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CATHOLIC WATCHDOG GROUP CALLS ON U.S. CARDINALS TO AFFIRM CHURCH TEACHING WHILE IN ROME
Roman Catholic Faithful, Inc. ^ | April 17, 2002 | Stephen G. Brady

Posted on 04/17/2002 2:17:23 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE 1 PM EDT, April 17, 2002

CATHOLIC WATCHDOG GROUP CALLS ON U.S. CARDINALS TO AFFIRM CHURCH TEACHING WHILE IN ROME

An international group of faithful Roman Catholics has contacted Vatican prelates and all active U.S. cardinals and asked them to publicly affirm the Church's 1961 pronouncement against admitting homosexuals or pedophiles to the priesthood.

Stephen G. Brady, the president of Roman Catholic Faithful, Inc. (RCF) issued a statement on Wednesday that was directed to 8 active U.S. cardinals as well as a number of additional American and Vatican prelates. The American cardinals include Roger Mahony of Los Angeles, Francis George of Chicago, Theodore McCarrick of Washington, D.C., William Keeler of Baltimore, Anthony Bevilacqua of Philadelphia, Edward Egan of New York City, Adam Maida of Detroit, and the currently embattled Bernard Law of Boston. They will be traveling to Rome next week with National Conference of Catholic Bishops president Bishop Wilton Gregory and others at the summons of the Holy Father. They will be participating in closed-door meetings with Vatican representatives to address the scandal and damage the Church in America is undergoing due to an increasing number of sexual abuse cases coming to light. A number of prelates have been accused of protecting abusive priests and moving them to other areas, where they have repeated their predatory acts with new victims. An overwhelming number of offenses have involved homosexual acts.

"As a measure of their sincerity in addressing this horrible crisis inflicting so much damage on the souls of the innocent," Brady charged, "we challenge each and every one of these princes of the Church to sign a statement agreeing they will follow the direction of a letter issued by the Sacred Congregation for Religious in Rome." Brady is asking each prelate to affirm the following declaration: "I, ________ Cardinal ________, hereby agree to follow the direction of the letter issued by the Sacred Congregation for Religious in Rome in 1961, which states: 'Those affected by the perverse inclination to homosexuality or pederasty should be excluded from religious vows and ordination'". The Church directive has never been rescinded and is still officially in force.

"If a cardinal is not willing to sign this document," Brady stated, "then there is no point in his traveling to Rome. Moreover, if he travels to Rome and doesn't sign it, I wish he'd do us a favor and just stay there."

Roman Catholic Faithful, Inc. (RCF) is a not-for-profit lay organization, with many religious members, dedicated to promoting orthodox Catholic teaching and fighting heterodoxy and corruption within the Catholic hierarchy.

ROMAN CATHOLIC FAITHFUL, INC.
P.O. Box 109
Petersburg, IL 62675
Phone 217-632-5920
Fax 217-632-7054
Web www.rcf.org

Press Release

Contact: Stephen G. Brady
Phone: (217) 632-5920


TOPICS: General Discusssion
KEYWORDS: catholiclist; christianlist
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From NRO Online The Corner:

BEST NEWS I'VE HEARD ALL DAY: [Rod Dreher] Michael Rose, author of Goodbye, Good Men, the blockbuster expose of homosexuality and heresy in American seminaries, e-mails to say he just filled an order from a Polish monsignor in the Vatican, who ordered four copies and promised to do his best to get a copy into the Holy Father's hands before the pontiff meets next week with the American cardinals. You go, Monsignor! If John Paul reads only chapter four, "The Gay Subculture," he will meet the cardinals with fire blazing in his eyes. In other good news, Regnery Publishing has bought rights to Goodbye, Good Men, which is now out only in paperback, and will be rushing a hardcover edition into stores next month. Regnery's involvement means this extremely important book will get huge distribution and exposure. Posted 1:50 PM | [Link]

1 posted on 04/17/2002 2:17:23 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
BTT
2 posted on 04/17/2002 2:18:38 PM PDT by Bigg Red
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
BTT
3 posted on 04/17/2002 2:18:39 PM PDT by Bigg Red
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To: *Catholic_list; patent; notwithstanding; JMJ333; Aunt Polgara; AgThorn; IM2Phat4U...
An international group of faithful Roman Catholics has contacted Vatican prelates and all active U.S. cardinals and asked them to publicly affirm the Church's 1961 pronouncement against admitting homosexuals or pedophiles to the priesthood.

