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What attracts gay men to the Catholic priesthood?
The Boston Globe ^ | May 3, 2002 | Mark D. Jordan

Posted on 05/03/2002 7:54:20 AM PDT by american colleen

Edited on 04/13/2004 2:07:45 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

WHEN AMERICAN cardinals met with the pope last week in Rome, our attention was directed to a policy for dealing with priests who abuse minors sexually.

Should it be a policy of ''zero tolerance''? Should it distinguish between pedophilia strictly speaking and consensual sex with adolescents just under legal age? Would it apply retroactively? The cardinals, apparently unable to agree among themselves, must carry these questions to the meeting of American Catholic bishops scheduled for June.


(Excerpt) Read more at boston.com ...


TOPICS: General Discusssion
KEYWORDS: catholic; catholiclist; homosexuality; scandal
I did a search and didn't find this article, hope it wasn't posted. I thought it was interesting that the article is written by a Catholic homosexual male.

On the whole, I liked the article, but it does not address the question of why almost all of the victims of the non-celibate priests are young teenaged boys.

1 posted on 05/03/2002 7:54:20 AM PDT by american colleen
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To: catholic_list
*ping*
2 posted on 05/03/2002 7:56:40 AM PDT by american colleen
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To: american colleen
Many church officers, here and in the Vatican, want to keep the larger questions out of the discussion, in particular the volatile question of priestly homosexuality.

This is the darkest cloud in our horizon. For the life of me, I can't understand why they are not addressing the homosexual issue.

3 posted on 05/03/2002 8:05:55 AM PDT by ThomasMore
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To: american colleen
It would be a good thing for the bishops to agree on a strict and enforceable national policy.

It would be a good thing for the bishops to follow the policy that is already in place as written in the 1961 Vatican document "Sacred Congregation for Religious and Secular Institutes".

It would be interesting to know if the author is a celibate homosexual.

4 posted on 05/03/2002 8:15:23 AM PDT by SMEDLEYBUTLER
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To: ThomasMore
This is the darkest cloud in our horizon. For the life of me, I can't understand why they are not addressing the homosexual issue.

I'm afraid it is because homosexuality is so pervasive in the hierarchy and priesthood.

5 posted on 05/03/2002 8:20:06 AM PDT by american colleen
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To: SMEDLEYBUTLER
It would be a good thing for the bishops to follow the policy that is already in place as written in the 1961 Vatican document "Sacred Congregation for Religious and Secular Institutes".

It would be interesting to know if the author is a celibate homosexual.

Yes, that would be a good thing and certainly would have spared the Church the current tribulations she is experiencing.

It seems that he might be celibate, otherwise, would he have written the following?

"The call doesn't seem to deny same-sex desires; it seems instead to complete them. A vocation to the celibate, all-male priesthood is a grace. It is also a call to act out your manhood against social expectations, outside heterosexual marriage and in the company of other unmarried men."

Although, I notice that he left out "and in the company of other [celibate] unmarried men" ..... I think one of the curses of Bill Clinton is that we feel that everything written needs to be "read between the lines."

6 posted on 05/03/2002 8:27:31 AM PDT by american colleen
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To: american colleen
On the whole, I liked the article, but it does not address the question of why almost all of the victims of the non-celibate priests are young teenaged boys.

The teenaged boys are victims because they are minors. These non-celibate priests probably had an order of magnitude more adult male sexual partners, many of them fellow priests.

It will be interesting to see if Shanley blows the lid off of the can of worms in an effort to make a deal with the DA.

7 posted on 05/03/2002 8:52:58 AM PDT by sinkspur
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To: sinkspur
I'm thinking the same as you. I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop, and I think that shoe is Shanley.

Remember when the press located him last week? He jumped in a car and left his long-time "companion" (a fellow priest) on the sidewalk to deal with the press. Shanley has already sold his soul to the devil, he has absolutely nothing to lose. I'm probably wrong, but I hope Shanley sings like a canary. Lance the festering wound, so to speak.

8 posted on 05/03/2002 8:57:02 AM PDT by american colleen
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To: american colleen
However puritanical it can sometimes seem, Roman Catholicism is Christianity not ashamed that God took flesh in a body with genitals. For official theology and ancient liturgy, it matters that the body was a male. I emphasize the gender because male and female sexuality are assigned very different values within Catholicism. Women are still sufficiently disenfranchised within the official church to make lesbianism a separate issue when thinking through Catholic homoeroticism.

