How the Mormons plan a city for 500,000 in Florida

theguardian ^ | Monday 30 January 2017 02.59 EST | Claire Provost

[Elsie]

From book to boom: how the Mormons plan a city for 500,000 in Florida

The Mormon church owns vast tracts of US land, and now envisages a huge new city on its Deseret Ranch – but at what cost?

[marshmallow]

From the article:

Now there are ambitious, far-reaching plans to transform much of this land into an entirely new “city”, home to as many as 500,000 people by 2080. Deseret has said that while nothing will be built here for decades....

OK....good luck with that. 2080 is 63 years away. Before we have the luxury of fretting about what the Mormons are doing in Florida, we have far, far more serious problems to overcome. If we fail, America, on its current trajectory, will no longer exist......

[Colofornian]

From an earlier FR entry: The Rest of the Story About the Word 'Exterminate' in 1835 usage & what prompted Gov. Boggs' order

What most people miss is the correct definition of "extermination" in the 1835 time period. Webster's Dictionary of 1828 under "exterminate" has: "Literally, to drive from within the limits or borders. Hence, 1. To destroy utterly; to drive away...." Source: MORMONS - PERSECUTED, PERSECUTOR OR BOTH?

A Mormon author, George W. Givens, likewise pointed this out in his book 500 Little-Known Facts in Mormon History:

Per Givens, "Latter-day Saints have universally condemned the notorious Haun's Mill Massacre by a mom-militia shortly after Missouri Governor Boggs issued the infamous extermination order...a second look at the definition of the word 'exterminate' as it was used in 1838, however, might cause us to take a second look at Governor Boggs as well. An American Dictionary of English Language, published in 1828, defines 'exterminate' as 'literally, to drive from within the limits or borders.'" (p. 26) Bonneville Books, 2004

Q What implications does this have?

A Simply put, beware of Mormon Victimology Mythology!

Mormon Victimology Mythology: Or How Mormon Historical Revisitionists often need a Paul Harvey type 'rest of the story' to hold them accountable for their strange gaps in their history!

Early Summer, 1838 -- July 4, in fact: (c) Joseph Smith's "partner in cult 'crime'" is Sidney Rigdon's.

Rigdon chose this date to give an "inflammatory" sermon re: independence of the church from mobocracy. Rigdon "warned of a war of EXTERMINATION between Mormons and their enemies if they were further threatened or harassed." (Leland H. Gentry, Church History, p. 343). Lds writer Max Parkin conceded that Rigdon's June 19 and July 4 messages "further incensed the public against expanding LDS influences." (Church History, p. 348).

If...Mormons were given history questions on understanding the word "extermination" in 1830s America, they would flunk outright! Certainly, what we almost NEVER hear from contemporary Mormon posters is that apparently the first group to threaten the other with "extermination" in Missouri wasn't Gov. Boggs. 'Twas Lds leader Sidney Rigdon four months prior to that!

To add even more to the complexity of why people acted as they did in those Missouri 1830s, the Lds Church History; Selections from the Encyclopedia of Mormonism adds other reasons:
(a) Sidney Rigdon's June 19, 1838 "Salt Sermon" reinforced local Mormon opposition;
(b) Lds militia officer Sampson Avard initiated a vigilante group known as the Danites
(c) Gamecock posted an article...years back with a few interesting excerpts:

Late October, 1838:

[Author had just cited Lds apostle Bruce McConkie]: McConkie's dramatic rhetoric fails to take into account the fact that the Haun's Mill massacre took place just one week after the battle of Crooked River. [Former BYU History professor] Quinn writes: "A generally unacknowledged dimension of both the EXTERMINATION ORDER and the Haun's Mill massacre, however, is that they resulted from Mormon actions in the Battle of Crooked River. Knowingly or not, MORMONS HAD ATTACKED STATE TROOPS, and this had a cascade effect… upon receiving news of the injuries and death of state troops at Crooked River, Governor Boggs immediately drafted his extermination order on 27 October 1838 because the MORMONS 'HAVE MADE WAR UPON THE PEOPLE OF THIS STATE.' Worse, the killing of one Missourian and mutilation of another while he was defenseless at Crooked River led to the mad-dog revenge by Missourians in the slaughter at Haun's Mill" (Origins of Power, p.100).

Secondary source: Violence in Early Mormonism - Was It All Unjust Persecution?

