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To: jude24; xzins; winstonchurchill; Revelation 911
What the Calvinists refuse to accept is that while God allows mankind to choose for or against Him, He does not allow man to choose what the consquences of those decisions will be. Actually, what Arminians are either ignorant of or choose to ignore is that man will only choose further rebellion rather than salvation apart from the intervention of the Holy Spirit.

No, Arminians accept the fact that it is God that must send the light

The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might be saved. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world (Jn.1:7-9).

Thus, God has left himself to a witness to unregenerate man both in nature (Psa.19,Rom1) and in the Gospel itself (Jn.12:32)

Satan is very aware of this (even though Calvinists aren't) (2Cor.4:4) because man must reject the Light that God sends.

Thats what 1 Corinthians 2:14 explains that, "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." (and you will observe that, in a concession to you, I am using the AV).

Well at least you are using the right translation, even if you do not understand it!

1Cor.2 is not talking about salvation and the Gospel is not mentioned.

Paul is admonishing the Corinthians for not understanding spiritual things.

Paul is telling them that they have access to God's wisdom as children of God,(vs.16) yet are acting as unbelievers.(chapters 3-5)

Thus, they run to the unbelievers law courts (chapter 6).

CONTEXT,CONTEXT,CONTEXT

This is from a post I made earlier by John Fletcher regarding Wesley's believes on God's role in the revealing the Gospel. http://truthinheart.com/EarlyOberlinCD/CD/Fletcher/1stCk.htm

I must, however, confess, that he does not, as some real Protestants, continually harp upon the words FREE grace, and FREE will; but he gives reasons of considerable weight for this. (1.) Christ and his apostles never did so. (2.) He knows the word grace necessarily implies the freeness of a favor; and the word will, the freedom of our choice: and he has too much sense to delight in perpetual tautology. (3.) He finds, by blessed experience, that when the will is touched by Divine grace, and yields to the touch, it is as free to good, as it was before to evil. He dares not, therefore, make the maintaining free will, any more than free breath, the criterion of an unconverted man. On the contrary, he believes none are converted but those who have a free will to follow Jesus; and, far from being ashamed to be called a "free-willer," he affirms it as essential to all men to be "free-willing creatures," as to be "rational animals;" and he supposes he can as soon find a diamond or a flint without gravity, as a good or bad man without free will.

Nor will I conceal that I never heard him use that favorite expression of some good men, Why me? Why me? though he is not at all against their using it, if they can do it to edification. But as he does not see that any of the saints, either of the Old or New Testament ever used it, he is afraid to be humble and "wise above what is written," lest "voluntary humility" should introduce refined pride before he is aware. Doubting, therefore, whether he could say, Why me? Why me? without the self-pleasing idea of his being preferred to thousands, or without a touch of the secret self applause that tickles the Pharisee's heart, when he "thanks God he is not as other men," he leaves the fashionable exclamation to others, with all the refinements of modern divinity; and chooses to keep to St. Paul's expression, "He loved me," which implies no exclusion of his poor fellow sinners; or to that of the royal psalmist, "Lord, what is man, that thou art mindful of him; and the son of man, that thou visitest him."

5. As a consequence of the doctrine of general redemption, Mr. Wesley lays down two axioms, of which he never loses sight in his preaching. The first is, that ALL OUR SALVATION IS OF GOD IN CHRIST, and therefore OF GRACE; -- all opportunities, invitations, inclination, and power to believe being bestowed upon us of mere grace; -- grace most absolutely free: and so far, I hope, that all who are called Gospel ministers agree with him. But he proceeds farther; for, secondly, he asserts with equal confidence, that according to the Gospel dispensation, ALL OUR DAMNATION IS OF OURSELVES, by our obstinate unbelief and avoidable unfaithfulness; as we may "neglect so great salvation," desire to "be excused" from coming to the feast of the Lamb, "make light of" God's gracious offers, refuse to "occupy," bury our talent, and act the part of the "slothful servant;" or, in other words, "resist, grieve, do despite to," and "quench the Spirit of grace," by our moral agency.

The first of these evangelical axioms he builds upon such scriptures as these: -- "In me is thy help. Look unto me and be saved. No man cometh unto me except the Father draw him. What hast thou that thou hast not received? We are not sufficient to think aright of ourselves, all our sufficiency is of God. Christ is exalted to give repentance. Faith is the gift of God. Without me ye can do nothing," &c, &c.

And the second he founds upon such passages as these: "This is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light. Ye always resist the Holy Ghost. They rejected the counsel of God toward themselves. Grieve not the Spirit. Quench not the Spirit. My Spirit shall not always strive with man. Turn, why will ye die? Kiss the Son, lest ye perish. I gave Jezebel time to repent, and she repented not. The goodness of God leads [not drags,] thee to repentance, who after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up wrath unto thyself. Their eyes have they closed, lest they should see, and be converted, and I should heal them. See that ye refuse not him that speaketh from heaven. I set before you life and death, choose life! Ye will not come unto me that ye might have life. I would have gathered you, and ye would not," &c, &c.

38 posted on 07/20/2002 4:20:33 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration
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To: fortheDeclaration
Satan is very aware of this (even though Calvinists aren't) (2Cor.4:4) because man must reject the Light that God sends.

2 Corinthians 4:4 says absolutely nothing about man rejecting the light.
{read verse 3}

41 posted on 07/20/2002 4:33:05 PM PDT by lockeliberty
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To: fortheDeclaration
It was this simple for me: God sent his son, because He loved me and wanted me to know me.

Because of my sin, I could not get close to Him.

Because of the Crucifixion and Resurrection of Jesus and by my belief...I am saved.
52 posted on 07/20/2002 5:31:50 PM PDT by Dakota gal in Seattle
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