Truly pathetic that the laity must be the ones calling on the Cardinals to be Catholic in more than name only. If they will not affirm this, and the Vatican will not enforce this, we might as well pull up the tent stakes and go home and wait for the Trumpets to sound.

4 posted on 04/17/2002 2:20:17 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
And, moreover, that the Church's teachings be honored without public dissent by faculty on ALL Catholic campuses, including colleges and universities as well as seminaries. If they don't do this, the problems just continue.

Here: another article

5 posted on 04/17/2002 2:22:43 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: Admin Moderator; Sidebar Moderator; Jim Robinson; *Catholic_list; patent; notwithstanding...
This is obviously a news article, not a "Religion Forum" article. Why was this pulled from the News Forum and placed in the Religion Forum? Its OK to bash the Church on the News Forum, but not defend the Church on the News Forum, or call for those measures that would solve the problem? This is a hypocritical double standard, and bespeaks a strong anti-Catholic bias here on Free Republic.
6 posted on 04/17/2002 2:27:59 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
"Truly pathetic that the laity must be the ones calling on the Cardinals to be Catholic in more than name only."

A sign of the times, Brian. The laity, in case the heirarchy haven't been looking lately (and they haven't), are virtually the only ones holding to the Magisterium these days. But the fact that the bishops and cardinals are dissembling, backpedaling, speechifying, LYING THROUGH THEIR TEETH, and generally trying to get us all not to notice the man behind the curtain tells me one thing: They have been covered up FOR at some time in the past. I wouldn't be a bit surprised to discover that more than half of these enabling bishops and cardinals were just as swishy as the "priests" they protect. I never dreamed that I would EVER have so little respect for the bishops of this country, but I know this: I would dearly love to stare one of these lying sacks of sh*t right in the eyes and see what he did about it. (The general guilty reaaction is fury!)

7 posted on 04/17/2002 2:30:03 PM PDT by redhead
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
I'm disgusted with those running this forum who censor anything that tries to fight or solve the problems in our church by removing it from the News Forum. This is intolerable. But I'm sure I'll be told its not my forum, I'm only a member, and Don't let the door hit you on your way out.

Amazing how FR lately has become so like the mainstream media, censoring anything that would reveal the Truth about this crisis by banishing it to the Religion Forum ghetto. I stand by my previous posts on this issue.

8 posted on 04/17/2002 2:32:12 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
ALL professors at Ave Maria College and Ave Maria School of Law take some sort of annual public oath of loyalty to the magisterium.
9 posted on 04/17/2002 2:36:38 PM PDT by Notwithstanding
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
Brian,

Be clever. Wait until the next "news" story about the scandal isposted and then post this piece "en toto" as a comment right away. That way you accomplish your goal: making sure FReepers get ALL the info - not just what big media want them to get. Keep using that tactic. It works.

