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To: Luircin

You are simply unable to address the message of Scripture in its entirety.

St. Paul writes, in Romans 3:28 “For we hold that a person is justified by faith apart from works prescribed by the law.”

But this was not enough for Luther. This is the verse to which Luther added the word alone after the word faith in his German translation. There is simply no basis in the Greek text for this translation and the addition seems arbitrary, if not intentional, to bolster his novel doctrine of sola fide.

(Note: This change does not seem to persist in any KJV text today.)
The other seemingly disingenuous element of Luther’s interpretation of Romans 3:28 was to ignore the significance of the phrase “prescribed by the law”.
We gain insight by reading on to the next verse.
Romans 3:29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also,
Here we see that Paul’s intent was to emphasize that Gentiles too are saved by faith, because they were never subject to Jewish law, and their salvation could not be subject to following it. Recall the discussions regarding the need to circumcise the Gentiles? Paul’s clear instruction was that circumcision was not necessary under the New Covenant.

Here we see that St. Paul is not saying that no works of any kind are required, but that “works of the law” are not required.

Galatians 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything; the only thing that counts is faith working through love.


321 posted on 05/11/2017 11:34:52 AM PDT by G Larry (There is no great virtue in bargaining with the Devil)
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To: G Larry; metmom

“Simply no basis,” you say?

Logical fallacy: Just Because. You’re telling me to accept what you say with NO evidence other than your word. Sorry, but that argument only works for God himself. In other words, PROVE IT.

Oh, and while you’re at it, are you to say that ALL the other verses in question that my friend metmom posted are just purposefully mistranslated by the EEEEEVIL Luther?

Jeez.

And for that matter, what the heck are ‘works of the Law’ as opposed to the ‘works’ you talk about? What good works are there that aren’t of the Law?


322 posted on 05/11/2017 11:49:51 AM PDT by Luircin
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To: G Larry

And because you addressed a single verse, my turn.

“James 2:14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if you say you have faith but do not have works? Can faith save you? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and lacks daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and eat your fill,” and yet you do not supply their bodily needs, what is the good of that? 17 So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead.”

Of course I’m not arguing that. My position has ALWAYS been—and the position of nearly all Protestant churches—that faith and good works HAVE to go together. If there are no good works, faith is non-existent.


323 posted on 05/11/2017 11:56:02 AM PDT by Luircin
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To: G Larry

Oh, and after I did a little more research, thank you for spewing ANOTHER Catholic talking point, when I thought you were willing to actually contend with me. I am disappointed.

This statement of yours betrays a lack of understanding even the basics of translation practice. For when you say that Luther added a word to the German it carries with it the unspoken accusation that he added to the meaning of the Greek. That is simply not the case.

Let me give you a quote from the man himself.

“You tell me, besides, that the papists are making a tremendous fuss, because the word sola is not in Paul’s text, and this addition of mine to the words of God is not to be tolerated...But because I knew—and still see with my own eyes—that none of them knows how to translate, or to speak German, I spared them and myself that trouble.”

In other words, Luther was well aware of what people were saying about him. Luther, meanwhile, knew both Greek and German well enough to know that the meaning of the Greek would be misinterpreted without that qualifier in German.

Going back to the original Greek, on the other hand, we see Paul shifting the word ‘faith’ out of its normal position to front-load it. In other words, adding special emphasis to the word ‘faith.’ In Koine Greek, consider that a triple exclamation point. Following the statement that we are justified by faith (!!!) Paul adds a strong adverb to emphasize the separation between justification by faith and justification by works.

There, is that enough ‘addressing the message of Scripture’ or are you going to insult me again?


325 posted on 05/11/2017 12:10:22 PM PDT by Luircin
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To: G Larry
But this was not enough for Luther. This is the verse to which Luther added the word alone after the word faith in his German translation. There is simply no basis in the Greek text for this translation and the addition seems arbitrary, if not intentional, to bolster his novel doctrine of sola fide.

Luther translated the Bible and he was correct as far as the meaning of this passage. You simply must read the section that this single verse appears within to follow Paul's argument.

Romans 3:21–31

Justification by Faith

21 But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;
25 whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed;
26 for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
27 Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith.
28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.
29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also,
30 since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one.
31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

Paul demonstrates to Jews that both Jews and non-Jews have one God. Paul proves this by declaring that Jews and non-Jews are declared righteous based entirely on faith and apart from "works of the Law."

If you look at any 10 translations online (Bible Hub does this), you will notice that translations range from absolutely literal - almost word for word - to dynamic.

Luther expressed the exact argument of Paul in his translation. God declares men who believe righteous based on faith alone.

It is as accurate today as the day he translated this verse.

332 posted on 05/11/2017 2:36:18 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: G Larry
You are simply unable to address the message of Scripture in its entirety.

Spoken by a fella that ignores the separate pieces...

Call no man father...


367 posted on 05/11/2017 6:45:11 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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