Gay Catholics Push for Church Weddings

Aletelia ^ | July 29, 2015 | JOHN BURGER

[NYer]

When the Supreme Court ruling came down in late June, extending the right to marriage to members of the same sex in all 50 states, some observers felt that the Catholic Church was fairly immune to any requirements that it would have to allow same-sex weddings before her altars.

Now, though, calls for the Church to allow such nuptials are bubbling up. How far they will get is another question.

The issue was raised Tuesday by a report in the New York Times that featured “gay and transgender Catholics” who are making noises with the approaching visit to these shores of Pope Francis. And the noises are not exactly joyful.

“While some American conservatives are eager to see Pope Francis make use of his popularity on this trip to advance the fight against abortion and same-sex marriage, gay Catholics want him to acknowledge their rejection by the Church, and to welcome them as full members with equal access to sacraments like baptism and marriage,” the report said.

The article’s lede focused on an incident in which a young transgendered Catholic was put off by another member of the congregation who, perhaps indiscreetly, suggested that the person not go up to receive Communion.

While such an incident cannot be taken as emblematic of an entire Church’s collective treatment of “sexual minorities,” as some like to call homosexuals and persons who believe they were born with a body of the wrong sex, the Times found several people who believe otherwise. In fact, the paper said, “a large group of gay and transgender Catholics...are seeking a meeting with the Pope during his first visit to the United States, in September, pushing him to take a stand on the issues of sexuality and gender that are increasingly dividing Catholics and causing rancor in the Church.”

Marianne Duddy-Burke, executive director of DignityUSA, said that many homosexual Catholics face constant torture in the Church, in situations ranging from denial for a child’s baptism or hearing something offensive in a homily. She wants to meet with Pope Francis when he comes, to share such “stories of pain and alienation,” which “do real harm to people.”

“It needs to end,” she said.

A July 5 press release issued by Dignity, which has been denied Catholic status by the Church because it advances viewpoints contrary to doctrine, said that members meeting for the organization’s national convention voted to begin advocating for “equal access to all of the sacraments of the Catholic Church for LGBT people and their families.”

“We can’t be fully equal if we are barred from any of our Church’s sacraments,” said Duddy-Burke. “Right now, we are officially banned from marriage and ordination, and often denied other sacraments, as well."

Earlier this month, the Episcopal Church in the United States voted to allow sacramental wedding ceremonies of same-sex couples. 

Dignity’s convention took place in the bright afterglow of the Supreme Court’s Obergefell v. Hodges decision, which said any remaining state laws banning same-sex “marriage” are unconstitutional. At the same time, the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops expressed support for a congressional bill that would help protect the Church and other religious institutions under the new “law of the land.” The First Amendment Defense Act, introduced by Sen. Mike Lee, R-UT, and Rep. Raul Labrador, R-ID, would prohibit the federal government from discriminating against individuals and organizations based upon their religious beliefs or moral convictions that marriage is the union of one man and one woman or that sexual relations are properly reserved to such a marriage. For such individuals and organizations, the Act provides broad protections, including in the areas of federal contracts, grants, employment, and tax-exempt status.

The push for a meeting of same-sex-attracted Catholics with Pope Francis runs contrary to one of the main reasons for the Pontiff’s first American visit. The last event on his five-day schedule will be in Philadelphia: the closing Mass for the World Meeting of Families, a triennial event meant to strengthen the natural family founded on the marriage of a man and woman. The Church and many Catholics have been supporting such initiatives as a way to counter the growing acceptance of “alternative” relationships and families.

That’s not stopping some from pushing a different agenda, of course. The Times reports that about 14 families with gay or transgender members have registered to attend the World Meeting of Families. Deb Word, president of Fortunate Families, a support group for Catholic parents seeking full inclusion of their gay children in the church, said her group applied to have a table in the exhibit hall, but was rejected.
 

“We wanted to go and share resources on how you can safeguard your child’s long-term health by using loving acceptance in your home. It doesn’t sound like a scary message, does it?” said Ms. Word…. In Philadelphia, she will be wearing a small rainbow ribbon pin and carrying a bag of literature for Catholics she meets who express interest.

As the Times pointed out, though the Pope’s words during an in-flight interview, “Who am I to judge?” have been interpreted to mean that he is open to a new understanding of homosexuality in the Church, he has perhaps more often spoken out strongly in support of orthodoxy. On a visit to the Philippines in January, Pope Francis said that “the family is threatened by growing efforts” to “redefine the very institution of marriage,” the Times noted. He also criticized wealthy Western countries for imposing their ideas about gender on developing countries, calling it “ideological colonization.”

A month later, he was quoted in a book saying that “gender theory,” which holds that gender is a social construct, is one of the great modern dangers to humanity, like nuclear weapons.
 

[Mrs. Don-o]

What a devious way he has of supporting gay mariage!

[Mrs. Don-o]

Gay adoption, too.

[Mrs. Don-o]

News flash: Pope still Catholic.

[Mrs. Don-o]

They are not banned from marriage. They can marry on the same basis as anybody else: if they find a consenting, eligible person of the opposite sex.

[Mrs. Don-o]

What?

[caww]

My cues are being taken from how the Homosexual Community is responding to Pope Francis saying..., "Who am I to judge a gay person?" and further added.... "You can't marginalize these people."

