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WAR IS NOT INEVITABLE[AtThisTime] PRAY IN TONGUES
Meri Burlingame's AP list ^ | 16 SEP 2002 | Chris Strom [of Andrew Strom]

Posted on 09/16/2002 10:45:34 AM PDT by Quix

WAR IS NOT INEVITABLE. PRAY IN TONGUES"
Meri Burlingame
Sep 16, 2002

Chris Strom

From: "Chris Strom" Date sent: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 10:48:45 +1200

"WAR IS NOT INEVITABLE. PRAY IN TONGUES"
- by C. Strom. [-My father. -Andrew.]

I was woken early this morning by the "noise" of my spirit shouting silently in tongues. (Nothing can shout as loud as when silently praying in tongues!) Over this prayer was the clear message in English:

"WAR IS NOT INEVITABLE. PRAY IN TONGUES."

As I continued to pray I felt the following things:

(1) To alert as many people as possible to this message. That it wasn't just for me.

(2) That the battle is spiritual, not physical. That if we Christians win the battle spiritually, the physical battle will not be necessary (2Chron 20).

(3) That the same negative spiritual power that was behind Nebuchadnezzar is behind Saddam Hussein. First we must bind this strong man in the background before his puppet, the strong man in the foreground will equally submit and allow his goods to be spoiled.

(4) In practical terms: we must win the prayer battle before that spiritual power will allow Saddam to submit to the unqualified unrestricted viewing of all sites essential to prevent war.

(5) That tongues is essential. That we cannot possibly pray accurately enough in sufficient detail in English to accomplish this depth of intercession.

(6) To especially draw Christians' attention to 1 Thess 5:17,19:

Pray without ceasing...Quench not the Spirit.

The Holy Spirit will continue to pray in tongues through us (Acts 2:4) so long as we continue to co-operate with Him in this urgent occupation. Don't let other preoccupations quench Him, as can so easily happen.

(7) That fasting acts as an intensifier. Fasting amplifies the prayer. That any form of fasting is better than no fasting at all. Fasting from TV, or partial fasting, for instance. If you can't pray because of work but can fast, remember that "fasting is your whole body praying."

(8) Finally, that things would never have got this bad if only Christians had prayed. Far too many Christians are sidetracked on other good things and are neglecting the essential of prayer. Far too many intercessors are stuck on receiving revelation before praying when we already have the supernatural weapon par excellence of Holy Spirit gifted tongues. Pray without ceasing! Literal Greek: Pray without a pause!

To join or leave the List email prophetic@revival.gen.nz

To Send material email prophetic@revival.gen.nz

WEBSITES: Dreams and Visions Supersite-

DREAMS & VISIONS SUPERSITE LINK

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Andrew Strom, Thunder Ministries, PO Box 12-1022, Henderson, NEW ZEALAND 1008.


TOPICS: General Discusssion
KEYWORDS: intercession; iraq; nebuchadnezzar; prayer; saddamh; spiritualbattle; wwiii
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FINALLY, someone else articulates what I've been feeling for many weeks. I believe this is an important call to prayer. If you find the shoe doesn't fit you, please ignore it. It is a call for those with ears and a heart to hear it.

IF you doubt prayer has much impact on such world wide events, then you may be unaware of the MANY great moves of God based on prayerful intercession throughout the great wars of history. Many of the supernatural aspects of Israel's 6 day war remain not widely published.

1 posted on 09/16/2002 10:45:35 AM PDT by Quix
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To: Quix
I personally am not sure HOW un-inevitable war with Iraq is depending on adequate intercession. I believe there is a fair amount of wiggle room, so to speak. I believe Russian etc. signs are that the limbo could drag out for years--especially if Hussain does his usual shucking and jiving dance with inspectors in-country.

But I DO believe WWIII is delayablel-probably into the 2006 time frame referenced in some of the Bible Codes.

So, I guess I believe there's two nodes or areas of concern, impact that intercession could be brought to bear on--Saddam and that whole ball of wax--and then WWIII and the Chinese/Russians/North Koreans/Cubans and Mexicans as many have seen in dozens and dozens of dreams and visions.

As well, I believe the reason so many terrorist cells etc. have been being busted is that there has been a LOT of focused intercession TO THAT END--FOR MANY MONTHS.