This is what happens when an intelligent human being is informed more by academic influences and doctrines than by the clear teachings of Scripture. When sin penetrates the intellect, we get essays about "Catholic homoeroticism," as if somehow there is legitimacy to be discovered, if one looks deeply enough. When Truth is discarded, you can find (little "t") "truths" just about wherever your sinful eyes want to take you.

9 posted on 05/03/2002 9:02:22 AM PDT by kezekiel
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To: american colleen; All
What finer a place to be for a homosexual than an organization that demands celibacy? One may continue in private without the questioning of their unnatural lifestyle. My feeling is that many enter the priesthood with a compromised concience, hoping that they can eventually come to understand their predicament and come to terms with it. Some may and good for them but most IMO do not and sooner or later prey upon their victims, themselves ready and willing to subject themselves to the priesthood for help in time of need. Imagine an individual like the fellow on Bill O'reily last night having problems with their own unnatural sexuality coming to a priest who has the same problem for help. This guy became a sex slave for a long time by the priest who he sought help from. Catholics should not be surprised at the publicity of these actions by a world in sin looking to the representatives of God in this age for moral leadership. Religious hypocrisy always makes the crime much worse. This is the fruit of disobedience to the word of God.

1 Timothy 4 1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

Matthew 7 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

10 posted on 05/03/2002 9:04:49 AM PDT by vmatt
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To: american colleen
Male-male desire in Catholicism isn't confined to the priesthood or religious life, though it is certainly most intense there. The desire suffuses Catholic imagination. The sacramental theater of the Mass culminates when God becomes flesh again as the priest consecrates bread and wine. We believe it is the actual body of Jesus, back among us, invoked and guarded by an all-male priesthood.

This paragraph is illustrative how of Lust leads to disordered thinking and a darkened intellect. This is blasphemous; asserting the Mass has ANYTHING to do with male-male desire is beyong repulsive - it is SATANIC.

The Globe did not intend it this way but this is further proof that the poofters MUST be suspended a divinis and sent packing....Good Lord

11 posted on 05/03/2002 9:22:58 AM PDT by Catholicguy
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To: sinkspur
It will be interesting to see if Shanley blows the lid off of the can of worms in an effort to make a deal with the DA.

I think this will happen with one of them. One will feel betrayed by their own and then spill the beans on the rest.

12 posted on 05/03/2002 9:33:20 AM PDT by ThomasMore
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To: Catholicguy
I agree. The article troubled me greatly. The author is "churchy" without being religious. He seems to see the whole point of the priesthood and religious life as the fulfillment of some sort of all-encompassing homosexual fantasy. Does he see any place for straights?

Frankly, he gives me the creeps.

13 posted on 05/03/2002 9:35:33 AM PDT by maryz
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To: vmatt
Paul is warning Timothy about the Gnostics, Marcionites, Encratites, Manicheans and other ancient heretics who absolutely condemned all marriage and the use of all kinds of meat because they believed all flesh was from an evil source. Try posting the following verses from Scripture: Matthew 19:12, 27-29; Luke 18:28-30, 1 Corinthians 7:8, 32-33.

Religious hypocrisy always makes the crime much worse. This is the fruit of disobedience to the word of God.

You might want to tell that to these Protestants, who didn't take vows of celibacy.

14 posted on 05/03/2002 10:09:54 AM PDT by SMEDLEYBUTLER
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To: SMEDLEYBUTLER
You might want to tell that to these Protestants, who didn't take vows of celibacy.

The subject is "Catholic priesthood" particularly gay men. I really don't care what religious flavor evil prefers, or how ancient the words of God are. Sodom was even then an ancient city, yet the inspired authors found it to be a fitting example of these ancient words.

2 Peter 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

Matthew 11:24 But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.

15 posted on 05/03/2002 11:34:01 AM PDT by vmatt
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To: vmatt
Is it fair to say that you object to mandatory clerical celibacy, not celibacy per se?
16 posted on 05/03/2002 12:01:35 PM PDT by eastsider
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To: vmatt
The subject is "Catholic priesthood" particularly gay men.

This is the fruit of disobedience to the word of God.

You contradict yourself and also got caught in the linguistic literalism trap of quoting Scripture out of context. Now how about posting those passages in Scripture where celibacy is praised by both Christ and Paul? That won't happen because you know it blows your argument out of the water.