From this same article posted by Gamecock: If violence against a certain faith were the only way to determine truth, then certainly the Mormons themselves would have to recognize that our Christian faith was just as viable as theirs. Can a Mormon, off the top of his head, recall when the last Mormon was killed just because he was a Mormon? Certainly we have heard of Mormons being tragically killed while serving missions, but these cases involve circumstances other than true martyrdom (robberies, car accidents, being mistaken for CIA agents, etc). On the other hand, it is not uncommon to hear of Christians around the world who are being killed because they refuse to denounce their belief that Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life. While martyrdom seems to be a thing of the past for the Mormons, it is a common occurrence among those who have placed their total trust in the Jesus of the Bible.” (Bill McKeever)

[TimeofReason]

One of the favorite accusations against the Church is that we believe Christ and Satan our brothers. What is not said that we believe that we are all brothers and sisters, and God, is literally our Father in Heaven. Jesus is His son, as are all of us.

That may seem radical, but it is all over in the New Testament. Did not Christ teach us to pray: Matthew 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

Matthew 18:14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

Matthew 7: 11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

Matthew 5: 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Matthew 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

There are many more statements by Jesus Christ, where He refers to God as our Father, too. If you truly believe the Bible to be the word of God, perhaps you should think about these specific words that Jesus said.

[Moonman62]

People should understand the total circumstances of the massacre before using it to judge modern day Mormons.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_hysteria_preceding_the_Mountain_Meadows_massacre

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

And Hillary didn't even come close to winning the state./i>

Hillary won Nevada because Clark County, which has the most Mormons in the state, voted for her. 200,000 thousand Mormons also voted for Egg McMuffin in Utah, the CIA chimpanzee who is currently working with the well-known Mormon Mafia that dominates in the FBI and CIA. Mormon propensity to work for each other, cover up for each other, favor each other, and to dominate in the name of Joseph Smith, are well known. Hence the comparisons to Jihadis and other un-American invaders.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

And Hillary didn't even come close to winning the state.

Hillary won Nevada because Clark County, which has the most Mormons in the state, voted for her. 200,000 thousand Mormons also voted for Egg McMuffin in Utah, the CIA chimpanzee who is currently working with the well-known Mormon Mafia that dominates in the FBI and CIA. Mormon propensity to work for each other, cover up for each other, favor each other, and to dominate in the name of Joseph Smith, are well known. Hence the comparisons to Jihadis and other un-American invaders.

[Wallace T.]

The Mormons have some skeletons in their closet. So do the Catholics (the Inquisition), the Anglicans (Penal Laws in Ireland and England), the Calvinists (persecution of alleged witches and dissenters in Scotland, Geneva, and New England), the Russian Orthodox (persecution of non-Orthodox Christians and Jews), etc. Although the Baptists and Methodists never had a state-sanctioned church, many, including many ministers, happily joined the Ku Klux Klan in the 1920s when that organization actively persecuted blacks, Catholics, and Jews.

[Colofornian]

So you cite a Wikipedia source which includes a quote from sentence 4 of graph 2 which is essentially saying “let’s extract revenge” for what occurred 13, 20, 25 yrs earlier...and to do so vs. innocent babies, toddlers, preteens, teens, their moms and dads? We’ll steal all their finest of horses; strip all corpses of clothing to keep; steal all their wagon train content, food, weapons...having executed all but 17 at either point blank range or in the early volley of attack...And we’ll kidnap the youngest and keep them for a few yrs before the army extracts them. But you probably were attempting to deflect from that context, eh?

[Moonman62]

I meant what I said. Stop trying to twist it into something else.

[Colofornian]

Here is one key distinction between this particular Lds "skeleton" and thise of other faiths: Most of these others indeed treat them as skeletons to be buried and remain buried...not lauded.

You don't have Calvinists who were witch burners getting prominent universities named after them...And you don't have Baptists & Methodists naming prominent universities after torch-bearing KKK members.

That can't be said about Brigham Young. Lds are not only NOT ashamed of him, their most prestigious universe across the globe bears his name! Young was both prophet and territorial governor in 1857 and continued into the 1870s. Some allege that his control of the church was so tight, there's no way he didn't know or didn't authorize the killings. John D. Lee was essentially an adopted son of Young. We know at the very least that Young's decades-long cover up was worse than Hillary Clinton's.

[AppyPappy]

“We also consider the Book of Mormon another Testament of Jesus Christ. “

Dude, don’t awaken the sleeping Copy-and-Paste giants.