10 posted on 04/17/2002 2:40:35 PM PDT by Notwithstanding
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
Oddly enough, I found this to be encouraging, not pathetic. I am encouraged that the laity have such an in-depth knowledge of pronouncements. I am also encouraged that we have such a declaration and that JPII is likely to enforce it.
11 posted on 04/17/2002 2:44:20 PM PDT by kidd
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To: Notwithstanding
Unfortunately, a number of professors at other Catholic institutions have refused to do this. Richard McBrien of Notre Dame even refused to seek a mandatum from his bishop to teach "Catholic theology." Anyone who has an emotionally visceral or strong hostility toward Catholic teaching, Catholic culture, or the Church in general should never be given authority in a Catholic classroom, lecture hall, chairmanship of a department, or a university president's office. Moreover, there are actually anti-Catholic non-Catholic faculty at some "Catholic" institutions of higher learning.
12 posted on 04/17/2002 2:47:13 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp; ELS; katnip;viadexter; pax_et_bonum; Romulus; GenXFreedomFighter; B-Chan...
This is an excellent development and helps calm me down over what Cardinal Law has been saying. I hope the Polish msgr. gets the copy of the book to the Holy Father.
13 posted on 04/17/2002 2:56:20 PM PDT by history_matters
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
Oh please, oh please, oh please ...
14 posted on 04/17/2002 2:58:33 PM PDT by Askel5
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To: Notwithstanding
Good advice. Ignore my FReepmail.
15 posted on 04/17/2002 2:59:24 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
sometimes it is bad to reaffirm stances because it shows that the view was called into question. as much as i agree with the stance against sodomite priests, i dont know what i think about a reaffirmation.
16 posted on 04/17/2002 3:14:44 PM PDT by pro-life
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
, we might as well pull up the tent stakes and go home and wait for the Trumpets to sound.

No need to pull up tent stakes and wait for the trumpets. Continue to pray. Receive the sacraments God has given to us from the priests we have (good and bad). Then just go about doing good. Don't worry if things don't go your way all the time. Just remember that the Holy Spirit is with us day and night until the end of time. It's grace. Everything is grace.

17 posted on 04/17/2002 4:19:06 PM PDT by Renatus
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To: Renatus
Amen. Thanks.
18 posted on 04/17/2002 4:28:08 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp;Catholic_List;Christian_List;patent

19 posted on 04/17/2002 4:51:20 PM PDT by TaRaRaBoomDeAyGoreLostToday!
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To: pro-life
sometimes it is bad to reaffirm stances because it shows that the view was called into question....

Better than reaffirmation is enforcement. Can I get an Amen? (Protestant lingo)

20 posted on 04/17/2002 4:51:53 PM PDT by drstevej
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To: TaRaRaBoomDeAyGoreLostToday!
Thank you ten thousand times for that cartoon.
21 posted on 04/17/2002 4:54:08 PM PDT by history_matters
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To: drstevej
Amen!
22 posted on 04/17/2002 4:57:54 PM PDT by pro-life
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
This is obviously a news article, not a "Religion Forum" article. Why was this pulled from the News Forum and placed in the Religion Forum?

Pardon my butting in here, but I think their decisions are made based on the source of the material posted. A newspaper website can be legitimately called "news", but something posted from a RC source or something from a Baptist website they are calling "religious". I have no inside information, just an observation.

23 posted on 04/17/2002 5:27:47 PM PDT by Iowegian
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp;history_matters
...he [Michael Rose] just filled an order from a Polish monsignor in the Vatican, who ordered four copies and promised to do his best to get a copy into the Holy Father's hands before the pontiff meets next week with the American cardinals.

I'm adding that Monsignor to my prayers!

24 posted on 04/17/2002 5:28:57 PM PDT by ELS
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
Why was this pulled from the News Forum and placed in the Religion Forum?

I found it under General Discussion

A comment on this article. I agree 1000% with this proposal to ask the Cardinala to bind themselves to disallow homosexuals into the priesthood, but it raises several issues:

1. How will the seminary identify homosexual applicants?
2. What method will the church use to identify which ordained priests, bishops and cardinals are homosexual, and if so, which are sexually active?
3. Once identified, how will they be removed?

If you missed this post today, this is a MUST READ

THE GAY PRIEST PROBLEM.

