Posted on 08/17/2015 6:07:35 PM PDT by NKP_Vet
The following is also a valid syllogism, which proves that anyone who denies that Mary is the mother of God also denies that Jesus is God:
Mary is the mother of Jesus.
Mary is not the mother of God.
Therefore, Jesus is not God.
All you have proven is that you have no clue what the science of Logic is about.
“All you have proven is that you have no clue what the science of Logic is about.”
You embarrass yourself in posting that Arthur.
You are using a category mistake of logic and fail at what you are trying to condemn others for.
You assign a title to Mary that God doesn’t give, demonstrating you need more time in the wonderful Scriptures.
Nobody ever said, “Mary created God”.
That’s quite a stretch. As a matter of fact, your mother did not even create you.
Pax
“The following is also a valid syllogism, which proves that anyone who denies that Mary is the mother of God also denies that Jesus is God:
“Mary is the mother of Jesus.
Mary is not the mother of God.
Therefore, Jesus is not God.
..................................
Arthur, please don’t continue down this path. It is not a valid syllogism because it assumes a category that doesn’t not apply to Christ and then attempts to give Mary a title God never gave her.
Mary bore Jesus Christ. Bore his human nature. Bore his divine nature.
Mary didn’t conceive his divine nature. He preexisted from all eternity as God.
Mary was blessed among women. Not above women.
What God said is enough.
“Nobody ever said, “Mary created God”.”
Yes, they do. It is an attempt to make dear Mary into more than God Himself did.
Mary bore Christ. It is the truth and it is enough.
God called her blessed. It is the truth and it is enough.
You both claim to be Orthodox, but you two seem to disagree on Mary being the Mother of God.
What’s up with that?
Prove it. Where did any Catholic say Mary created God.
Mary is the mother of Jesus.
Jesus is God.
It is the truth and it is enough; but most Prots appear to reject those truths.
Sigh, generally these discussions seem to break down along a few miscommunications, overreactions, and sometimes an actual theological disagreement.
Protestants tend to be uncomfortable calling Mary the mother of God believing this denigrates the honor due to God alone or places Mary in a position greater than God. Catholics see this as an overreaction- a mother gives birth to a person, not a nature.
Some protestants seem to go further, seeming to believe that Jesus is two persons with two natures and that Mary is only the mother of the human person. Catholics recognize this as Nestorianism which was condemned in the 400’s if memory serves.
Using the term Godbearer is a nice phrase- I doubt many Protestants would have a problem with that. If one does disagree with the phrase Godbrare, then they probably really are Nestorians. Makes for a nice theological test I suppose.
One point that Catholics often fail to make is that Catholics believe that Jesus existed as the Son of God before he was concieved, from all eternity in fact. If they don’t understand that, then chalk it up to crappy catechesis inthe 60s to present day.
Finally, Catholics tend to not make the point that we believe mothers (and fathers generally, but not in this case) assist God in the creation of a new body with which God joins a soul. A Catholic would say that protestants elevate the word mother too much (well maybe some Italian Catholics and Jews do too ;).
Sometimes I get the feeling that some people believe Jesus has to have an entirely separate set of DNA from Mary in order to be God. An honest Catholic would say thats possible but we don’t know and the Church doesn’t have a stated position. One problem with that line of thinking (unintended pun) is that Jesus is to be in the line of David. Legally he is through Joseph and Mary, but biologically he could only be through Mary. Interestingly to me, and unknown until the last century, all of the DNA needed to create a human male (biologically) can be found in a human female (just have to snip off and rearrange one of the X chromosomes). A miracle to be sure, but short work for God. Interesting to ponder on.
If you think that’s something, just wait until they have enough support for the fifth marion dogma. It’s just a matter of time though before another false teaching becomes roman catholic dogma.
Jesus IS God. You cannot separate the two. It is a basic tenet of Christianity. Therefore, to say, "neither God nor Jesus ARE" is illogical.
Perhaps you meant "Neither God the Father nor Jesus are simple".
Mary is the mother of a person, Jesus, who is God and man. He was also 5’10” and 180 lbs.
That person is ONE person, not two, or three, or four.
Therefore, by being the mother of Jesus, Mary is simultaneously the mother of a person who is 5’10”, and the mother of a person who is 180 lbs, and the mother of a person who is a man, and the mother of a person who is God.
The title “Mother of God” NEVER meant that Mary pre-existed, conceived, or caused the existence of, the eternal, Triune God. The reason the title NEVER meant that was that the Christians who call Mary by that title are not idiots.
The ONLY way Mary is NOT the mother of God is if the person Jesus who is man is NOT the same person Jesus who is God.
“Prove it. Where did any Catholic say Mary created God.”
Really? how about we just get to the point...
Why don’t you come out and admit that God Himself never Gave Mary that title, but it is a human addition to Scripture.
“Mary is the mother of Jesus.
Protestants agree.
“Jesus is God.
Protestants agree.
“It is the truth and it is enough; but most Prots appear to reject those truths.”
Hundreds of millions of Christians also understand that God never called Mary the “mother of God.” We believe everything God said about Mary and nothing man-made.
So I’m just asking where the title Mother of G-d came from and what does it mean. To me it appears that Mary is the mother of G-d which elevates her higher and is worshiped as such.
Arthur,
“He was also 5’10” and 180 lbs.”
You’re into the Sacramental wine again!
“The ONLY way Mary is NOT the mother of God is if the person Jesus who is man is NOT the same person Jesus who is God.”
We will continue to disagree. I won’t give Mary a title God Himself never does.
Why do you suppose God left out that title Arthur?
Why do you suppose some people are so eager to give her the title God never did?
Do you believe Mary to be the Queen of Heaven? A yes or no answer will suffice.
Of course I do not know Jesus exact height and weight. My point is that he is SOME height and SOME weight.
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