[TimeofReason]

To all of you who are posting vile things against the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints aka Mormons:

(I am going to assume that you all believe in Jesus Christ.) Don’t you understand we are on your side. We are anxiously awaiting and preparing for the coming of Jesus Christ to start His glorious Millennial reign. We are preparing spiritually, physically and mentally to endure the tribulations that are beginning.

We want to be counted as among the Lord’s valiant servants, who will be a light to the world and defend the free agency of all people from the despots who would extinguish liberty. Everyone on the earth has sinned and continues to sin, save for our perfect Lord, Jesus. But, God can work with imperfect vessels. Let us not bicker among ourselves considering particular points of doctrine, or actions of our predecessors, but instead unite under God’s banner, with determination to conquer the enemy of us all.

Satan is real, and particularly delights in generating contention, particularly among those who strive to follow the teachings of Jesus.

Let us unite to vanquish this foe, and all those who support and work for him.

[Elsie]

You seem to have left out a LOT of stuff that Mormonism teaches.

We believe in Jesus Christ.

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What Joseph Smith Means to Us  (From: various sources )

 

 

 

"He (Joseph Smith) is the man through whom God has spoken... yet I would not like to call him a savior, though in a certain capacity he was a god to us, and is to the nations of the earth, and will continue to be."

- Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:321

 

 

 

 

"You call us fools; but the day will be, gentlemen and ladies, whether you belong to this Church or not, when you will prize brother Joseph Smith as the Prophet of the Living God, and look upon him as a god..."

- Herber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses 5:88

 

 

 

 

"If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by him [Joseph Smith]; if we enter our glory, it will be through the authority he has received. We cannot get around him [Joseph Smith]"

- (as quoted in 1988 Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide, p. 142)

There is "no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God"

- Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190

 

 

 

 

"I tell you, Joseph holds the keys, and none of us can get into the celestial kingdom without passing by him. We have not got rid of him, but he stands there as the sentinel, holding the keys of the kingdom of God; and there are many of them beside him. I tell you, if we get past those who have mingled with us, and know us best, and have a right to know us best, probably we can pass all other sentinels as far as it is necessary, or as far as we may desire. But I tell you, the pinch will be with those that have mingled with us, stood next to us, weighed our spirits, tried us, and proven us: there will be a pinch, in my view, to get past them. The others, perhaps, will say, If brother Joseph is satisfied with you, you may pass. If it is all right with him, it is all right with me. Then if Joseph shall say to a man, or if brother Brigham say to a man, I forgive you your sins, "Whosoever sins ye remit they are remitted unto them;" if you who have suffered and felt the weight of transgression—if you have generosity enough to forgive the sinner, I will forgive him: you cannot have more generosity than I have. I have given you power to forgive sins, and when the Lord gives a gift, he does not take it back again."

- Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p.154-155

 

 

 

 

"It is because the Lord called Joseph Smith that salvation is again available to mortal men.... If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation,"

- Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 396, 670

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They succeeded in killing Joseph, but he had finished his work.

He was a servant of God, and gave us the Book of Mormon.

He said the Bible was right in the main, but, through the translators and others, many precious portions were suppressed, and several other portions were wrongly translated; and now his testimony is in force, for he has sealed it with his blood.

As I have frequently told them, no man in this dispensation will enter the courts of heaven, without the approbation of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Jun.

Who has made this so?

Have I?

Have this people?

Have the world?

No; but the Lord Jehovah has decreed it.

If I ever pass into the heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of the Prophet Joseph.

If you ever pass through the gates into the Holy City, you will do so upon his certificate that you are worthy to pass.

Can you pass without his inspection?

No; neither can any person in this dispensation, which is the dispensation of the fulness of times.

In this generation, and in all the generations that are to come, everyone will have to undergo the scrutiny of this Prophet.

They say that they killed Joseph, and they will yet come with their hats under their arms and bend to him; but what good will it do them, unless they repent?

They can come in a certain way and find favor, but will they?

Brigham Young,

--JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, vol. 8, p. 224

[Elsie]

It is a record of the ancestors of the Native Americans, who fled Jerusalem in 600 BC because of the people’s wickedness and threats to kill the Prophet Lehi.

Some record.

NOTHING has ever been found outside of it's internal claim of authenticity.

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The BIGGEST battle EVER recorded; and not ONE even teeny bit of evidence of it can be found!!

 

 

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The Book of Ether

Chapter 15

Millions of the Jaredites are slain in battle—Shiz and Coriantumr assemble all the people to mortal combat—The Spirit of the Lord ceases to strive with them—The Jaredite nation is utterly destroyed—Only Coriantumr remains.

