It Came From The Roman Church: Catholic horror stories told by Evangelicals & how to respond

This Rock/ Catholic Answers via Petersnet ^ | David Mills

[RobbyS]

It depends on how theological they are. Some believe that our souls "sleep" until the Resurrection and so are "dead to the world" and all its troubles. Then there is the theory that our souls go straight to God and that we are so busy praising him that we ignore what is happening back on earth. But mostly this is just a flat rejection of Catholic devotion to the Saints, even by people who go to the graveyard and talk to their dead husbands.

[Salvation]

But mostly this is just a flat rejection of Catholic devotion to the Saints, even by people who go to the graveyard and talk to their dead husbands.

I would agree with your statement here, and personally appreciate the anology.

[Aquinasfan]

Good post.

FYI, I've seen an evangelical minister "adopt" Mother Theresa. I can think of worse things.

[Starwind]

This is perhaps the most balanced treatment I've seen on differences between Catholic and Protestant issues.

Sadly, the tares are overgrowing the wheat fields. For many, the thorns and vicissitudes of worldy life are choking out the seed which took root.

We don't seem to have the faith or trust in God's word. All too often we turn to worldly solutions and fail to submit to God's discipline and correction, individually and corporately. I see this in both churches.

I also see in both churches the occasional lighthouse of devout, faithful, obedient pursuit of the Father's will, in service to the Son, in the power of the Holy Spirit.

But both churches use those few lighthouses as evidence of 'life saving' in otherwise lukewarm churches, and instead attack each other for the shipwrecks on the other's shoals.

[Nubbin]

I left the catholic church because after 12 yrs in catholic schools, and 21 years in the church I had no clue what the catholic church actually believed, so it didn't mean alot to me.

I think this is common, or at least it's what I have heard most former catholics claim. I believe it. If you had been properly grounded in the tenets of the faith you wouldn't have left. As far as who is to blame, you or the Church, I'm not going to play the blame game with you. I personally think that Catholic parents are at least partly, and probably mostly to blame in not teaching and handing on the faith to their children.

What I find interesting is that as a convert (former evangelical) I don't place any blame on anyone or anything for my conversion to Catholicism. I only thank God for it.

[Desdemona]

It's not so much the teetotaling, it's that evangelicals claim that Catholics don't read the Bible, yet, most Catholics know the Wedding at Cana was the first miracle. Well, that and the occational martini won't hurt.

I've heard Revelation is not in the Catholic Bible, Catholics don't understand the numbers in the Bible. Not many evangelicals can name all twelve apostles (use the word BAPTISM: B, Bartholomew; A, Andrew; P, (Simon)Peter, Philip; T, Thomas, Jude Thaddeus; I (in Latin J is I), James the Greater, John, James the Lesser, Judas Iscariot; S, Simon; M, Matthew). And then there's speaking in tongues...but that's another story.

I've gotten into a lot of fights with evangelicals. Every February I have to explain Mardi Gras at least once. The concept of the Immaculate Conception. Oh, the list goes on.

[SoothingDave]

I personally think that Catholic parents are at least partly, and probably mostly to blame in not teaching and handing on the faith to their children.

Exactly. It is the parents who have the primary responsibility to raise up the children in the Faith. Your local parish school or CCD is to supplement the instruction the child should be getting at home. Not to suppplant it.

That's why you vow to raise up children in the Faith at your wedding and at each one's Baptism.

SD

[Frumanchu]

Sadly, from a Protestant point of view I have to agree with you and even admit guilt at times for the same. Just as there are many Catholics who poorly represent Catholicism, there are many Protestants who do the same. There are points of doctrine in the RCC which I do not at all agree with, but I would never be so prideful or arrogant as to say that one is not saved because they are Catholic. However, I also would affirm that one is not saved because they are Catholic (I hope you catch the double-meaning there). There are many things about most Protestant denominations that I disagree with just as firmly as some points of Catholic doctrine.

[Catholicguy]

Dad - former LaSalette seminarian.doesn't go to Mass

Mom- goes to Mass

Oldest sister - goes to Mass

Next oldest sister - remarried. never goes to Mass

Me - goes to Mass

Younger sister - remarried. never goes to Mass

Younger brother - remarried. Never went to Mass

Yongest sister - never goes to Mass

Impressive, huh?

[NYer]

The first is an unwillingness to grow up and forgive what seem to be the sort of offenses we have all suffered from parents or teachers or pastors.

The second is an unwillingness to live the Catholic life, leading to a desire to blame the Catholic Church rather than admit this.

Desdemona notes that most of the people who left were baby boomers. That would not surprise me. Baby boomers were raised in an orthodox catholic church. One fasted from midnight (only water) if receiving communion. Sunday's High Mass was long ... very long. Children were expected to attend the 9am mass and sit with their classmates and their teacher (always a nun). The point I am making is that as children, we were exposed to strick discipline. Then Vatican II blew open the doors and windows. It was sudden and dramatic (albeit traumatic). Some catholics could not weather the change.

For example, when catholic school closed its doors for summer break, the nuns were in full habit. When the doors opened in September, only a few "holdouts" still dressed that way. The other sisters doffed the heavy drapes in exchange for lightweight suits and short veils. Eventually, even the veils were abandoned. And this was just the beginning. If you never experienced communion before Vatican II, it must sound like some mythological tale. One knelt at the communion rail and waited for the priest and altar server. The altar server was ALWAYS a boy; he carried a patten to catch the host, lest it fall. The ONLY person who could touch the host was the priest.