Anyway--my 2 cents worth.
2 posted on 09/16/2002 11:47:38 AM PDT by Quix
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To: 4ConservativeJustices
ping??
3 posted on 09/16/2002 12:18:59 PM PDT by Ff--150
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To: Ff--150
Is someone trying to send a message? ;o)
4 posted on 09/16/2002 12:32:58 PM PDT by 4CJ
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To: w_over_w
a ping for you:o)
5 posted on 09/16/2002 12:42:01 PM PDT by Ff--150
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To: Ff--150
Thanks brother . . . I'm taking my time with this one.
6 posted on 09/16/2002 12:44:33 PM PDT by w_over_w
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian; JenB; Thinkin' Gal; Jerry_M; BibChr; enemy of the people; nightdriver; ...
Any input????
7 posted on 09/16/2002 1:39:27 PM PDT by sola gracia
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To: sola gracia
"Any input???? "

Nope, the cat got my 'tongues'!

Jean

8 posted on 09/16/2002 1:42:18 PM PDT by Jean Chauvin
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To: sola gracia
At this time I don't speak in tongues ( I don't speak in any other foreign languages) but I do pray in the spirit.

I sure think we could use some Christians that can speak in Arabic.
9 posted on 09/16/2002 1:59:41 PM PDT by lockeliberty
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To: Ff--150
THANKS,

Does anyone have a Charismatic/Pentecostal ping list?
10 posted on 09/16/2002 2:07:10 PM PDT by Quix
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To: sola gracia
THANKS.
11 posted on 09/16/2002 2:08:23 PM PDT by Quix
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To: Jean Chauvin
THANKS, CUTE.
12 posted on 09/16/2002 2:09:55 PM PDT by Quix
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To: sola gracia
I am sure the Amil's have all the answers for this problem...Satan is bound and this is the kingdom...so it is all fine...
13 posted on 09/16/2002 2:13:09 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: lockeliberty
SOME MONTHS OR YEARS--I FORGET WHICH . . . after the Holy Spirit goose bumps; tingles had worn well off, I was being hassled by the enemy that it was all made up in my head.

Mercifully, The Lord broke in to the dialogue with the enemy and quietly asked me if I was saved by faith or feelings.

He then asked me if praying in tongues was Biblical. He then encouraged me to pray accordingly in faith and trust Holy Spirit and The Father to respond fittingly. Been doing that ever since. Sometimes I have heavy anointing feelings and sometimes I don't. Sometimes I pray in a "language" not my usual "tongue" but usually I don't. Often a different "language" occurs with heavy anointing--and usually in some situation where someone else is really needing a touch or heavy intervention by God.

I've taken to suggesting to people who are genuinely saved etc. to just start stepping out of the boat in faith and praying in a combination of sounds NOT part of a language they know--that is--a pattern of a combination of sounds--the pattern of which is not part of a language they know. AND, TO TRUST HOLY SPIRIT TO BE TAKING YOUR ACTIVE FAITH IN SUCH A MANNER AND TRANSMITTING THE DEEP INNER MOST NEEDS OF YOUR SPIRIT; OF YOUR DESIRE FOR INTERCESSION--WHATEVER--THAT HOLY SPIRIT WILL THEN TRANSMIT THE MOST FITTING ***MEANING*** TO THE FATHER.

Have been glad to have taken that perspective as it has blessed many, many people--deepened their prayer life and walk with Father enormously . . . . as well, of course, their relationship with Jesus, The Christ.

Besides, I've OFTEN been in desperate situations where I've said all I knew to say in English and the burden was still heavy. If I hadn't known how to pray in tongues, I'd have felt enormously spiritually constipated and helpless. Literally groaning as with a stomach ache only goes so far toward relieving that, for me.

And it's wonderful to see/feel after a season of prayer in tongues that the burden lifts.

I read a man once who claimed that praying in tongues 2 hours every day for 6 months would change one's life forever. I suspect praying at all for 2 hours a day would change one's life forever but I think his point is very apt.
14 posted on 09/16/2002 2:18:29 PM PDT by Quix
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To: sola gracia
No, because this was a personal experience with a private interpretation. I prefer the order laid out in scripture which is designed to edify the Body when they are assembled wherein everyone can hear the message and everyone can hear the interpretation. This, because I test all things against the Word of God.

Having said that, I don't part ways with my charismatic brothers - until they begin to suggest that somehow I am not saved or less of a believer because of our differences on this non-essential.

15 posted on 09/16/2002 2:25:15 PM PDT by anniegetyourgun
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To: anniegetyourgun
Easy to respect.

A Biblical case CAN be made, though, as I'm sure you're aware of--that Paul advocated praying in tongues as well as wishing that all Christians were acquainted productively with using tongues.

Anyway--PLEASE Pray however God leads you as long as you pray!
16 posted on 09/16/2002 2:36:36 PM PDT by Quix
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To: Quix; sola gracia
"WAR IS NOT INEVITABLE. PRAY IN TONGUES."

