Posted on 08/12/2015 7:14:16 AM PDT by Salvation
Who told you that?
Did you read the article?
The author addresses your point.
” “He will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire” (1 Cor 3:15). Now this loss, this penalty, can’t refer to consignment to hell, since no one is saved there; and heaven can’t be meant, since there is no suffering (”fire”) there. The Catholic doctrine of purgatory alone explains this passage.”
On the contrary. The passage itself is clear enough:
“I, like an architect who knows his job, by the grace God has given me, lay the foundation; someone else builds upon it. I only say this, let the builder be careful how he builds! The foundation is laid already, and no one can lay another, for it is Jesus Christ himself. But any man who builds on the foundation using as his material gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay or stubble, must know that each man’s work will one day be shown for what it is. The day will show it plainly enough, for the day will arise in a blaze of fire, and that fire will prove the nature of each man’s work. If the work that the man has built upon the foundation will stand this test, he will be rewarded. But if a man’s work be destroyed under the test, he loses it all. He personally will be safe, though rather like a man rescued from a fire.”
It talks about the reward for working well under the Lord, and the lack of reward for those who build badly. Not punishment for someone “still imperfectly purified”:
“But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus...” - Ephesians 2
Please notice the tenses - not “will seat us” but “seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus”.
“For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.”
Again, notice the timing. In God’s eyes, there is nothing left to forgive.
“He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” - John 3
“Therefore they said to Him, “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?” Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” - John 6
It is finished. There is a reason Purgatory is not mentioned.
A “vision of Mary” promised it:
“The Blessed Virgin of Mount Carmel has promised to save those who wear the scapular from the fires of hell; She will also shorten their stay in purgatory if they should pass from this world still owing some debt of punishment.
This promise is found in a Bull of Pope John XXII. The Blessed Virgin appeared to him and, speaking of those who wear the Brown Scapular, said, “I, the Mother of Grace, shall descend on the Saturday after their death and whomsoever I shall find in purgatory I shall free so that I may lead them to the holy mountain of life everlasting.””
http://www.sistersofcarmel.com/brown-scapular-information.php
Some powerful stuff there. I suspect it will impact me for the rest of my life. Everyone should read it, all of it. Everyone.
It also corroborates what many saints have written. In recent times, St. Faustina was shown a vision of heaven, hell and purgatory.
...I saw two roads. One was broad, covered with sand and flowers, full of joy, music and all sorts of pleasures. People walked along it, dancing and enjoying themselves. They reached the end without realizing it. And at the end of the road there was a horrible precipice; that is, the abyss of hell. The souls fell blindly into it; as they walked, so they fell. And their number was so great that it was impossible to count them. And I saw the other road, or rather, a path, for it was narrow and strewn with thorns and rocks; and the people who walked along it had tears in their eyes, and all kinds of suffering befell them. Some fell down upon the rocks, but stood up immediately and went on. At the end of the road there was a magnificent garden filled with all sorts of happiness and all these souls entered there. At the very first instant they forgot all their sufferings" (Diary 153).
READ MORE
My world famous and soon to be a major motion picture talk on Purgatory compares it to physical therapy. It's true and regrettable, IMHO, that a lot of the language is either penal or monetary. But anyone who has ever dieted or exercised -- leave alone damaged a ligament -- almost naturally makes the leap from a "therapeutic" to an "accounting" metaphor. Last week's vacation must be "paid for" with this week's time on the elliptical or treadmill. This cupcake will cost me down the road.
If, because of a wound, I have wounded myself further by favoring the injured member and asking too much of others to compensate, there will be labor and pain to restore strength and freedom of motion. But the whole process is "happy" because it is "toward" strength and freedom, and THOUGH one works, one experiences the healing as grace.
It is entirely correct to say that Christ accomplished all of our salvation for us on the cross. But that does not settle the question of how this redemption is applied to us.
I wear a white scapular, not with any particular benefit in mind but because I'm a Lay Dominican and that's what we wear ... or a scapular medal ('cause a bit of cloth nestled in my breast in the summer in Virginia is ... well, no.) . I don't sit around wringing my hands because I can't wear the Carmelite scapular.
The article points out that praying for the dead seems to go way back. I generally pin my intercessory prayers on the proposition that the prayer of the righteous availeth much and that in Christ I am made righteous.
But HOW prayers assist in Purgation is beyond me. And even bulls and visionsnto the contrary notwithstanding (and visions, locutions, apparitions, and the like are NEVER de fide ,) it is not clear that Purgation is in a place or for a duration.
So it seems to me that the "bottom line" of wearing the brown scapular is that it is an appeal to Mary for the assistance of her prayers and an assertion that Mary's prayer avail much.
