Posted on 03/30/2002 7:53:37 PM PST by malakhi
| Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
No, the category of obedience is incorrect. The New Covenant requires love which is willing to follow Jesus through the empowerment of the Holy Spirit.
I have told you twice now, and IMRight linked you to a version of it online, that the Revised Standard Version uses the same language:
Luke 1:28 - "Hail, Full of Grace."
The RSV is still in use today, and in fact that very passage in the RSV was read at a Mass I attended today.
That versions have crept in echoing the political "bend" and poor translation of protestant bibles in the New American Bible and probably other languages as well is a tragedy to, I'm sure, a vast multitude of Catholics. Just one more reason to clean house.
v.
Nobody would believe me when I told them allend was an expert at recognizing this stuff. Oh well.
Obedience to God and Christ is love...
1Jo 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments, and His commandments are not burdensome.
I know what Brian Kopp is talking about, has nothing to do with my replys to him.
BigMack
You could have just stated that you cut and pasted CE. CE quotes Eusebius like he knew something and was reliable. Let me give you a hint about His reliabiltity. Michael Grant wrote "Constantine the Great: the man and his times" under the Scribners label. He Is High on history and mediocre on fluff. I picked the book up about a week ago. And he flatly says as a historian exactly what most historians say, "If we are to understand Constantine at all, we have to read Eusebius - with a grain of salt. We read much prais of the emperor; and in his Life, which was Eusebius' last work, the praise swells into full-scale, highly coloured, romantic ecomium, marred further by interpolations and additions.."(p.4) on the same page within a few sentence, he goes on: "Unfortuneately, however, Eusebius was not only a mediocre stylist but a depressingly unobjective historian. Despite his occasional touches of scholarly caution, and his refusals from time to tiem to believe improbabilities and lies (notably in the matter of Constantine's 'vision'), he falsified the emperor into a mere sanctimonious devotee, which he was not, and showed himself guilty of numerous contradictions and dishonest supressions, and indeed erroneous statements of fact, or untruths. For even if not deliberately fraudulent, Eusebius was indifferent to precision, for example in relation to chronology, and his quotations from sources are often inaccurate and garbled."
Now, what does all that mean. Well, in short, everything you don't want to do if you want your work considered reliable, Eusebius did. Not only did he do it, he did it with a contemporary. And the obviety there is that the man lived in the same time and lived the events and rather than tell facts he told what sounded good and fit his view. And he is not the only problem child regarding "Catholic History" But he is a banner example of what your clergy considers authoritative. And we have yet to touch on the matter of any of the forgeries that found their way into his works as fact. So, if you want to quote CE which then quotes this hack, you'd do better to quote air and pretend you said something.
Not your fault. It's what you were taught, or rather what you weren't, I'm sure.
I disagree especially with reference to the Scripture you quoted. I believe the most one can say is "obedience to God and Christ is evidence of love."
John 13:34
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.
Ephesians 2:15
by abolishing in his flesh the law of commandments and ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace,
1 John 2:7
Beloved, I am writing you no new commandment, but an old commandment which you had from the beginning; the old commandment is the word which you have heard.
2 John 1:5
And now I beg you, lady, not as though I were writing you a new commandment, but the one we have had from the beginning, that we love one another.
The Apostle John also said, "Little children let us love one another, for love is of God."
I vote yes for....."Quote of the Day."
Reggie, this is what they call their presumed right to add their man made rules to scripture and pronounce them equal with God's word the same way the Pharisees did. IE - God didn't give us his rules, he's letting us make it up as we go along...
Like I said, you need to read a concordance and look up all the iterations and see what it says. Acts 5 specifically reserves the baptism of the Holy Spirit for the obedient. Yet Mark 16 requires it. IE obedience is required if you're going to get anywhere with God. Mark 16 is backed up by John 10 and Romans 8 in which it is stated that you are still under condemnation if you aren't following the spirit and that if you don't have the spirit, you're none of his.
Yep, obedience to God is paramount. And Paul advised that though the sacrifice of the cross has set us free from the penalty of the law, it does not give us freedom to sin at will as though we were heathens.
Undoubtedly love is our goal:
Mat 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the Law?
Mat 22:37 Jesus said to him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.
Unfortunately "love" means different things to different people. Luckily, God in his love and wisdom foresaw this and actually defined what love toward God and love toward other manifests as: The Ten Commandents.
That's what Christ meant in matthew 22:40...The first 4 commandments define love toward God, the last 6 love toward of fellow man.
Joh 14:15 If you love Me, keep My commandments.
Joh 14:21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves Me. And he who loves Me shall be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will reveal Myself to him.
Joh 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you shall abide in My love, even as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.
Rom 13:9 For: "Do not commit adultery; do not murder; do not steal; do not bear false witness; do not lust;" and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this word, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Fortunately for us, God in his great love and wisdom has actually defined for us what love is.
Well, let me bring out at least one point of note from that thread (thanks for posting the link, BTW, as it saved me the trouble of searching for it).
| To: proud2bRC just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church For the sake of clarity, is not the "c" in "Catholic" left uncapitalized in the original? That is, didn't Ignatius use the word as an adjective rather than as a proper noun? 53 posted on 3/31/02 9:42 PM Central by angelo
To: angelo Yes, more than likely in the original it was a small "c". I'm not sure where I copied this HTML encoded text of Ignatius' words. Ignatius was using the word to mean "universal," i.e., accepting all the teachings of Christianity, not picking and choosing which parts to believe... 54 posted on 3/31/02 10:37 PM Central by Dr. Brian Kopp
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Yep, and I think it goes to an earlier point - shop for a version that supports your point (whether it's supported by the greek or not). That's ok ventana, we understand. Some on your side have made up verses in "original aramaic" and tried to pawn them off in here. It's expected.
Straight from the spirit LOL. I think God knows when I need a good laugh too.
Love is not defined so much by scripture as it is defined by Christ's death on the cross to save you and me.
Christ's blessings be with you.
Don't ya just hate that when it happens. ( apologist propaganda explodes :)
BigMack
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