Posted on 12/14/2015 7:44:24 AM PST by SeekAndFind
A leading Jewish Messianic group in America has responded to the Vatican's recent claim that Jews do not need to be believers in Jesus Christ to be saved, by saying that the Apostle Paul would have been "horrified" at the suggestion.
David Brickner, executive director of Jews for Jesus, said in a statement late last week that the suggestions of the Vatican's Commission for Religious Relations with Jews are : ... egregious, especially coming from an institution which seeks to represent a significant number of Christians in the world."
He further pointed out that the document's title, "The Gifts and Calling of God are irrevocable," is taken from Paul's words in Romans 11:29, but said that the New Testament figure would greatly disagree with how they have been applied here.
Brickner said:
"We believe that the Apostle Paul, whose name is invoked frequently in the Vatican document, would be horrified at this repudiation of the words with which he started his letter in Romans: 'For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.'"
The Commission released its document last Thursday, which stated that although all people need Christ to be saved, there is a "divine mystery" surrounding how Jewish believers fit in the plan.
"That the Jews are participants in God's salvation is theologically unquestionable, but how that can be possible without confessing Christ explicitly, is and remains an unfathomable divine mystery," the document argues.
"Since God has never revoked his covenant with his people Israel, there cannot be different paths or approaches to God's salvation," it added, however.
"The theory that there may be two different paths to salvation, the Jewish path without Christ and the path with the Christ, whom Christians believe is Jesus of Nazareth, would in fact endanger the foundations of Christian faith."
The theologians behind the document, including Cardinal Kurt Koch and Fr. Norbert Hofmann of the Vatican Commission, also spoke out against Christian missionary efforts to convert Jews, but at the same time said that Christians are called to share their faith with others.
In his response, Brickner suggested that the document is an attempt to "pander" to Jewish community leaders.
"How can the Vatican ignore the fact that the Great Commission of Jesus Christ mandates that his followers are to bring the gospel to all people? Are they merely pandering to some leaders in the Jewish community who applaud being off the radar for evangelization by Catholics?" he asked.
"If so, they need to be reminded that they first received that gospel message from the lips of Jews who were for Jesus."
Jews for Jesus, which has branches in 13 countries and 25 cities, describes itself on its website as "the largest Jewish mission agency in the world and has, at its core, the goal of proclaiming the message that Jesus is the Jewish Messiah and Savior of the world."
The National Catholic Register clarified in an article that the Committee's document does not carry magisterial authority, but offers an insight into the Roman Catholic Church's current thinking.
The document was released as part of commemorations for the fiftieth anniversary of Vatican II's decree Nostra Aetate, which dealt with Catholicism's relation with Judaism and other religions.
I protested, saying that's ridiculous and what did I get?? Two weeks of detention.
Is the Pope Catholic? No.
I think it’s clear from Paul that Jews who do not believe in Christ are lost. They are not “true Israel”, through unbelief their circumcision has become uncircumcision, a man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, etc. Yet they are advantaged and beloved “on account of the patriarchs”. They have been groomed to accept Christ, though stumbling over him as a stumbling stone and being (partially) hardened.
Lots of fascinating paradoxes in Scripture, that’s for sure!
We know that Jews are the chosen people, but aside from that it`s above my pay grade.
If they get a total pass, this is indeed good news for the Hollywood Jews.
Vatican is wrong?
Huh.
Well, if Jews are unbelievers, then they can't get to heaven, just like Arabs, Mongolians, Latinos, whatever.
The chaff is fairly jumping off the wheat.
RE: I think it’s clear from Paul that Jews who do not believe in Christ are lost.
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Paul was merely echoing what Jesus Himself said... to JEWS.
23 But he continued, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am He, you will indeed die in your sins.”
25 “Who are you?” they asked.
“Just what I have been telling you from the beginning,” Jesus replied.
26 “I have much to say in judgment of you. But he who sent me is trustworthy, and what I have heard from him I tell the world.”
27 They did not understand that he was telling them about his Father. 28 So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up[a] the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me. 29 The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him.” 30 Even as he spoke, many believed in him.
( John 8:23-30)
RE: Vatican is wrong?
Huh.
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You mean they are NEVER wrong? What rule in the universe tells is that?
Jesus said to the Jews:
“Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.â€
However, let me bring in another wrinkle- it is not only that Jews reject Jesus, but they clearly reject the resurrection of the body. Heaven is not a place we go to, it is a place to come with a new Heaven and a new Earth with our resurrected body.