Imagine experiencing this as some cast in concrete truism! Within a few weeks, we had Eucharistic Ministers with heavily perfumed fingers, dipping into the chalices and placing the host into our sweaty palms. That change alone was enough to send minions of catholics walking. The clamored long and loud enough to restore the Tridentine mass.

[Desdemona]

You know, Dave, I don't think Catholics my age and younger know enough about the Faith to teach it. Everything has been so dismantled, a lot of people know "Don't eat meat on Fridays during Lent" but not why. Everyone goes to Mass on Ash Wednesday and the number that actually think it's really a Holy Day is astounding. The concept and real reason for Reconciliation (sp?) has been so distorted as to make it unrecognizable.

I'm tell you guys, I'm learning a lot here.

[Salvation]

2 out of 8 if I counted correctly. Keep praying. Miracles do happen. I know of a wife who prayed for her husband to become Catholic for over 20 years. Her prayers were finally answered. Thinking of you Irene.

[Desdemona]

"Children were expected to attend the 9am mass and sit with their classmates and their teacher..."

9 am? Try 8 am... and somebody always threw up. It never failed.

In the family (I'm the oldest in my parents progengy), all but, maybe, three blood relations and two spouses(that I can count) on my mother's side are back. A couple of cousins didn't raise their kids in the Faith, so I don't count them. My dad's side is a mess, don't go there. Now, that doesn't mean that there weren't some who died before returning, but they were two generations ahead of me and followed the socialist line at an impressionable time of life. And the thing that really gets you is that every time there's a funeral they all go to Communion.

But, yeah, most of the people I know who left were boomers and did so over marriage/divorce and other matters of convenience.

[ArrogantBustard]

he carried a patten to catch the host, lest it fall.

And we took considerable pride in our ability to do so, and took the responsibility quite seriously.

[RobbyS]

Well, most Catholics don't read the Bible, although, truth be told, neither do most Evangelicals. At least they don't have the deep knowledge of it that many Protestants did a hundred years ago. But what separates us is their belief that the Bible is the whole of the Christian faith. Never mind that few Christians ever saw a complete Bible until the Middle Ages.

[sitetest]

Dear Catholicguy,

"Impressive, huh?"

I'm sure we all have "geneologies" like that, sadly.

In my own family, my parents, though one might call them "cafeteria" Catholics, are very devout, attend Mass on every Sunday and Holyday, and pray daily.

My own brothers are entirely apostate. My sister tries, but has many things in life that keep her from being much of a Catholic. It's worse with my extended family, who make my parents look quite orthodox.

But though folks may not be completely orthodox, there is hope! This was brought home to me dramatically with my mother. An allegedly devout Catholic, she was "pro-choice" for a good 25 years after Roe v. Wade, which upset me to no end whatsoever. But I prayed for her everyday, and I knew she prayed the Rosary frequently. I knew that even if her heart were slow to change, she couldn't both pray the Rosary everyday and persist in her hard-heartedness.

A few years ago, when my parents came to visit, she was talking idly about upcoming elections and why she was voting for the Republican candidate. It was because he was pro-life! I nearly fell out of my chair! I inquired as to this change of heart. She started to lecture me, "Do you know how many abortions are performed every year? Why, it's almost a million and a half a year!"

* chuckle *

Nothing I'd said to her for a quarter century had so much as left the smallest dent. An off-hand comment by a friend opened her up to the truth of it all.

sitetest

[eastsider]

And we took considerable pride in our ability to do so, and took the responsibility quite seriously.

And let's not forget those occasions when the host fell to the floor, and the priest had to circle the spot with chalk and deconsecrate it after it Mass.

[Desdemona]

"And let's not forget those occasions when the host fell to the floor, and the priest had to circle the spot with chalk and deconsecrate it after it Mass."

No kidding? Really?

[Polycarp]

I left the catholic church because after 12 yrs in catholic schools, and 21 years in the church I had no clue what the catholic church actually believed, so it didn't mean alot to me.

I think this is common, or at least it's what I have heard most former catholics claim. I believe it. If you had been properly grounded in the tenets of the faith you wouldn't have left.

This story closely parallels mine. When I was challenged, I left briefly too. But reading the writings of the Karl Keatings and Scott Hahn's helped. Reading the three volume "Faith of the Early Fathers" clinched it.

Early Christians were completely and unequivocally Catholic in practice and belief. No other modern Christian denomination comes marginally close to the beliefs of the earliest Christians. Period.

[sitetest]

Dear RobbyS,

"Well, most Catholics don't read the Bible,..."

But any devout Catholic hears great gobs of the Bible over time every Sunday at Mass.

And here's the thing. Few Catholics can readily cite what's at Luke 15:11-32? I couldn't tell you without looking.

But I'll bet you a lot of Catholics who go to Mass weekly could readily relate to you the parable of the Prodigal Son.

Because, as we know, until the invention of the printing press, hardly anyone read the Bible. The Word of God was communicated by hearing, not by reading. And that is still the Catholic culture.

sitetest