Posted on 08/30/2016 8:04:03 AM PDT by Salvation
Its an interesting discussion and we all think about it from time to time.
Still, hell or extinction or eternal separation, however you envision it, its not a very happy outcome. It is the end of a life that has missed the point and missed the boat.
Love God. As you come to know him you can’t help but love him. Pursue him. Walk with him. Now, not later, eternity starts now.
If we get so far as to need to worry if the lake of fire is eternal or finite or literal or symbolic we’ve already missed it. :)
So Jesus made up the torment part?
“This ‘improved’ understanding is the work of Satan.”
That is a strong claim. Do you think the “improved” understanding of Luther is the work of Satan?
Hell is Law, not Gospel.
Fear God? Prov 9:10.
And we are to fear Him that can kill both body and soul in Gehenna.
So when God had the scriptures written, He was too stupid to account for sense at a human level. Couldn’t just be saying what happens? You have to bend the Words of God to your understanding instead of your understanding to the Word of God.
EVERLASTING must mean SOMETHING.
Thing is, there are many places in the bible where it is translated to English phrases such as “everlasting” eternal, forever and ever, and such, when the event was only for a predefined time, and then often a very short time.
Go here:http://rethinkinghell.com/explore/
click on the “scriptures” tab. You can then click on the Traditionalism, Conditionalism and Universalism tabs to see a list of “proof texts” for each one. You can then click on each proof text for the text, an explanation and sometimes a refutation.
This is not like the “pre- vs post-trib” type arguments. This stuff is pretty well discussed in the bible.
The core problem is what the ECT message does to God’s message. As one person used as an analogy:
Imagine you leave your kids with a babysitter and when you come home you find them put to bed, and the next morning you find that the babysitter, to get them to go to bed, told them that if they were not in bed by the time you got home, that you were going to torture them in the basement for a week.
Would that be a good thing? How would you feel about that babysitter?
Bookmark!
I am not surprised. For one who minimizes the consequence and price for sin what else could be expected?
Have you any proof of that understanding to be unbiblical? Catholics may, but I don't.
So Jesus made up the torment part? What part is that?
Rich man's torment in the parable. Not surprising you missed it, doesn't fit the narrative you are pushing.
The word behind destroy (appolumi) does not convey the notion of extinction but of great loss or ruin. Paul uses the same term in 2 Thessalonians 1:9, where he speaks of “eternal destruction”-a phrase that would not make sense if “destruction” meant annihilation, which by definition cannot be eternal. That which is annihilated ceases to exist.
https://www.gty.org/resources/print/bible-qna/BQ050212
What the Bible says about Hell
Whole counsel of God, try it. Better outcomes, biblical outcomes, not some new age feel good 'nicer' version. Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Sins wage is always paid, and always merited, eternal life is always a gift.
I am not surprised. For one who minimizes the consequence and price for sin what else could be expected?
Rich man’s torment in the parable. Not surprising you missed it, doesn’t fit the narrative you are pushing.
I was hoping to have a two sided discussion about this.
I remember when I tried to bring this up at my Baptist church here. One of the elders tried to argue with me, and when I answered his one or two arguments, his face got beet red and he held up his KJV and shook it and said, “I BELIEVE THE WORD OF GOD!”, to which I said, “So do I. Where we differ is our interpretation.” He looked like he was going to physically explode.
It was sad. I was just trying to have an adult conversation and he could not leave his dogma. The dogmatic ignorance was simply shocking to me at the time. It was like arguing the past of hillary with an ardent Hillary supporter. There was no reason there. Just blind belief. It was what he was taught since sunday school and he REFUSED to even listen to something - even when the bible was used to support it - if it disagreed with what he had been taught as a child and never studied with an adult mind.
There is a lot of that here in the bible belt. There are people that have been going to church for 70-80 years “religiously” that can’t tell you the difference between the OT and NT. They believe what they were taught as children by equally ignorant pastors, and that’s that.
The bible is an exciting book with great knowledge and history. The more I’m exposed to it, the more exciting its message. And the greater my understanding of its nuances. Little things like “weeping and gnashing of teeth” means great sorrow and great anger.
I wish you good fortune in your journey go ever growing biblical wisdom. Seriously.
https://bible.org/article/what-bible-says-about-hell
Have you read this:
http://rethinkinghell.com/explore/
Go to the scriptures tab and select each of the tabs below it - one each for Traditionalism, Conditionalism, and Universalism.
Then click on each scripture notation to get the scripture and a commentary. Note that some do not yet have a commentary (it is a work in progress).
I understand your point. I hope you understand mine.
NIV 2 Corinthians 1:13-14
13. For we do not write you anything you cannot read or understand. And I hope that,
14. as you have understood us in part, you will come to understand fully that you can boast of us just as we will boast of you in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Yes. And I sincerely appreciate your methodology here. I believe you and I could have a fruitful discussion on bible topics on which we may disagree.
It’s interesting. People say minds are no5 changed, yet mine is often, once new and compelling information presents itself. Heck, that is what caused me to switch from ECT to CI in the first place.
Exactly!
Law and Gospel, rightly dividing the Word of God.
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