Andy Stanley Defends Teaching Methods Against Charges His Approach Undermines Scripture

Christian Post ^ | 10/5/2016 | BRANDON SHOWALTER

[editor-surveyor]

.
I agree conditionally with your response to Agamemnon.

We are responsible for what we believe.

But I also believe, based on your posts, that you will stand at the Great White Throne.

The Bride of Yeshua will not!

The bride will be gathered at the day of Trumpets, 1000 years earlier, and is not subject to the judgement unto death.
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[avenir]

“...the guy, red faced, lifted his big KJV above his head...”

Lol. I bought a Family Bible in KJV from Half-Price Books a few years ago that could deep-six someone if you clocked them with it! It’s huuuuuge.

[editor-surveyor]

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>> “Whose interpretation do you use?” <<

Believers do not interpret, they read what is written there and believe it without parsing it.
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[delchiante]

quote-The important question is how we got into this situation, and the answer is that Christian parents and the church have been all too willing to hand children over to a government school system that aggressively disciples them in paganism.

I live in a disctrict that the children who went to the suburban public school in the district had ‘Monday’ off this week.
It was Rosh Hashanah. They will also get next ‘Wednesday’ off for Yom Kippur..(And Columbus day, but if they understood the bible, they wouldn’t see that as coincidental-but a blessing by Him)

The city schools did not have that day off- and I don’t know how many school districts did in the area.

I doubt the parochial/religious Christian schools had that day off, but if they did, I would be surprised..

My point- In the Scriptures, that day every month was a ‘holy day’.
It is called the ‘1st day of the month’ or the ‘Day of the New Moon’

It was a day the markets were closed and no one was to do work. feasts and banquets were held, according to the Scriptures.

This one last ‘Monday’ happened to be in the 7th on the Father and Son’s calendar, and is a special Sabbath, again according to scripture.
But each of the Father’s months begin with a holy appointment ‘moed’.(moed strongs 4150- same word used in Genesis 1:14 for ‘seasons’- that moed doesn’t mean winter, spring, summer, fall, it means His Feasts, set appointments..

So, a public school took that day off. Why? Because they have a large Jewish population.

But the problem is, Judaism nor Christianity understand what that ‘day’, the 1st day of the month, means to the Father or the Son.

Would Christianity be shocked that the woman was clothed with the sun and the moon was under her feet (a small reference in Revelation 12:1) on that day?
Judaism has no need to understand that but Christianity has no excuse..
They have the fullness of Truth in their hands..

And yet, a secular public school in a suburb had that day off.
not really understanding how it pertains to the Father or the Son.
Just something Judaism keeps holy because Scriptures say it’s holy.
They too have been blinded.

Imagine the world understanding what the ‘Day of the new Moon’(1st Day of the month) meant to the Father and the Son?

I suspect they too would seek to take the day off and have their appointment with their Creator and Redeemer.
They may start to understand that what is wrong in this world may be the blindness of those who say, I see..

Amazingly, He showed me how a small suburban school with a rather large Jewish population took a day off that means something to the Father and the Son.
And Christians probably had no clue.. They just figured it was a day off.
what that day represents, from the first Words of Genesis, to the last words of Revelation, are why this nation and the world seems so out of control and slipping from its bearings.

The govt school system probably upset some christian families who needed to find a babysitter for that day while they worked.. they have decided the world is a better system than the one He gives.

Conformity to a world that has hidden that kind of Truth of the Father and the Son.

Prophetic!

[Mr. Douglas]

Yeah. That stuff gets pretty complicated, don’t it? :-)

Fortunately, Jesus made it pretty darned simple - for the rest of us. :-)

[editor-surveyor]

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Simple it is: Torah.

But so many follow churchianity instead, thinking “Jesus” would be pleased.

Unfortunately, Yeshua and his Daddy are not. :o)
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[Mr. Douglas]

Yes. There are a couple of things we differ on... ;-)

[Agamemnon]

Whose interpretation do you use?

2 Timothy 3:16-17

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

"That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works."

Since as it is described here that ALL Scripture is God inspired it is also internally consistent. Scripture therefore, interprets Scripture.

2 Peter 1:20 minces no words when it says "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation."

My question was crafted succinctly and deliberately: when I asked Mr. Douglas, "Is it your position that everything in the Bible is up for debate and is subject to your own private interpretation?"

... and he replied, "At the end of the day, yes,..." Mr. Douglas is not correct, Scripturally.

Editor-surveyor is correct to say," Believers do not interpret, they read what is written there and believe it without parsing it," but I'll go a step further to say not only "believe it without parsing" the Scripture, but also without manipulating the Scripture to suit man's purposes - whether it be "at the end of the day," or at any other time.

FReegards!

[aimhigh]

"So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; it shall not return to Me void, but it shall accomplish what I please, and it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it." Isaiah 55:11

God's word has a guarantee of results. If this pastor thinks his words are more effective, then he is deceived.

[editor-surveyor]

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Observing the new moon is the essence of following the biblical calendar.

Without that, how would we know when to “Watch?”

But the funny thing was that until just two years ago, modern Judaism had been following the Sanhedrin’s Babylonian calculations prepared over a millennium ago, and ignoring the moon!

Then they discovered Rood and Gordon’s watching for the Aviv to determine the year, and now they are finally back on the Biblical calendar, and Babylon is back in the closet.
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[.45 Long Colt]

“God has always, and will continue to, watch over His own.”

Indeed! Christ Himself said, It is written in the Prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me- - John 6:45.