25 posted on 04/17/2002 5:32:26 PM PDT by NYer
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
Correction ... it was under Religion.
26 posted on 04/17/2002 5:37:20 PM PDT by NYer
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To: TaRaRaBoomDeAyGoreLostToday!
Great cartoon...now there are six standing under the rock waiting for the boom...how many are going over? 8? Which two are coming back !? This thread is a much needed dose of Hope.
27 posted on 04/17/2002 5:42:46 PM PDT by Domestic Church
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To: NYer
It's impossible to read what's in someone's heart and I think they could rely on interviews with the applicant, friends, family, past history and psychological testing. Of course, it's supposed to be that way now but I think it's being manipulated or ignored by those with a homosexual agenda. Then of course we have the celibacy issue. If the candidate remains celibate and silent about his internal feelings, then the homosexual issue becomes a moot point because no one would ever know. But I think the issue has been discussed here already as to whether a homosexual candidate can remain celibate.
28 posted on 04/17/2002 5:47:41 PM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
At least the laity knows what they believe and what to stand up for. I think the Holy Spirit is very active in the laity or else many fewer Catholics would know what they are supposed to believe. In many places if they're waiting to hear the Truth they are waiting in vain.
29 posted on 04/17/2002 5:50:15 PM PDT by tiki
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To: TaRaRaBoomDeAyGoreLostToday!
That's a great cartoon. Where did it come from?
30 posted on 04/17/2002 5:50:37 PM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
Thanks very much for the info! I received the following e-mail this afternoon from Fr.Fessio.I'm sure that everybody on Ignatius Press received it too.


A message from Fr. Joseph Fessio, S.J., Publisher, Ignatius Press.

In the papers, on the talk shows, the mantra is repeated: the cure for the present scandals is a married clergy. Of course, celibacy has nothing to do with these scandals: 1) Look at the Anglican church, which may soon be bankrupt in western Canada because of sex abuse lawsuits. 2) The majority of reported cased are of homosexual relations with young boys, not pedophilia; the perpetrators wouldn't be marrying women even if they had the chance. (And what kind of woman would marry these twisted souls?)

And, of course, all the discredited myths about the discipline of celibacy in the Catholic Church are trotted out.

For example:

Celibacy wasn't imposed in the Church until the 6th (or 9th, or 10th) century.

The motive for imposing celibacy was to prevent Church property from being inherited by the children of the clergy. The truth is that the Church's obligation of celibacy goes back to the apostles in an *unbroken* line. And the motivation for celibacy was the closer following of Jesus Christ, who required his apostles to leave wife and family, to become "eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom". But don't take my word for it. Ignatius Press has published three books which demolish the myths and provide compelling evidence for this unbroken tradition, the jewel of the Catholic priesthood:

The Case for Clerical Celibacy by Cardinal Alfons Stickler. This short (106pp) book masterfully sums up the results of the most authoritative scholarly research.

The Apostolic Origins of Priestly Celibacy by Fr. Christian Cocchini, S.J. This more extensive (466pp) book is the definitive scholarly study on this subject. It has never been refuted for the simple reason that it is irrefutable--all the evidence we have is clearly and cogently presented.

Celibacy in the Early Church by Stefan Heid. This book presents a penetrating and wide-ranging study of the historical data from the early Church on the topics of celibacy and clerical continence.

You'll also learn that the much-vaunted married clergy in Eastern churches was an innovation of the 7th century (Council *in Trullo*, 691--never recognized by Rome) based on documents later found out to have been forged. Skeptical? Read it for yourself.

By the way:

If you want to follow these and other controversies, get the inside information, and the unvarnished truth, you'll want to subscribe to Catholic World Report.

The Gay Priest Problem - Check out this special preview article from our upcoming May issue: Fr. Paul Shaughnessy's hard-hitting article on the Gay Priest Problem. Find out how problems in the Church have led to the current situation--and how we can prevent more abuse from happening.

If you are interested in learning more on these highly-charged topics, here are some other Ignatius Press titles you should consider: NEW - Priesthood and the Deaconate Deaconesses

Women in the Priesthood?

Truth about Homosexuality

31 posted on 04/17/2002 6:05:24 PM PDT by Lady In Blue
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To: goldenstategirl
It sure is good isn't it? I almost want to make it my new wallpaper!
32 posted on 04/17/2002 6:08:57 PM PDT by Lady In Blue
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To: Iowegian
A newspaper website can be legitimately called "news", but something posted from a RC source or something from a Baptist website they are calling "religious".