17 posted on 05/03/2002 12:03:44 PM PDT by SMEDLEYBUTLER
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To: vmatt; all
The subject is "Catholic priesthood" particularly gay men.

And I might add, the article is not written by a member of the clergy, but a member of the homosexual community.

It seems what the author is saying is that the Church is so full of erotica (I take it that means the crucifix, paintings and statues) that the homosexual feels right at home. Kind of an insight into how this guy's mind works. (SEX, SEX, more SEX even in church)

18 posted on 05/03/2002 12:18:26 PM PDT by american colleen
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To: american colleen
Kind of an insight into how this guy's mind works.
Perhaps even more than Professor Jordan intended. The images he uses to illustrate homoeroticism indicate a propensity for excrutiatingly painful sex: "The image-body hovers over churches and homes in graphic crucifixes, in prints of the Sacred Heart, in scourged statues of the Man of Sorrows."
19 posted on 05/03/2002 12:32:19 PM PDT by eastsider
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To: eastsider
Oooowwww, geez, that part went right over my head!

The thing I have never understood about *some* *most* *a lot of* homosexuals is that EVERYTHING about them is in the context of sex. It is how the define themselves, what they are and in this case, how they think. It must be a terrible cross to bear, in all honesty. It is so limiting.

I'd assume I, being a heterosexual female, should have the same erotic feelings this guy has when viewing a crucifix, half naked statue, etc., etc., and until today, the thought never, ever crossed my mind.

20 posted on 05/03/2002 12:49:39 PM PDT by american colleen
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To: american colleen
One can only imagine what goes on during the "Kiss of Peace" at these Masses ...


21 posted on 05/03/2002 1:26:54 PM PDT by eastsider
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To: eastsider
Is it fair to say that you object to mandatory clerical celibacy, not celibacy per se?

Of course.

22 posted on 05/03/2002 1:57:28 PM PDT by vmatt
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To: SMEDLEYBUTLER
Now how about posting those passages in Scripture where celibacy is praised by both Christ and Paul? That won't happen because you know it blows your argument out of the water.

Celibacy is never taught by Christ or Paul as an obligation or requirement and remember Paul also gave a very timely warning regarding this subject Christians would do well to heed, "better to marry than to burn".

23 posted on 05/03/2002 2:05:57 PM PDT by vmatt
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To: american colleen
And I might add, the article is not written by a member of the clergy, but a member of the homosexual community.

. . . who is a professor of religion! Looks like Emory University got a two-fer: they have a homsexual and they can claim they have a "Catholic."

I did a quick Google search on the author -- looks like he's a one-trick pony, taking his turn after that one who claimed in a book a couple of years ago that the medieval church sanctioned same-sex unions, and the numerous claims ("scholarly" and dramatic) that Christ himself was . . . well, I don't even want to finish that sentence in print.

24 posted on 05/04/2002 3:00:24 AM PDT by maryz
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To: american colleen

25 posted on 05/04/2002 8:57:10 AM PDT by ppaul
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To: sinkspur
The teenaged boys are victims because they are minors.

Also because men who are attracted to men have never matured emotionally or psychosexually (which is why they shouldn't be ordained). They never made that transition from identifying with the mother to identifying with the father, therefore they are particularly attracted to those boys who are of an age at which they themselves last felt comfortable and secure. This strong attraction to boys is known in the "gay" community, just scan their publications.

These non-celibate priests probably had an order of magnitude more adult male sexual partners, many of them fellow priests.

Possibly, possibly not.

It will be interesting to see if Shanley blows the lid off of the can of worms in an effort to make a deal with the DA.

If there is a lid to be blown, and there very well could be, I hope he does. Turn the rock over and shine the light on what's been hidden.

26 posted on 05/05/2002 12:40:52 AM PDT by Jeff Chandler
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To: american colleen
Mark Jordan is a well known homosexual activitist. As a scholar I believe his words need to be taken with a grain of salt or perhaps held away at arm's length.
27 posted on 05/05/2002 5:41:36 AM PDT by history_matters
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To: Catholicguy
"This paragraph is illustrative how of Lust leads to disordered thinking and a darkened intellect."

Yep. That was my impression too.

28 posted on 05/06/2002 11:32:56 PM PDT by Theresa
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