When God intends to save a soul, that soul will be saved. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified. - Romans 8:30

Stanley’s problem is he’s designed his whole ministry on the basis of his faulty synergistic theology. However, he’s hardly unique in that. Most evangelical synergistic don’t believe they can throw out or discount the Bible. He’s so arrogant he believes he has discovered some new truth when in reality he’s simply repackaged the same old liberal lies regarding the Scriptures. I’ve known many just like him who claim to know Christ while denying half the Old Testament is true. Stanley believes he can smooth over the rough edges in the Bible and win souls. He doesn’t understand that God, and God alone, saves souls. And when He regenerates a man that man will have no trouble believing the hard parts of the Bible.

Stay away from Stanley!

[Mr. Douglas]

... and he replied, “At the end of the day, yes,...” Mr. Douglas is not correct, Scripturally.

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Opinions vary. I, too, was very careful how I worded my response. :-)

[Mr. Douglas]

You also ignored the clarification of what I said in that single sentence: “Each individual is personally responsible for his or her relationship with the Lord. This includes how they choose to interpret the content of His word.”

Oddly, I also completely agree with this statement you made below. Maybe that is because it feeds into what I was saying in the first place:

“...but I’ll go a step further to say not only “believe it without parsing” the Scripture, but also without manipulating the Scripture to suit man’s purposes - whether it be “at the end of the day,” or at any other time.”

[achilles2000]

“Schooling” is what people are actually taught, which is what all polling data shows. Only about 3-4% of students are not in institutional schools. It is delusional to think that an hour of Sunday school and a parental nod toward Christianity overcomes 13 years of pagan indoctrination in government schools. That is what the data show. “A student is not above his teacher, but when he is fully trained he will be like his teacher.” If a Christian school teaches paganism, this will be true, too. Nevertheless, by law the government schools are pagan...and the majority of pastors are too cowardly to confront the sin of government schooling by the congregants who love their favorite middle-class welfare entitlement.

[SecAmndmt]

“Some of the worst education I have seen has come out of so called Christian schools.”

The “so called Christian schools” as you refer to them, are for the most part 100% privately funded. IOW they are private schools. in many cases, they have limited resources and lower teacher pay. Nevertheless, private Christian schools don’t have a track record of converting Christians to secular humanism. Government schools do.

As I said before about Christians who send their children to government schools despite knowing the track record:

“The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that listens to counsel is wise.”
Proverbs 12:15

[Agamemnon]

Opinions vary.

So since it is your position that everything in the Bible is up for debate that by definition includes whether all Scripture in fact is given by inspiration of God, and whether Jesus Christ is who he says He is, as revealed in Scripture.

While opinions may vary; however, perhaps we can agree that not all opinions have merit.

Perhaps we can also agree that the merit of Scripture is not subordinate to man's opinions about Scripture.

As you correctly noted we will all stand before God's Great White Throne Judgment. None of man's opinions will matter in that forum on that Day.

That said, if one desires to have their opinion survive, one might do well to elevate God's opinion above their own and choose to conform their will to God's at some time before that Day comes.

FReegards!

[Sterlis]

1 Corinthians 1:23 - But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

Whether we like it or not we are living in a “Greek” gentile world where the bible is of no authority and is considered irrelevant by so many. Our model needs to always be Jesus who so clearly walked out the truth in love. People need to meet Jesus then the scripture will quickly become important precisely because that is where God speaks directly.

[Chaguito]

“In Acts 17, for instance, the Apostle Paul addresses the Athenians, and urges them to repent from their idolatry. Yet although he refers to Him, Paul doesn’t mention Jesus by name. To some that might seem like an egregious omission, like Paul was leaving out an essential element of the Gospel, when really he knew his audience’s frame of reference.”

And one could easily argue from Paul’s own words that he repented of his Athenian approach. After his eloquent argument on Mars Hill, he attempted to interject the first historical element (and the gospel is historical, not philosophical), namely the resurrection. For the most part, this ended any interest among the erudite in his message.

His next stop was Corinth (Acts 18). One can almost feel the frustration and fatigue that he carried to Corinth from Athens. After that unpleasant reception, the Jews of Corinth immediately gave him even more grief.

He later wrote to the Corinthians about his arrival in Corinth, “Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God...When I came to you, I did not come with eloquence or human wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God. For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. I came to you in weakness with great fear and trembling. My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, so that your faith might not rest on human wisdom, but on God’s power.”

Andy is walking on thin ice, in my opinion. It is not intellectual prowess that argues people into the kingdom of God. Of course, it is not a big show of signs and wonders, either.

[Mr. Douglas]

So since it is your position that everything in the Bible is up for debate.

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This demonstrates why these conversations get so long. I didn’t say that.

It is “Up for debated” in the same way the argument over what country attacked Pear Harbor is “up for debate”.

I said that every person is responsible for their own interpretation of scripture, in the same way I might say that every potential history professor is responsible for his interpretation of what happened at Pearl Harbor. And if one says that Germany attacked Pearl Harbor, it simply means he is wrong and will not get the job because of his faulty reasoning.

Same with scripture. It says what it says. That is not debatable. What IS debatable, is what it means.

Want proof? People debate it all the time. Therefore, by definition, it is “debatable”. And the most fun part to “debate” is any visions.

The phrase “the bible interprets itself” is a fancy way of saying that you have to know and understand every single word in the bible to understand any other word in the bible. Nobody has done that yet. So, we debate meanings. :-)

It’s also a fancy way of saying, “my interpretation is correct and yours is wrong”, I’ve discovered.

[Mr. Douglas]

That said, if one desires to have their opinion survive, one might do well to elevate God’s opinion above their own and choose to conform their will to God’s at some time before that Day comes.

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Yep.