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Was Anyone Saved at the Cross? (Limited Atonement)
Alpha and Omega Ministries ^ | James White

Posted on 07/18/2002 8:49:17 PM PDT by A.J.Armitage

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To: drstevej
" Are you looking for an instructor or for leverage for your position?"

What a nice, "compassionate" way to state what the rest of us are thinking. He is not looking for an instructor, and "leverage" is a nice way to describe a wedge.

He perceives that there is a division between you, as an Amyraldian, and we Calvinists. He is hoping to drive that wedge deep into this perceived division. It is called "divide and conquer", but it won't work due to the fact that his perception is wrong in the first place.

However, it is very telling that he would resort to this tactic. (Romans 16:17)

301 posted on 07/23/2002 5:52:11 AM PDT by Jerry_M
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To: xzins; George W. Bush
Is 294 your explanation of "sufficient with no intent?" That's what I'm looking for: a clear exposition thereof.

I gave ya a clear explaination xzins..

I have my own purpose you do not have the right or need to know the why!

302 posted on 07/23/2002 6:15:28 AM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: xzins; drstevej; Jerry_M; Matchett-PI; RnMomof7; Jean Chauvin; George W. Bush; A.J.Armitage

For some, it is the debate that is the issue.

Of course it is. Rather than admit that you Arminians Limit the Atonement just like everyone but the Universalist heretics does demonstrate that the real goal is to oppose Calvinism.

Whereas we Calvinists, including steve, limit the Atonement to the effective application on the elect, you Arminians limit the Atonement by limiting its sufficiency and eliminating its efficatious nature.

The Arminians say, Christ died for all men. Ask them what they mean by it. Did Christ die so as to secure the salvation of all men? They say, "No, certainly not." We ask them the next question—Did Christ die so as to secure the salvation of any man in particular? They answer "No." They are obliged to admit this, if they are consistent. They say, "No; Christ has died that any man may be saved if"—and then follow certain conditions of salvation. We say, then, we will go back to the old statement—Christ did not die so as beyond a doubt to secure the salvation of anybody, did He? You must say "No;" you are obliged to say so, for you believe that even after a man has been pardoned, he may yet fall from grace, and perish. Now, who is it that limits the death of Christ? Why, you. You say that Christ did not die so as to infallibly secure the salvation of anybody. We beg your pardon, when you say we limit Christ's death; we say, "No, my dear sir, it is you that do it." We say Christ so died that He infallibly secured the salvation of a multitude that no man can number, who through Christ's death not only may be saved but are saved, must be saved, and cannot by any possibility run the hazard of being anything but saved. You are welcome to your atonement; you may keep it. We will never renounce ours for the sake of it. ~ Spurgeon on Particular Repemption


303 posted on 07/23/2002 6:59:37 AM PDT by CCWoody
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To: CCWoody
Great Spurgeon quote! It says it all. He truly was the “Prince of Preachers”, proclaiming the “King of Kings”.
304 posted on 07/23/2002 7:03:25 AM PDT by Jerry_M
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To: RnMomof7
I have my own purpose you do not have the right or need to know the why!

???? What does that mean?

305 posted on 07/23/2002 7:12:42 AM PDT by xzins
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To: CCWoody
I'm not in it for the debate.

306 posted on 07/23/2002 7:14:14 AM PDT by xzins
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To: xzins
restate the question
307 posted on 07/23/2002 7:21:44 AM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: rwfromkansas
bump to myself
308 posted on 07/30/2002 8:13:37 PM PDT by rwfromkansas
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