The author isn’t Christ or one of the writers of the (Old& New Test)Bible. If its not in the Bible its not doctrine, period. You all can make up whatever you want to and believe it, I’ll stick with the holy word. Done arguing have a good day.
In our archdiocese there is one priest and one priest only who lives off of his stipends and he was basically endowed by a rich family. He’s a wonderful man. The rest of the priests and the bishops are on salary. So the money that is paid when someone wants a Mass said for his/her loved one or when there is a wedding, baptism etc. goes into the general fund. The worker is worth his hire. The priests do not make much and they work very long hours. Of course, as Mr. Mercat says, they have a great retirement plan. We Catholics and I’m assuming Christians in other denominations are called to donate time and treasure as the Holy Spirit calls us. Where your treasure is there also is your heart. The more I give, especially of my time, the more I want to give.
On the subject of Purgatory - I recommend reading The Divine Comedy. Skip The Inferno and go directly to Purgatorio. Also consider this bible quote, “Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.” I’m willing to guess that all the people I know who have passed away were not perfect. So how does he/she meet this commandment?
It’s not in the Bible, directly, that there is NO purgation. Somebody interprets. That interpreter is not a Scriptural writer. So his interpretation is invalid, right?
Yes to the Purgatorio!
I think our brethren say that we are made perfect in an instant by grace. And since we differ from them on things like time and space, to them that means there can be nothing for which an intervalmor a place would be appropriate language.
This interests me HUGELY.
Clearly, Faith is a gift. At least in my life, it has always been there, in and around me, but not OF me or my doing.
On the other hand, if the Psalmist implores God to “remember” his acts of old, it can’t be all that off base for me to remind myself to remember those same acts and on whom my salvation rests.
Here’s a smart-alecky way to say it: The only thing I have to do is to remind myself that I don’t have to do anything. For me, I could almost summarize the entire Catholic and Dominican askesis as learning how to have the faith (and hope and charity) I already have. To pray, to study, to try to avoid killing the other members of chapter (that’s a joke, son) (at least I think it is), to proclaim, as my state of life permits, the Love ... these are about learning to hold still, to let the gift soak me.
And that’s why Ezekiel’s vision and the Vidi Aquam (below) are so important to me.
V. Confitemini Domino quoniam bonus:
R. Quoniam in saeculum misericordia eius.
V. Gloria Patri, et Filio, et Spiritui Sancto:
R. Sicut erat in principio, et nunc, et semper,
et in saecula sæculorum. Amen.
...
I saw water coming forth from the temple
on the right side, alleluia:
and all those to whom this water came
were saved, and shall say, alleluia, alleluia.
V. Give praise to the Lord, for He is good:
R. For His mercy endureth forever.
V. Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost:
R. As it was in the beginning, is now,
and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
As almost a trivial aside, since Purgation is not about forgiveness, our being already forgiven is not really relevant to the question. Nor is judgment.
It's the fault of too many highly inadequate preachers and teachers that Purgation is made into a bug-a-boo and something scary and punitive. That's one reason I push the therapeutic metaphor. Having the lovely therapist try to yank my arm out of its socket was not a "punishment" for the torn ligament. It was a cure, a mercy, a gift. And since I had used the arm poorly, to come to be able to use it as it was made to be used involved some work, some pleasant things, and some painful things. But I, and everyone with me at the therapy shoppe, was cheerful and happy. We were getting better!
On what ought we to work "under the Lord"?
I love Padre Pio who said that God is not bound by time and space and so it made perfect sense to him to pray for someone who lays dying, even if he died years ago. I pray daily for the brother of my daughter in law who died at the age of 18 in a motorcycle accident. I never knew him but by all accounts he was a wild child and I doubt whether he was in a state of grace. I will not accept that Jesus, my merciful savior, let Chris go to hell.
Seriously...a third article on this topic in the past two weeks??
Sure it is.
So its made up Cathloic BS, and not true doctrine. Feel sorry for people led astray that believe this.
Jeremiah 5:21 Hear, O foolish people, and without understanding: who have eyes, and see not: and ears, and hear not.
In the Seminary I took an elective course on the Divine Comedy. The instructor was an 80 something Catholic Priest. He was a native speaking Italian and did a great job of sight translating it from the original Florentine.
Yay, Padre Pio!
Time and space are subject to God, not He to them. So we cannot speak with certainty about before, after, then, or now when we speak about Him to whom all places are here and all times now.
As to Chris or any we love, we know that God desires all to bexsaved and that he takes no pleasure in the death of those who do not turn and live.
He knows what He’s doing.
Seriously, if it bothers you don't read them, but I believe that you (all) will learn something rather than just regurgitating the lies of someone that doesn't have a clue as to why Catholics believe what we do and why.
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