Thanks. Interesting...

33 posted on 04/17/2002 6:11:41 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
Let's do a test. I've got just the thing.
34 posted on 04/17/2002 6:52:55 PM PDT by Aunt Polgara
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To: tiki
At least the laity knows what they believe and what to stand up for

I don't believe that for a second. Some do but very few and that is the problem. For the most part parents in families have failed to hand down our sacred traditions. They brag about using artificial means of birth control. Look around you in your churches. How many families have more than three or more children? Very few. How many do you see involved in invalid marriages are marching up to receive communion? Look at the way the laity dress when they come to Mass. The signs are there for people who come to Sunday Eucharist to come modestly attired and still they come in haltars, tanktops and short shorts.----They have ignored the teaching of the Church proclaimed by many good priests throughout this nation. How many families gather with their children for an evening meal and then say the Rosary together every night. Most of our children don't even know the Rosary and many of the parents don't either.

Two hundred years ago in this nation the Catholic populace was more instructed in the teachings and practices of the Church than the children of today and they didn't have the advantage of Catholic schools and there were only a handful of priests in the whole nation. Yet the faith flourished because the homes were Catholic.

Basketball and tball and sports have replaced the Church and Christ as being the center of family life. I recently heard of one Catholic family who wouldn't let their daughter go see the Pope in Canada this summer because to do so she would have to miss her basketball camp. The girl wanted to go and the parents would not let her.

Don't go giving me all this "the faithful" bit. We are as much to blame and even moreso than our priests and bishops for this mess we are in.

35 posted on 04/17/2002 6:56:43 PM PDT by Renatus
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
Check it out on the news forum: here
36 posted on 04/17/2002 7:07:59 PM PDT by Aunt Polgara
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To: Lady In Blue
Great post! I pray that JPII will remind the Cardinals of their responsibilities that were laid out so clearly at the Council of Trent, Session XXIII. From Chapter XVIII concerning the Method of establishing Seminaries for Clerics, and of educating the same therein.

"The bishop shall take care that they (Seminarians) be present every day at the sacrifice of the mass, and that they confess their sins at least once a month; and receive the body of our Lord Jesus Christ as the judgment of their confessor shall direct; and on festivals serve in the cathedral and other churches of the place.

All which, and other things advantageous and needful for this object, all bishops shall ordain-with the advice of two of the senior and most experienced canons chosen by himself-as the Holy Spirit shall suggest; and shall make it their care, by frequent visitations, that the same be always observed. The froward, and incorrigible, and the disseminators of evil morals, they shall punish sharply, even by expulsion if necessary; and, removing all hindrances, they shall carefully foster whatsoever appears to tend to preserve and advance so pious and holy an institution."

Seems straightforward to me.

37 posted on 04/17/2002 7:12:17 PM PDT by pegleg
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To: Aunt Polgara
I believe I may have ruffled a few feathers lately (here, and here)and this little censorship is turnabout.

I see your thread is still up.

38 posted on 04/17/2002 7:27:38 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Renatus
Whoa!! I think you kind of went off there! I didn't say all the laity but the ones I am associated with are just as I describe them. As long as there are faithful in the Church there will be hope for the future.

I'm certainly no pollyanna, this scandal has thrown me for a loop but my faith is strong. And I can only do what I can do, ask God to have mercy on His Church and pray. I can and do try to be informed about what I should know as a Catholic and I know many more than myself. Are there misinformed people out there? Yeah, sure! Some are just plain ignorant and want to stay that way, some want to believe what they want to believe because they think it makes life easier for them and some could care less but the core of the laity, is informed and filled with faith. They can't change everything that is wrong overnight but their perseverance will pay off in the long run.

39 posted on 04/17/2002 7:41:49 PM PDT by tiki
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To: TaRaRaBoomDeAyGoreLostToday!
RE: 19

ROFL! =)

40 posted on 04/17/2002 7:47:12 PM PDT by JMJ333
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To: Renatus; tiki; Lady in Blue
My son's church has a wonderful Opus Dei priest. There are children everywhere, and they have Perpetual Adoration of Jesus in the Most Blessed Sacrament.

