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The Mass of Vatican II
Catholic Dossier ^ | REV. JOSEPH FESSIO S.J.

Posted on 05/01/2002 6:48:29 PM PDT by nickcarraway

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1 posted on 05/01/2002 6:48:29 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: Lady In Blue;BlessedBeGod;american colleen
Ping
2 posted on 05/01/2002 6:49:21 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: nickcarraway
Thanks for the ping and thread.


QUO PRIMUM

3 posted on 05/01/2002 8:12:03 PM PDT by Lady In Blue
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To: nickcarraway
Thanks for posoting this.
4 posted on 05/01/2002 8:25:06 PM PDT by Salvation
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To: Salvation
Aesthetic bump. V's wife.
5 posted on 05/02/2002 4:32:45 AM PDT by ventana
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To: nickcarraway
Father Joseph Fessio bump!

Thank you for a wonderful article.

6 posted on 05/02/2002 4:46:49 AM PDT by american colleen
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To: Oremus
ping
7 posted on 05/05/2002 12:47:35 AM PDT by oremus
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To: oremus
Excellent piece. Isn't it amasing that almost 40 years have passed since the Infallible Vatican II Ecumenical Council and nowhere on Earth can one find a Mass that the Church Fathers desired.

One must remember that a Bishop's Synod voted NOT to accept the Mass of Paul VI the first time they saw it "performed." Now, it is the normative Mass and it is valid. But, it is artificial and did not result from an organic growth.

OK, I admit to being provocative in using the "Infallible" descriptive adjective when it is really tautological as ALL Ecumenical Councils are infallible by their nature.

I can't explain why we don't have the Mass that Vatican II desired. I just know we are living through a period of profound confusion and darkness that shows no signs of a quick and dramatic reform. The Bishops that countenanced the perverts in the seminaries and were complicit in the sex scandals are the very same ones who retain authority to decide the steps taken to correct the abuses. Come on... THe NCCB does not want to relinquish power. Breathes there a Catholic who thinks THEY desire a Mass like Vatican Two desired? Come on...

Benedicamus Domino for orders like FSSP. I think we have to give ALL credit to the Lord for this order. It is ineluctable that they exist only because of the schism of SSPX. And only God can bring good out of evil.

8 posted on 05/05/2002 5:06:17 AM PDT by Catholicguy
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To: nickcarraway; frogandtoad; Domestic Church; BlessedBeGod; saradippity; maryz; Jeff Chandler...
I was amazed. I called Professor William Mart, a Professor of Music at Stanford University and a friend. I said, “Bill, is this true?” He said, “Yes. The Psalm tones have their roots in ancient Jewish hymnody and psalmody.” So, you know something? If you sing the Psalms at Mass with the Gregorian tones, you are as close as you can get to praying with Jesus and Mary. They sang the Psalms in tones that have come down to us today in Gregorian Chant.

I have never seen this post before today. This is a great affirmation of what I have felt more by way of intuition than by learning. Thank you nickcarraway for a very useful and in its own way inspirational post.

9 posted on 05/05/2002 5:25:23 AM PDT by history_matters
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To: Lady In Blue
In regards to Quo Primum, one must keep "Mediator Dei" in mind. Pope Pius XII in The Sacred Liturgy, Mediator Dei, in #49 reminds everyone that "From time immemorial the ecclesastical Hierarchy has exercised this right in matters liturgical." In other words, Pope Saint Pius V can't circumscribe the exercise of the Supreme Power of a future Pope. See also, "On the Power and Nature of the Primacy of the Roman Pontiff" in Vatican I.

A Pope Siricius (384-399 a.d.) can have the Mass offered in Greek changed to his favortie Latin and a Pope Damasus I,who preceeded Siricius could NOT have prevented this from happening. Similarly, Pope Damasus could not have prevented Pope Saint Pius V from issuing Quo Primum.

10 posted on 05/05/2002 5:27:31 AM PDT by Catholicguy
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To: history_matters
"How Christ said the First Mass" is filled with such information. It can be ordered from TAN Books
11 posted on 05/05/2002 5:28:45 AM PDT by Catholicguy
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To: Catholicguy
Is there a web link for TAN books? Are they still based in Illinois?
12 posted on 05/05/2002 5:30:48 AM PDT by history_matters
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To: history_matters
Thank you for the ping...that is something I didn't know, and it's fascinating. We go to a Trappist monastery to hear chant live, one of the monks belongs to a group that has put out several CDs of Chant. When I listen to it, I find it compelling in beauty.
13 posted on 05/05/2002 5:39:32 AM PDT by Judith Anne
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To: history_matters
It certainly is inspirational,Thanks.
14 posted on 05/05/2002 6:12:10 AM PDT by chatham
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To: history_matters
I can give you a reference:

. . . it is only natural to assume that there also existed a musical tradition leading from the Jewish to the earliest Christian chant. This surmise, formerly based only on inductive reasoning, has been scientifically established through the work of Idelsohn [A.Z. Idelson, Thesaurus of Hebrew Oriental Melodies, 10 vols., 1914-32]. . . . The most important result, from our point of view is the fact that there is a striking similarity of style between the ancient Jewish melodies and those of the Gregorian repertory, indicated by such basic traits as absence of regular meter, responsorial and antiphonal performance, prevailingly conjunct motion,psalmodic recitation, syllabic style mixed with melismas, and use of standard formulae.

