could even get started, like vultures on carrion. "...and how the truth is revealed when allowed to be expressed."
Again, it is one's perception of the truth, expressed intelligently and courteously, without misrepresentation, which is not often the case here. For example, this is the post I made, to which you are responding:
***And I say ‘none’ should be running to Jim Robinson Courtesy Ping with complaints...*** That is your opinion. You're stating it without getting yourself or whatever you believe bashed. It would be nice if we Catholics were able to state our beliefs without the bashing. Simple: common courtesy.
FWIW, I'm not the one who reported, although I heartily agree that it should have been. Why? Because, of late, our caucus threads have not only been invaded, but arguments put up about it being a caucus threadby people who came in with anti-Catholic posts.
As for the post to which I am responding: a person reading that post would think the original post quite different than it actually was- hence the quote in blue. Responses should accurately represent the post to which the response was directed. " BTW..I certainly have been bashed by catholics so you have presumed wrongfully....I either respond, don't respond, or leave the thread until the heat cools down a bit.....you too have that same choice....nobody has taken that from you."
I am a beyond-middle-aged Catholic professional: although ill health forced me to stop working, I remain a responsible, intelligent adult. I needn't be spoken to as if I were a petulant child, thank you. BTW, whether or not you like Catholics, the word as you used it is a proper noun, and should be capitalized. If our Faith is not respected, we should at least be shown respect as individuals. That's where good, productive discussion begins and should end: respectfully.
God bless you!
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That “someone else” was the apostle John, in the Revelation 20.
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Keep on doing it!
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That's a false accusation...The Catholic religion isn't even mentioned in metmom's response to you...
I hope you’re not going to become another problem child. We have more than our share already.
I did illustrate it...
GWT is found Revelation 20:11-15
At the end of all things...When unsaved people are sent into outer darkness with Satan...
JoJC is found... where?
It is found in the Epistles to the church...It is written to saved Christians, only...No one goes to hell or outer darkness...
Sounds very mormon to me. (although the WWCOG taught a similar idea for a while)
What point are you making?
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There was no judgment prior to the GWT ever mentioned in the scriptures.
The Bride (all those that remain in full faith to their end) are protected from the “second death” by grace. They will be saved in their incorruptible bodies at the last trump, 1000 years before the GWT.
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