 1 And it came to pass when Coriantumr had recovered of his wounds, he began to remember the ^awords which Ether had spoken unto him.

 2 He saw that there had been slain by the sword already nearly ^atwo millions of his people, and he began to sorrow in his heart; yea, there had been slain two millions of mighty men, and also their wives and their children.

 3 He began to repent of the evil which he had done; he began to remember the words which had been spoken by the mouth of all the prophets, and he saw them that they were fulfilled thus far, every whit; and his soul ^amourned and refused to be ^bcomforted.

 4 And it came to pass that he wrote an epistle unto Shiz, desiring him that he would spare the people, and he would give up the kingdom for the sake of the lives of the people.

 5 And it came to pass that when Shiz had received his epistle he wrote an epistle unto Coriantumr, that if he would give himself up, that he might slay him with his own sword, that he would spare the lives of the people.

 6 And it came to pass that the people repented not of their iniquity; and the people of Coriantumr were stirred up to anger against the people of Shiz; and the people of Shiz were stirred up to anger against the people of Coriantumr; wherefore, the people of Shiz did give battle unto the people of Coriantumr.

 7 And when Coriantumr saw that he was about to fall he fled again before the people of Shiz.

 8 And it came to pass that he came to the waters of Ripliancum, which, by interpretation, is large, or to exceed all; wherefore, when they came to these waters they pitched their tents; and Shiz also pitched his tents near unto them; and therefore on the morrow they did come to battle.

 9 And it came to pass that they fought an exceedingly sore battle, in which Coriantumr was wounded again, and he fainted with the loss of blood.

 10 And it came to pass that the armies of Coriantumr did press upon the armies of Shiz that they beat them, that they caused them to flee before them; and they did flee southward, and did pitch their tents in a place which was called Ogath.

 11 And it came to pass that the army of Coriantumr did pitch their tents by the hill Ramah; and it was that same hill where my father Mormon did ^ahide up the records unto the Lord, which were sacred.

 12 And it came to pass that they did gather together all the people upon all the face of the land, who had not been slain, save it was Ether.

 13 And it came to pass that Ether did ^abehold all the doings of the people; and he beheld that the people who were for Coriantumr were gathered together to the army of Coriantumr; and the people who were for Shiz were gathered together to the army of Shiz.

 14 Wherefore, they were for the space of four years gathering together the people, that they might get all who were upon the face of the land, and that they might receive all the strength which it was possible that they could receive.

 15 And it came to pass that when they were all gathered together, every one to the army which he would, with their wives and their children—both men, women and children being armed with ^aweapons of war, having shields, and ^bbreastplates, and head-plates, and being clothed after the manner of war—they did march forth one against another to battle; and they fought all that day, and conquered not.

 16 And it came to pass that when it was night they were weary, and retired to their camps; and after they had retired to their camps they took up a howling and a ^alamentation for the loss of the slain of their people; and so great were their cries, their howlings and lamentations, that they did rend the air exceedingly.

 17 And it came to pass that on the morrow they did go again to battle, and great and terrible was that day; nevertheless, they conquered not, and when the night came again they did rend the air with their cries, and their howlings, and their mournings, for the loss of the slain of their people.

 18 And it came to pass that Coriantumr wrote again an epistle unto Shiz, desiring that he would not come again to battle, but that he would take the kingdom, and spare the lives of the people.

 19 But behold, the ^aSpirit of the Lord had ceased striving with them, and ^bSatan had full power over the ^chearts of the people; for they were given up unto the hardness of their hearts, and the blindness of their minds that they might be destroyed; wherefore they went again to battle.

 20 And it came to pass that they fought all that day, and when the night came they slept upon their swords.

 21 And on the morrow they fought even until the night came.

 22 And when the night came they were ^adrunken with anger, even as a man who is drunken with wine; and they slept again upon their swords.

 23 And on the morrow they fought again; and when the night came they had all fallen by the sword save it were fifty and two of the people of Coriantumr, and sixty and nine of the people of Shiz.

 24 And it came to pass that they slept upon their swords that night, and on the morrow they fought again, and they contended in their might with their swords and with their shields, all that day.

 25 And when the night came there were thirty and two of the people of Shiz, and twenty and seven of the people of Coriantumr.

 26 And it came to pass that they ate and slept, and prepared for death on the morrow. And they were large and mighty men as to the strength of men.