Appel, Willi. Gregorian Chant. Bloomington: Indiana University Press, Fourth printing 1970.

The author notes that, although chant continued to develop and change, among chants that have survived with little change are psalm tones and the Gloria XV.

I read the book years ago (it would have been more enjoyable if a record or tapes had been included); it was very difficult going for me, as I'm pretty much musically illiterate, but there were a great many interesting things that weren't technical enough to be unintelligible.

15 posted on 05/05/2002 6:39:30 AM PDT by maryz
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To: history_matters
http://www.tanbooks.com

Just got Fr. Shuster's Bible History and Belloc's books on the reformation from them.

As I was reading through Fr. Fessio's words and thinking about how far off the Church in America seems to be, the words from the Gospel of John came to mind...

"I tell you most solemly,
when you were young
you put on your own belt
and walked where you liked;
but when you grown old
you will stretch out your hands
and somebody else will put a belt around you
and take you where you would rather not go."
16 posted on 05/05/2002 6:43:52 AM PDT by Domestic Church
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To: history_matters; catholicguy; Theresa; american colleen; nickcarraway; _ELS; Lady in Blue; maryz...
Not quite on topic, but I am trying to find an english version of the Regina Chaeve (sp?) with following prayer. Can anyone help?
17 posted on 05/05/2002 8:28:21 AM PDT by ventana
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To: ventana
The Regina Coeli in English

Regina Coeli

Queen of heaven, rejoice. Alleluia. 

For He whom thou didst deserve to bear, Alleluia. 

Hath risen as He said, Alleluia. 

Pray for us to God, Alleluia. 

V. Rejoice and be glad, O Virgin Mary, Alleluia. 
R. Because Our Lord is truly risen, Alleluia. 

    Let us pray 

O God, who by the resurrection of Thy Son, Our Lord Jesus Christ, hast vouchsafed to make glad the whole world, great, we beseech Thee, that, through the intercession of the Virgin Mary, His Mother, we may attain the joys of eternal life.    Through the same Christ Our Lord. Amen. 

++++++++++ Regina Coeli (Queen of Heaven)

The opening words of the Eastertide anthem of the Blessed Virgin, the recitation of which is prescribed in the Roman Breviary from Compline of Holy Saturday until None of the Saturday after Pentecost inclusively. In choro, the anthem is to be sung standing. In illustration of the view that the anthem forms a "syntonic strophe", that is, one depending on the accent of the word and not the quantity of the syllable, It goes as follows:

Regina coeli laetere, Alleluia,
Quia quem meruisti portare.
Alleluia,
Resurrexit,
Sicut dixit,
Alleluia.
Ora pro nobis Deum.
Alleluia.
In the first two verses ("Regina" and "Quia") the accent falls on the second, fourth, and seventh syllables (the word quia being counted as a single syllable); in the second two verses ("Resurrexit", "Sicut dixit"), on the first and third syllables. The Alleluia serves as a refrain. Of unknown authorship, the anthem has been traced back to the twelfth century. It was in Franciscan use, after Compline, in the first half of the following century. Together with the other Marian anthems, it was incorporated in the Minorite-Roman Curia Office, which, by the activity of the Franciscans, was soon popularized everywhere, and which, by the order of Nicholas III (1277-80), replaced all the older Office-books in all the churches of Rome. Batiffol ("History of the Roman Breviary", tr., London, 1898, pp. 158-228) admits that "we owe a just debt of gratitude to those who gave us the antiphons of the Blessed Virgin" (p. 225), which he considers "four exquisite compositions, though in a style enfeebled by sentimentality" (p. 218). The anthems are indeed exquisite, although (as may appropriately be noted in the connection) they run through the gamut of medieval literary style, from the classical hexameters of the "Alma Redemptoris Mater" through the richly-rhymed accentual rhythm and regular strophes of the "Ave Regina Coelorum", the irregular syntonic strophe of the "Regina Coeli", down to the sonorous prose rhythms (with rhyming closes) of the Salve Regina. "In the 16th century, the antiphons of our Lady were employed to replace the little office at all the hours" (Baudot, "The Roman Breviary", London, 1909, p. 71). The "Regina Coeli" takes the place of the "Angelus" during the Paschal Time.

The authorship of the "Regina Coeli" being unknown, legend says the St. Gregory the Great (d. 604) heard the first three lines chanted by angels on a certain Easter morning in Rome while he walked barefoot in a great religious procession and that the saint thereupon added the fourth line: "Ora pro nobis Deum. Alleluia." (See also SALVE REGINA for a similar attribution of authorship). The authorship has also been ascribed to Gregory V, but without good reason. The beautiful plainsong melodies (a simple and an ornate form) are variously given in the Ratisbon antiphonary and in the Solesmes "Liber Usualis" of 1908, the ornate form in the latter work, with rhythmical signs added, being very attractive. The official or "typical" melody will be found (p. 126) in the Vatican Antiphonary (1911). Only one form of melody is given. The different syllabic lengths of the lines make the anthem difficult to translate with fidelity into English verse. The anthem has often been treated musically by both polyphonic and modern composers.

18 posted on 05/05/2002 8:40:08 AM PDT by history_matters
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To: history_matters
Thanks!
19 posted on 05/05/2002 8:53:16 AM PDT by ventana
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To: patent
bump.
20 posted on 05/05/2002 9:43:11 AM PDT by patented
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