I'll quote the inimitable Christian lyricist Steve Taylor:

If the Bible doesn't back it, then it seems quite clear--
Perhaps it was the Devil who whispered in your ear!
First of all, the Acts 2:4 passage you quote is out of context. It in no way implies that the Holy Spirit "will continue to pray in tongues through us." It was referring to a specific incident when God's Holy Spirit descended upon His people. By the way, the "tongues" spoken of in Acts were actual languages of the time. If you read on, you find that while the disciples were speaking, the Holy Spirit acted as a translator and all present heard the words of the disciples in his own language. This, of course, was all part of the supernatural event of Pentecost. "Tongues" is never referred to in Scripture as some secret, special language that is only known to the one uttering the words. While speaking in tongues was addressed in the New Testament, Paul tells us, "He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself" (1 Cor. 14:4). He goes on to say in the following verses that the church receives edification only when the tongue the speaker is using is interpreted.

Secondly, regardless of how or why we pray, we do not have the power to change God's will. For example, someone earnestly praying for the healing of a loved one suffering from cancer does not in and of itself ensure that recovery is inevitable. I have known people who actually believe that if you pray for healing and it wasn't granted, you didn't pray hard enough, long enough, or faithfully enough. That is a dangerous position to take. We should never operate under the assumption that our prayers can somehow magically alter God's plan for us. It is true that prayer is a powerful weapon in the arsenal of the believer, but prayer should always be in accordance with His will. Prayer is a form of communion with our Heavenly Father and it is through prayer and study of His word that we are able to become aligned with His will for our lives.

17 posted on 09/16/2002 2:45:51 PM PDT by sheltonmac
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To: Quix
TRANSMITTING THE DEEP INNER MOST NEEDS OF YOUR SPIRIT; OF YOUR DESIRE FOR INTERCESSION--WHATEVER--THAT HOLY SPIRIT WILL THEN TRANSMIT THE MOST FITTING ***MEANING*** TO THE FATHER

Do you think that the Holy Spirit can transmit the needs of a believer to the Father without the believer engaging in the act of speaking in incomprehensible sounds?

Paul gives some very strong warnings about speaking in the "tongues" you describe, what is your interpretation of those warnings?

18 posted on 09/16/2002 2:48:49 PM PDT by lockeliberty
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To: sola gracia
Yeah, well, been there, did that, read 1 Corinthians 13:8-10, believed it and 2 Timothy 3:15-18, don't do that anymore.

That's what I've got. (c8

Dan

Straight Talk on Tongues


19 posted on 09/16/2002 2:59:00 PM PDT by BibChr
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To: sola gracia; RnMomof7
Well, assuming for the moment that we actually don't want a war on Saddam, if we just pretended to pray in tongues to avert the war, how would anyone know we were faking it?
20 posted on 09/16/2002 2:59:35 PM PDT by George W. Bush
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To: BibChr; RnMomof7; xzins; P-Marlowe; Wrigley
Was once told that if you pray in tongues the Devil can understand what you are praying. Heavenly encryption?
21 posted on 09/16/2002 3:22:21 PM PDT by drstevej
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To: sheltonmac
Sigh.

A very close friend has had a long habit of going to various Native American tribes and ministering to them.

In one short month's time once--she had visited 3 different tribes. During the closing prayer at each one, she'd prayed quietly--barely audibly--in tongues.

EACH TIME, an old man or old woman who had been standing next to her in the circle would ask her where she had learned the old, formal, eloquent version of their language. She had no idea she'd been speaking their language. They then told her in EACH case that she had presented a wonderful poetic version of The Gospel story.

I realize your construction on reality may not allow for the TRUTH of this to sink in. But at least the possiblity exists that Holy Spirit might be ever ready to broaden your spiritual and Scriptural understanding. Of course, you have some control over His success with you on that score, or not.
22 posted on 09/16/2002 3:23:33 PM PDT by Quix
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To: sheltonmac
I QUITE AGREE WITH YOU that prayers do not turn God into a vending machine at our whim or direction.

HOWEVER, That GOD CHOOSES to allow Himself to be influenced by our prayers is one of the great mysteries of Love of the ages. Thankfully, His wisdom decrees often enough that His best answer to our prayers is NO! Otherwise, we'd be in worse trouble.

Thanks for your post.
23 posted on 09/16/2002 3:26:11 PM PDT by Quix
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To: Quix
***EACH TIME, an old man or old woman who had been standing next to her in the circle would ask her where she had learned the old, formal, eloquent version of their language. ***

Assuming this account is true (and I don't dispute it) this sounds more like the biblical gift than much of the ecstatic speech around today.
24 posted on 09/16/2002 3:27:33 PM PDT by drstevej
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To: drstevej
Correction:

Was once told that if you pray in tongues the Devil CAN'T understand what you are praying.
25 posted on 09/16/2002 3:28:41 PM PDT by drstevej
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To: lockeliberty
Do you think that the Holy Spirit can transmit the needs of a believer to the Father without the believer engaging in the act of speaking in incomprehensible sounds?