I'm told I'm old fashioned because I believe the answer for every troubled heart and our troubled Church can be found in spending our time with attentive minds and heartfelt devotion while adoring Jesus in the Holy Eucharist.

41 posted on 04/17/2002 7:49:48 PM PDT by history_matters
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To: pegleg
I pray that JPII will remind the Cardinals of their responsibilities that were laid out so clearly at the Council of Trent, Session XXIII. From Chapter XVIII concerning the Method of establishing Seminaries for Clerics, and of educating the same therein.

Trent ??? Trent ???

First, if you ever ran into a Catholic today who knows that there even was a Council of Trent (the Vatican II amnesiacs), they's say 'oh, but the Council repealed all that.'

ARTHUR
Each evening from December to December
Before you drift to sleep upon your cot
Think back on all the tales that you remember
Of Camelot

Ask every person if he's heard the story
And tell it strong and clear if he has not
That once there was a fleeting wisp of glory
Called Camelot

CHORUS
Camelot, Camelot
I know it gives a person pause
But in Camelot, Camelot
Those were the legal laws

ARTHUR
Where once it never rained till after sundown
By 8 AM the morning fog had flown
Don't let it be forgot
That once there was a spot
For one brief, shining moment

CHORUS
That was known as Camelot

lyrics by Alan Jay Lerner
42 posted on 04/17/2002 8:18:33 PM PDT by Mike Fieschko
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
Unfortunately, a number of professors at other Catholic institutions have refused to do this. Richard McBrien of Notre Dame even refused to seek a mandatum from his bishop to teach "Catholic theology." Anyone who has an emotionally visceral or strong hostility toward Catholic teaching, Catholic culture, or the Church in general should never be given authority in a Catholic classroom, lecture hall, chairmanship of a department, or a university president's office. Moreover, there are actually anti-Catholic non-Catholic faculty at some "Catholic" institutions of higher learning.

The problem is that the mandatum as implimented by the AmChurch doesn't have any teeth. The NCCB has dragged their feet on Ex Corde Ecclesiae for over ten years and come up with what amounts to mere symbolism. McBrien and his ilk will suffer no consequences for thumbing their noses at the Pope and the US Bishops.

We need to bring back a version of the anti-Modernist Oath, IMO; to those who don't take it, don't let the door hit your a$$ on the way out!

43 posted on 04/17/2002 8:24:47 PM PDT by Evangelium Vitae
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To: Mike Fieschko
First, if you ever ran into a Catholic today who knows that there even was a Council of Trent (the Vatican II amnesiacs), they's say 'oh, but the Council repealed all that.'

I know. But a man can dream can't he?

44 posted on 04/18/2002 4:21:39 AM PDT by pegleg
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To: Renatus
"For the most part parents in families have failed to hand down our sacred traditions. They brag about using artificial means of birth control. Look around you in your churches. How many families have more than three or more children? Very few. How many do you see involved in invalid marriages are marching up to receive communion? Look at the way the laity dress when they come to Mass. The signs are there for people who come to Sunday Eucharist to come modestly attired and still they come in haltars, tanktops and short shorts.----They have ignored the teaching of the Church proclaimed by many good priests throughout this nation. How many families gather with their children for an evening meal and then say the Rosary together every night. Most of our children don't even know the Rosary and many of the parents don't either."

This is all true, every word but it isn't just the parents...many states have usurped parental authority in education to the degree that the current generation never knew it was theirs to begin with and I can see in my own parish how the DRE does the same. I had to go to the Director of Religious Education in my Archdiocese just to get our parental rights to teach the faith to our children in our home as part of their Catholic Homeschool curricula. And then the DRE wouldn't let me use my choice of books even though they were approved by the NCCB...so I told her my daughter(turned 9 last month) was using the CCC(and she is.) Unfortunately the crisis in the Church is tied into the education machinery too.
45 posted on 04/18/2002 5:47:48 AM PDT by Domestic Church
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To: Evangelium Vitae
"The NCCB has dragged their feet..."