 27 And it came to pass that they fought for the space of three hours, and they fainted with the loss of blood.

 28 And it came to pass that when the men of Coriantumr had received sufficient strength that they could walk, they were about to flee for their lives; but behold, Shiz arose, and also his men, and he swore in his wrath that he would slay Coriantumr or he would perish by the sword.

 29 Wherefore, he did pursue them, and on the morrow he did overtake them; and they fought again with the sword. And it came to pass that when they had ^aall fallen by the sword, save it were Coriantumr and Shiz, behold Shiz had fainted with the loss of blood.

 30 And it came to pass that when Coriantumr had leaned upon his sword, that he rested a little, he smote off the head of Shiz.

 31 And it came to pass that after he had smitten off the head of Shiz, that Shiz raised up on his hands and ^afell; and after that he had struggled for breath, he died.

 32 And it came to pass that ^aCoriantumr fell to the earth, and became as if he had no life.

 33 And the Lord spake unto Ether, and said unto him: Go forth. And he went forth, and beheld that the words of the Lord had all been fulfilled; and he ^afinished his ^brecord; (and the ^chundredth part I have not written) and he hid them in a manner that the people of Limhi did find them.

 34 Now the last words which are written by ^aEther are these: Whether the Lord will that I be translated, or that I suffer the will of the Lord in the flesh, it mattereth not, if it so be that I am ^bsaved in the kingdom of God. Amen.

 

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/ether/15

 

And yet the BOOK says...

Ether 14:22
And so swift and speedy was the war that there was none left to bury the dead, but they did march forth from the shedding of blood to the shedding of blood, leaving the bodies of both men, women, and children strewed upon the face of the land, to become a prey to the worms of the flesh.

[Elsie]

So, I read things like the Apocrypha, and trust that God will teach me what is true and what is not.

That's our prayer for you Mormons.

Study SLC's records. That's what I have done.

[Elsie]

I invite you to read the Book of Mormon.

Why?

Hardly any of LDS doctrine is found there.

It's all in the D&C's!

[Elsie]

Each year, in Sunday School, we study a different book of Scripture. One year, it is the Old Testament, then New Testament.

Really?

HMMMmmm...

[Elsie]

Each year, in Sunday School, we study a different book of Scripture.

I like the Book Of Abraham. It's kinda cool...

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Kolob is a star or planet described in Mormon scripture.                             

Reference to Kolob is found in the Book of Abraham.

 

 "If You Could Hie to Kolob", the hymn

 

 Kolob as the inspiration for Kobol in Battlestar Galactica

 

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolob

 

 

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Figure	Joseph Smith Explanation[52]	Explanation by non-Mormon and Mormon Egyptologists (quotes are from Deveria)[25][43][53]
1	Kolob, signifying the first creation, nearest to the celestial, or the residence of God. First in government, the last pertaining to the measurement of time. The measurement according to celestial time, which celestial time signifies one day to a cubit. One day in Kolob is equal to a thousand years according to the measurement of this earth, which is called by the Egyptians Jah-oh-eh.	"The spirit of the four elements (according to Champollion), or rather of the four winds, or the four cardinal points; the soul of the terrestrial world. This god is always represented with four rams' heads, and his image has certainly been altered here. — They have also evidently made a very clumsy attempt at copying the double human head of the god figured above, fig. 2, instead of the four rams' heads. The word Jah-oh-eh has nothing Egyptian in it; it resembles the Hebrew word [redacted] badly transcribed." (emphasis in original) The name hieroglyph above the central figure is Chnm-Re, the Egyptian "First Creator" god who organized everything out of the primordial chaos.

 

 

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Abraham

 

 

[Elsie]

Brigham Young was not only the prophet of his church in 1857 into the 1870s, but also territorial gov. How many Lds were convicted of this crime? One. John D. Lee.

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"I am a true believer in the gospel of Jesus Christ, I do not believe everything that is now being taught and practiced by Brigham Young.

 I do not care who hears it. It is my last word - it is so.

 I believe he is lead­ing the people astray, downward to destruction.

 But I believe in the gospel that was taught in its purity by Joseph Smith, in former days.

 I have my reasons for it.

 

"I studied to make this man's [Brigham Young] will my pleasure for thirty years.

See, now, what I have come to this day!

 

"I have been sacrificed in a cowardly, dastardly manner." (Lee enun­ciated this sentence with marked emphasis.)

 

 

Excerpted from -->  http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/mountainmeadows/leeexecution.html

[Elsie]

What ever happened to the Harmony project, and is it part of what the Mormons are planning?

I have no idea.

Let's check with Google®.