Why Does Jesus Call the Father Greater If We Teach That the Members of the Trinity Are Equal?

Archdiocese of Washington ^ | 05-23-16 | Msgr. Charles Pope

[Salvation]

Why Does Jesus Call the Father Greater If We Teach That the Members of the Trinity Are Equal?

Msgr. Charles Pope • May 23, 2016 •

Many of you know that I write the Question and Answer column for Our Sunday Visitor. Given the celebration of Trinity Sunday this past Sunday, I thought I might reproduce here on the blog a question/answer regarding the Trinity. It is a fairly common question; perhaps you have it, too. Remember that my answers in the column are required to be brief.

We read in a recent Sunday Gospel (May 1, 2016) that Jesus says that the Father is greater than He (Jn 14:28). Since we are all taught that each Divine Person of the Blessed Trinity fully possesses the nature of God, equally to be adored and glorified, what did Jesus mean by such a statement?” – Dick Smith, Carrolton, TX.

Theologically, Jesus means that the Father is the eternal source in the Trinity. All three persons of the Trinity are co-eternal, co-equal, and equally divine. But the Father is the Principium Deitatis (the Source in the Deity).

Hence, Jesus proceeds from the Father from all eternity. He is eternally begotten of the Father. In effect, Jesus is saying, “I delight that the Father is the eternal principle or source of my being, even though I have no origin in time.”

Devotionally, Jesus is saying that He always does what pleases His Father. Jesus loves His Father; He’s crazy about Him. He is always talking about Him and pointing to Him. By calling the Father greater, He says (in effect), “I look to my Father for everything. I do what I see Him doing (Jn 5:19) and what I know pleases Him (Jn 5:30). His will and mine are one. What I will to do proceeds from Him. I do what I know accords with His will.”

So although the members of the Trinity are all equal in dignity, there are processions in the Trinity, such that the Father is the source, the Son eternally proceeds from Him (Jn 8:42), and the Holy Spirit eternally proceeds from the Father and the Son as from one principal (Jn 15:26).

St Thomas speaks poetically of the Trinity as follows:

Genitori, Genitoque … Procedenti ab utroque … compar sit laudautio

(To the One Who Begets, and to the Begotton One, and to the One who proceeds from them both, be equal praise.)

The Athanasian Creed says the following regarding these processions:

The Father is made by none, neither created nor begotten.

The Son is of the Father alone, neither made nor created, but begotten.

The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son, not made, nor created, nor begotten, but he proceeds from them.

So although equal, processions do have an order. The Father is “greater” (as source), but is equal in dignity to Son and Holy Spirit.

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[verga]

It is the key to not only explaining the Trinitarian concept of God but also the way to comprehend how God can be a man and still be God, and simultaneously be The Holy Spirit and still be God. ‘Hear oh Israel, our God is One.’.

They don't understand the idea of "procession", there is no way I was going to throw in the dual nature of Hypostasis.

[Elsie]

In the first sentence above you suggest God's thought was so powerful and perfect it resulted in the Son.

Not even close!

The absolute ARROGANCE if even SUGGESTING what "God's first thought" was is enough for me!

Gods first thought was of Himself and that thought was so powerful and perfect that it resulted in the Son.

[ealgeone]

Please be sure you credit that post to verga and not me.

I have no idea where he came up with that nonsense.

[Elsie]

Well, not 100% in agreement, the entire reason for the Creeds was because there were divergent interpretations about Scripture.

And there still IS!

I'd always heard that the 'creeds' distill the Scriptures down into the ESSENTIALness of Christianity.

IE this is the important stuff.
The rest can be taken or left.

[Elsie]

You’ve been known to communicate with Clucks!

[ealgeone]

Now please give your explanation of the origin of the Trinity, I would love to see it.

Already have. See the posts with the verses. But I see you're having a hard time understanding He has always existed.

[Elsie]

Your unwillingness or inability to explain the origin of the Trinity is noted.

[Elsie]

This is an out right lie. see post 243 line #5.

1. Pay very close attention here. I specifically said that Jesus was NOT a created being. Nothing in my post implied otherwise.
2. Now John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
3. This says that Jesus was from the beginning of time, that He was with God and that He was God. It says nothing about the Holy Spirit.
4. The Father, Son and Holy Ghost have always existed
5. And I never said anything different than that.

[MHGinTN]

\/

[Elsie]

Now please give your explanation of the origin of the Trinity, I would love to see it.

We Catholics do NOT harass people; but that danged Elsie sure does!

Catholic_Wannabe_Dude(Hail Mary!)

[verga]

Dude...you're all over the map on this. In one post you say God comes into existence....in another post you say He's always existed. Which is it?

Actually it was in the exact same post. But thank you for finally admitting that I said that God always existed.

Now you need to understand that God exists outside of time and space. This is indicated by the adjectives infinite and eternal. He has no limits on him in regards to either size or duration. Before I possibly waste anymore time or breath do you understand this concept. I am not speaking about the time that Jesus spent on Earth.

[Elsie]

It is obvious you have little or no understanding of even the most basic concepts of theology.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/hand-waving

[verga]

Yes thank you for documenting that I was 100% accurate. It is not my fault so many of you have such limited understanding.

[ealgeone]

Your post from 160....When God came into existence....

I've admitted only that you are all over the map on this.

I am not speaking about the time that Jesus spent on Earth.

I'm not either. Either the Son has always existed or He hasn't.

What say you? Has the Son always existed?

[MHGinTN]

Do you believe that GOD came into being before The Word or The Holy Spirit. Heck, do you believe GOD came into being?

[af_vet_1981]

I've admitted only that you are all over the map on this.

This is the map.

The Nicene Creed

I believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.

I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
he suffered death and was buried,
and rose again on the third day
in accordance with the Scriptures.
He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead
and his kingdom will have no end.

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son,
who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.

I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.
I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins
and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead
and the life of the world to come. Amen.

[ealgeone]

Good thing you showed up to help verga. He's posted some crazy stuff tonight. Suggest you read his post #160. Here's an excerpt. Bold emphasis mine.

When God came into existence there was nothing else all was void. His first thought must have been self awareness. The only possible outcome of an omnipotent being becoming self aware would be for that awareness to be a mirrored reflection or that omnipotent perfection.

[Syncro]

Your unwillingness or inability to explain the origin of the Trinity is noted.

I've never been asked. Let that be noted.

How can one explain something that never happened?

How is something "originated" that always has been?

I believe you will find the first mention of the Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit in Genesis 1:26.

Nowhere in God's Holy Word is there any indication that God (all three parts) ever had a beginning.

God makes it clear that He has always existed.

So your statement quoted up above could be described as a straw man question, if it was phrased like that.

If you really have to have a beginning, check out Revelation 22:13

[boatbums]

Then please feel free to give your explanation of the origin of the Trinity, I would love to see it.

How about you explain your contradiction first?

[boatbums]

It is obvious you have little or no understanding of even the most basic concepts of theology.

What is obvious is you sorely lack either the understanding or the correct terminology to explain THE most basic concept of theology - GOD. Ealgeone has run circles around you and you are either too proud to admit your error or you really don't get it. Which one is it?