On the other hand Benedict XVI in 2005 wrote that homosexuality was “a strong tendency ordered toward an intrinsic moral evil,” and an “objective disorder.” The church documents say men with “deep-seated homosexual tendencies” should not become priests.

...So Pope Francis 'softened greatly' the churches position 'in the eyes of the homosexual community'....They saw a door opening by Pope Francis and touted so after he did so...a door they are going to barge right on through which we see now...and said as much.

How catholic ‘membership’ sees it isn't the deciding factor if the Magesterium determines otherwise. Vatican ll comes to mind.

[Mrs. Don-o]

"Hate the sin, love the sinner."

Exactly.

Three paragraphs from the Catechism on Homosexuality

...that everybody should know.

[caww]

Please refer to post 86...you are coming from the position of where a catholic member understands the churches position....that’s not how the gay community understood Francis’s statements...as well as some of the Bishops etc.

[caww]

***”Hate the sin, love the sinner.”...Exactly.***

That’s not what Jesus said...he said... “Go and sin no more”...John 8:11

[Mrs. Don-o]

Thank you, kociusko51, for your thoughtful posts.

Anybody guilty of mortal sin (and deviant intercourse is a mortal sin) is ineligible from Holy Communion unless and until they repent and confess their sin in the Sacrament of Reconciliation.

But the thing is, it is up to the sinner to realize they need to get to Confession. Noboy gives a polygraph test to the people coming up for Communion to find out if they have repented and confessed their sins.

It would do a whole lot of good, though, if we heard a whole lot more about this from the pulpit. I sent a long e-mail to a visiting priest just last week, begging him to address such topics from the pulpit. To his credit, he got right back to me and said he knew he should man up and do this.

[Mrs. Don-o]

"I think the notion that there are people that God created who are genetically gay is not based in sound theology."

I understand what you're getting at here, bu let me say I don't think it makes much difference whether it is genetic or not.

"Gay" or "straight," nobody's allowed to practice deviant intercourse.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Canon 915

"Those who have been excommunicated or interdicted after the imposition or declaration of the penalty and others obstinately persevering in manifest grave sin are not to be admitted to Holy Communion."

So open, defiant,active gays are not eligible for Communion; but the question is, how does the priest, deacon or other person distributing Communion, know whether in a particular case all four elements referred to are simultaneously present:

• a sin,
• which is grave,
• which is manifest,
• and which is obstinately persevered in.

The action must be a sin in the eyes of the Church, not merely something distasteful or irritating (e.g. an oddball who kinda sorta "acts gay" -- swishy, etc.)

The sinful action must be "seriously disruptive of ecclesiastical or moral order". Deviant intercourse certainly qualifies.

To be manifest, the sin must be known to a large part of the community, a condition not easily met in an anonymous urban parish. Public withholding of the Eucharist for little-known "unpublicized" sins, even grave sins, is not permitted under canon law.

[caww]

I’ve stated nothing regarding gay marriage nor gay adoption neither where your church stands on those issues. The issue is how the gay community understood what Pope Francis said....which encouraged them further to “push” for more....thus the threads topic.

Now let me also say this....I do believe firmly that the mind of many homosexuals can no longer discern the things of God ore than talking the talk because as I see it their hearts have turned from God. So they will indeed take what the Pope might say and twist it to suite their agenda, and will obviously. Which is why I believe it’s a very tricky ground to walk in “giving” homosexuals encouragement by offering them anything other than forgiveness, should they seek it, and restoration with the church family. As with any grecious sin the idea is seeking restoration....

However that is not the direction the homosexual coummnity is taking with the church....they want their sexual preference deemed as a lifestyle...and their membership as no different then those who remain faithful to the Lord.....which they are not, by practicing homosexual behavior.

[murron]

That just happened at a Catholic Church here in Louisiana. The priest presiding over a homosexual’s mother’s funeral denied Communion to said homosexual. The local media made a big deal out of it, and our wussie Archbishop publicly apologized to the homo, thereby throwing the priest under the bus for doing the right thing. I never give to the collection.

[Mrs. Don-o]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3317794/posts?page=92#92

[Defiant]

bu let me say I don't think it makes much difference whether it is genetic or not.

[Kolokotronis]

“There are those who have SSAD, but are celibate. I know a few.”

We have several in our parish, I think. All are active members of the parish and hard workers. All but one are celibate and receive the sacraments. The one fellow who has been with his partner for many’ many years, does not present himself for communion, does not make any public spectacle of his living arrangements and his partner has never been to church so far as I know. We also have a number of straight people who live in meritricious relationships. Priests over the years have barred them from communion and now they don’t presen themselves for the sacrament either. The rules apply to everyone.

[Mrs. Don-o]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3317794/posts?page=96#96

Did you want to add something?

[Mrs. Don-o]

I think you're right about everybody having innate morally flawed tendencies. Most Christian Churches in fact teach this (if they are aware of Original Sin and its consequences) -- and yet so we don't think hard enough about the implications of this.

With regard to homosexuals, it doesn't mean they have an inborn tendency to sin, "unlike us". It means they have an inborn tendency to sin, just like the rest of us.

We need Jesus.

[IrishBrigade]

Remember all the lawsuits filed against all the priests of the Catholic Church?

Gee, all the Catholic priests were sued...? Every last one of them; who knew...?

A famous personage well known to those on this forum often says ‘words have meaning’...how true that is...