I’m not real informed about religion. I never “got it” why Jews don’t accept Christ as Savior. I’ve always wondered if it’s more involved in preserving Jewish culture than in any religious analysis.
RE: I think it’s clear from Paul that Jews who do not believe in Christ are lost.
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My personal opinion, and it is simply an opinion, I think the question is a little complicated.
The Jews as all Israel have always believed in “The Messiah”, but they believe he has yet to come, in other words they simply don’t believe that Jesus was the Messiah.
The Jews in leadership positions in the day of Jesus’s mortality are surely responsible for this un-belief. I think many of them knew or at least suspected He may have been the promised Messiah. They however were in fear of losing their leadership positions. I would think that their logic would have been something on the order of, “well if He is the Messiah then let Him stop us”. Jesus didn’t stop them however because He had to be the sacrifice for the guilt of the whole world.
This puts the followers of the Jewish leadership in an awkward position, namely: do they follow the meek Jesus Christ or the great and powerful Jewish leadership whom they believed received the priesthood of Arron in the tribe of Levi and the High priesthood from the descendants of Aaron.
I can’t believe that the same Jesus that loved Israel and Who gave the promises and blessings of Abraham to those descendants will condemn them for doing what they truly thought was what He wanted them to do. I don’t know how it will be accomplished but I do believe that those who after seeing who Jesus really is will repent of their denial and will then serve Him. I have to believe that the reason Jesus went to visit the spirits of those in “prison” was so that He could show them who He was so that they could then accept Him. I sure hope so anyway. If I am wrong then judgement day will be very sad indeed for those who thought they were doing what they were supposed to be doing.
It doesn't get more plain that this. Theologians like the Pope, get so entrenched in doctrinal studies they forget what the scriptures actually say. Sad.
Lots of paradoxes in Man, not God or Scripture
See post 9
We Christian gentiles have been grafted into Israel and the unbelieving Jews have been broken off from the root. Their only way back is through belief in Jesus. (see Romans 11)
The idea that Jews have a separate deal with God is wrong. Believe in Jesus.
The idea that Israel will have an earthly kingdom is wrong. The hope of Israel is and has always been Jesus. The Kingdom of God is not of this world. Looking for a future earthly kingdom for Israel is making the same mistake as the Jews of Jesus' time.
First the earthly, then the spiritual.
The Jews were promised an earthly kingdom and the church a spiritual kingdom.
“I am not real informed about religion. I never “got it†why Jews do not accept Christ as Savior. I have always wondered if it is more involved in preserving Jewish culture than in any religious analysis.” [modified by Ancesthnr to eliminate contractions, so as to make it more readable without all of the garbage symbols that have appeared on FR lately].
a) Jews don’t pray to or worship human beings, they only worship the one true G-d (known to Christians as “the Father”).
b) Jesus didn’t meet the genealogical requirements (i.e. he had to be descended from Solomon on his father’s side, and the Christian bible emphasizes that Joseph was NOT his father (and, in any case, Joseph himself wasn’t descended from Solomon on his father’s side). Further, and more telling, because Joseph descended from Jeconiah (Mat. 1:11) he fell under the curse of that king that none of his descendants could ever sit as king upon the throne of David. (Jeremiah 22:30; 36:30). Mary’s genealogy cannot be used, because Jewish tribal identity passes through the father; however, even IF it could be done, Mary descends from David’s son Nathan (Luke 3:31), not David’s son Solomon. Alternatively, Mary is descended from Shealtiel and Zerubbabel (Luke 3:27), who are themselves descended from the cursed King Jeconiah (also known as Eliakim).
3) Jesus didn’t meet the “job requirements” of being the promised Messiah on many different levels. He didn’t rebuild the Temple (it already stood when he was alive), bring the exile of the Jews to an end, bring universal peace, restore Jewish law and a host of other things. In fact, shortly after his death (in historical terms), the Temple was destroyed, the Jews were dispersed by the Romans, peace didn’t reign (when has it, ever?) and Jewish law COULD NOT be observed (not in full without the Temple). Above all, the Messiah doesn’t get killed because he has the ultimate in protection. Jesus didn’t meet those requirements, and THAT is why the Jews rejected and continue to reject him.
I, too, am no scholar in these matters. More detail is here:
and here:
and here:
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