The NCCB is part of the whole problem. This bureaucratic BS, playing to TV cameras, the swarming cabals of liberal dissenting clerics, pressure groups, and lib journalists who follow the NCCB buffet events - all of this nonsense has very little to do with the spiritual/sacramental mission of the Church. You end up with a lot of bureaucratic double-speak jargon, loaded with hyphenated, conditionally qualified, hypothetical gobbledygook - which really means nothing in the final analysis. Ridiculous documents which result in further study of revised, bureaucratic position papers by bureaucratic committee just legitimize the PC dissent. And then you have "further study" of "further study" and more "prayerful reflection" on "prayerful reflection" ad infinitum. All this to wiggle around NOT saying directly and emphatically that homosexual behavior is wrong and that there is no place for it among the clergy, that liberal heretical dissent is wrong and that there is no place for it in the faculty dining rooms or lecture halls of Catholic institutions. Overblown, hypothetical, and casuitical, jargon-laden parsing of Ex corde leads nowhere. Does anyone really need one hundred footnotes to figure out that "Catholic" colleges should be "Catholic" and run by "Catholics" (and not by socialist or homosexual activists)? You don't have to be a canon lawyer or an expert in canonical ecclesiastical Latin legalisms to figure out that Richard McBrien types have jumped off the ship or that Fr. Shanley types should be thrown off.

46 posted on 04/18/2002 5:49:44 AM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: Lady In Blue
Thanks for posting that letter.
47 posted on 04/18/2002 5:56:40 AM PDT by ELS
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To: Evangelium Vitae ; Palladin ; Dr. Brian Kopp ; Catholicguy ; Notwithstanding ; saradippity ; Dumb_Ox
Unfortunately, it seems possible that the meeting in Rome will tend to stay strictly limited to the legal matter of how to deal only with clergy accused of sex abuse in terms of a national policy for reporting that to legal authorities when the problem with homosexuality and corruption is much wider. The mess surrounding Ex corde ecclesiae is related to the current problems because the whole idea that "dissent" from church teachings (including on homosexuality) is an acceptable posture is given support by the organized dissent in higher education. Unfortunately, the Ex corde debate has generally limited discussion to "theology" (as defined canonically) when the problem in higher education is much broader than just that. The liberal effort to apply pressure on the Church to tailor its institutions (at all levels) in conformity with PC trends, as a sort of carbon copy of secular liberalism, is very much a part of this. The bishops really need to uphold Catholic orthodoxy throughout the Church's institutions and not just when clerics molest minors. Had they done that in the past, one wonders whether the current scandals would be nearly as large and disastrous.

A few links tracing this path:

Ex corde ecclesiae editorial: America

Bureaucratic Process for Ex corde ecclesiae by Association of Catholic Colleges & Universities

First Things article on Ex corde

48 posted on 04/18/2002 6:26:44 AM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
The ex corde debate really shows the 'unofficial schism'. We need new leadership here that follows the Magisterial teachings but given how slowly things happen in the church it probably won't happen until my kids have grey hair. The really sad thing to me is the present need for more good Priests and the waffling the current crisis will have in terms of deterring religious vocations. We will need a miracle.
49 posted on 04/18/2002 7:39:45 AM PDT by Domestic Church
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To: Domestic Church
You are probably right that this will all take time. There are actually quite a number of good Catholics active both as priests and as lay educators who are providing a good foundation for the next century. We do need to see bishops addressing certain things more confidently and forcefully. The PC dissenters really need to move along. If they don't want to uphold and support the Catholic faith, there are faithful Catholics who can replace them. The traditional and historic centers of Catholic learning in the U.S. need to be reclaimed by our leaders. Bishops should be actively speaking out against dissent wherever it rears its ugly head. No one has a right to squat on church property and force everyone else to listen to their anti-Catholic, PC whining.
50 posted on 04/18/2002 7:51:32 AM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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