Posted on 02/09/2017 5:25:06 PM PST by grumpa
Many Christians understand the book to have been written around AD 95/96. They simply take this late date for Revelation on faith, without ever checking it out. But there is strong and convincing evidence that the book was written prior to AD 70 when Jerusalem and the temple were destroyed. Over 130 authors, from different theological persuasions, have been identified as holding to a pre-AD 70 date, during the latter years of the reign of Nero, who ruled Rome from AD 54 to 68.
The argument for the late date of Revelation rests principally on a single AMBIGUOUS, THIRD-HAND comment by the second-century church father Irenaeus (c. AD 180). Scholars have puzzled over how to understand his comment, which can be interpreted in different ways, and there is considerable contrary evidence. This one blurb from Irenaeus is pretty much all the late daters have. Irenaeus, by the way, is known to have made other historical and theological errors, which the interested reader can explore on the Internet.
Actually, John, the author of Revelation, probably died prior to AD 70. . . .
(Excerpt) Read more at onedrive.live.com ...
That may or may be true. It is conjecture and not recorded anywhere that Paul did so.
In other words, it is just an opinion. From PBS?
Logical fallacy of Appeal to Authority.
We see this as "settled science" too.
I want a refund on the "pain and suffering and no more tears clause!
But the Preterists insist that an honest analysis of all scripture demands their interpretation is correct, and theirs alone.
But then, most views say the same thing.
Too many things the preterists cannot explain for me after 50 years of serious study of the scripture.
NO VIEW can explain all things. I knew Hal Lindsay in the 60’s and he was sure he had it all figured out then. But history didn’t play his way then.
The person who insists that he/she has it all together - I run from.....
I do know this: Jesus warned often, “Watch & pray - we know not what hour He will come.” Revelation ends with “Come, Lord Jesus, Come!”
If those are in our heart - we’ll be ok. Spiritually. Physically? Only God knows.....
The authorities cited here are postmillenial scholars like Bahnsen, or amillenial ones like Bultmann. Amillenialism has been the predominant view of the Catholic Church since Augustine, and it was the view of Luther and Calvin. These schools of eschatology are dependent upon a pre AD 70 date for Revelation. If John had been killed during the Jewish-Roman War, then that book likely refers to the events surrounding the fall of national Israel during that conflict.
Arlis, we’ve both been around FR since 95 AD and yet I don’t think I ever ran into you. Nice to know you’re here.
“In other words, it is just an opinion. From PBS?”
You really think that is cunning, don’t you. No, Bible historians say it because it was on a Roman coin, which is not conjecture.
That it was on a coin and whether Paul quoted it are an unproven connection that remains an opinion.
The authorities cited here are postmillenial scholars like Bahnsen, or amillenial ones like Bultmann. Amillenialism has been the predominant view of the Catholic Church since Augustine, and it was the view of Luther and Calvin. These schools of eschatology are dependent upon a pre AD 70 date for Revelation.
No, they are not.
A wise view, but here you are dealing with a blogger who not only teaches that teaches the resurrection is past already (cf. 2 Timothy 2:17-18) ) and (i presume) that most all (or all) in the book of Revelation has been fulfilled, thus rendering the devil to be bound that he should deceive the nations no more,
but who warns about "the Cursed" " Grave Error of the Trinity," which "Destroys the Faith of Christ," which "means that we cannot become like the Son of God" (sinless in this life), even linking it to Revelation 13; and (not unsurprisingly) argues that Attending Church is Unbiblical; - http://hubpages.com/@planksandnails
Not all he says on his blog is wrong, but with his mixture of truth and error he is one you should be warned of.
from That the World May Know:
The world of Asia was suddenly a very dangerous place for the rapidly growing Christian communities. The believers must be willing to call Caesar “Lord and God” or risk death. Everyone was expected to participate in the regular festivals in which he was acknowledged as divine. Before they entered a city they had to offer incense honoring him as god. This explains change from the book of Acts to Revelation. The emperors claimed not only the titles but the rights as well. They must be obeyed in whatever they demanded fop they were “gods” whether taxes, confiscation of property, or any other act. There was no escape for the believers. They could not buy in the market or conduct their business without acknowledging the authority of the emperor over the city. They could not walk through the city without stopping at his altars to acknowledge his “lordship.” They could not travel for every town they came to demanded their act of allegiance to the divine emperor. The public fountains providing drinking water for the towns and cities were devoted to the Emperor. Before drawing water one must acknowledge the emperor as the provider of life itself. And enforcing this Satanic policy? The incredible power of the greatest empire the world had ever known. No one had ever resisted its sword for very long. And the believers? Most were not the wealthy and powerful but ordinary people without influence on anyone. This was combined with the bloodthirsty character of the emperors themselves who did not hesitate to order people to suffer the most horrifying tortures ever devised. Nero, who used burning Christians as lights for his own banquets, who raped male and female Christians who had been arrested, who sent thousands to the arena to be torn to pieces in front of parents, children, and friends, set the standard for the treatment of these followers of the Galilean Rabbi. If you read the book of Revelation in light of these conditions, you are gripped by how virulently anti Roman it is, and what kind of suffering the believers were facing. But Caesar was not Lord! He just did not know it yet, even when the “atheist” Christians did.
Who told you it doesn't end???
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
So Jesus did not inspire Paul to write that...Well sure, I believe that...
If such a coin was found, it was copied from scripture...
Introduction to the Gospel of John.
Note the date.
http://www.usccb.org/bible/scripture.cfm?bk=John&ch=
Remember that John lived a long life and basically wrote a theological Gospel rather than a synoptic Gospel.
Probably written in the 90s.
I misread what you said. Thanks.
Irenaeus was convinced on the later date of Revelation.
The date John penned this book is really irrelevant. John states that he was taken in ‘spirit’ to the Lord’s Day... John is shown ancient history all the way to the eternity. The Lord’s Day does not begin until Christ returns for a harvest.
I started as a lurker when FR was first started, and was scared to death to post anything. Age changes one greatly.
I began posting I think soon after 2000, and now do so fearlessly, but always seeking God for wisdom on what to say - I don’t care for superfluous posts, and try to post only when I think a point needs to be made.
I now do post fairly frequently.
Good to meet you too - you may be interested in seeing some of my previous posts on other threads - I’d skip the shorter ones - the longer ones are where I felt something important needed to be stated.
God bless.......
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