I suspect Holy Spirit CAN do whatever He and The GodHead decide needs doing. THAT GOD THE FATHER AND THE SON WITH HOLY SPIRIT HAVE DECREED in The Word that such a means will be one of the powerful gifts to the New Testament Church for her proper functioning throughout the "church age" is a Grace and honor that I guess you'll have to ask them about. I personally believe it is one of Father's 'jokes' on us that in order to be more powerful, potent in our prayers and our walk in The Spirit--we have to humble ourselves to speaking ostensibly gibberish. It has marvelous results for those willing to so humble themselves and persist in faith accordingly as led by Holy Spirit. Paul gives some very strong warnings about speaking in the "tongues" you describe, what is your interpretation of those warnings? I disagree that Paul gave any such warning about any such use of tongues. On the contrary, he asserts that he would that all spoke in tongues. . . and quench not The Spirit. . . that all seek to be able to speak and to interpret. Certainly public meetings must be ran in an orderly fashion and he gave instructions for that.

26 posted on 09/16/2002 3:31:15 PM PDT by Quix
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To: BibChr
Your assertion via I Cor 13:8-10 that tongues was to be temporary is illogical on the face of it.

If KNOWLEDGE HAD PASSED AWAY as would have to have happened for tongues to have also passed away--You'd not be able to assert much of anything about much of anything.

Where is the perfect knowledge that has come?

Joel asserts that propehcies etc. were for our entire era. Why do you find it so ?reflexively? necessary to disagree with him?
27 posted on 09/16/2002 3:35:47 PM PDT by Quix
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To: George W. Bush
Am I given to understand that you realllllly question the capacity of Almighty God to tell the difference between white-wash and the authentic; between heart and surface stuff?

I wonder how many times the Scriptures talk about God looking on the heart.

Authentic tongues is an issue of the heart--not the tongue--nor the ears.
28 posted on 09/16/2002 3:38:45 PM PDT by Quix
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To: drstevej
I THINK you meant the devil caN'T tell what we're praying. Heavenly encryption, indeed.

I hope that's true. Sounds nice.

But a lot of people are experts at watching others and guessing well what they are thinking. I suspect satan is at least as good as that at such.

But it's a nice thought that he can't read our minds nor understand prayers in tongues. I've counted on that a lot. I pray in tongues silently more than I do out loud. Can I call that a double level of security?
29 posted on 09/16/2002 3:40:41 PM PDT by Quix
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To: BibChr
I find your link labeled STRAIGHT TALK on TONGUES ANYTHING BUT straight talk.

I find it largely straight, overwhelmingly blind bias. I don't even find it very Scriptural.
30 posted on 09/16/2002 3:42:13 PM PDT by Quix
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To: drstevej
I still prefer to consider the FRUIT as the Bible instructs us to do.

The authentic has persistently in my life experience and in countless other's lives and relationshiops--brought RESURRECTION LIFE; HEALING; A MUCH CLOSER WALK WITH GOD; HOLY SPIRIT COMFORT IN GREAT TRAUMA; DIRECTION IN THE MIDST OF CONFUSION ETC. ETC. ETC.

I can't imagine satan producing such a long, long, long list of very edifying, very Scriptural, God-relationship-enhancing fruit.
31 posted on 09/16/2002 3:44:10 PM PDT by Quix
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To: Quix; OrthodoxPresbyterian; Jean Chauvin; RnMomof7; CCWoody; xzins; Wrigley
***I pray in tongues silently more than I do out loud. Can I call that a double level of security?***

No need, our amillennial folks say Satan is bound already.

32 posted on 09/16/2002 3:45:26 PM PDT by drstevej
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To: Quix
I had that same unconsidered, kneejerk response when I was a charismatic.

But think again: what is "knowledge"? Is it really an improvement to say that "the perfect" is Jesus, or Heaven, or the Second Coming? As you are (mis)taking "knowledge," will knowledge pass away at the return of Christ, or in Heaven? I daresay knowledge will increase beyond our wildest imagination.

Try again. Look at the context, near and far. It will lead you in a different direction than that you've found comfortable in the past.

Dan

33 posted on 09/16/2002 3:45:26 PM PDT by BibChr
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To: Quix
Perhaps if you read it...? Looked up the verses...?

Glad to be the one to challenge your unBiblical, unconsidered areas of ignorance.

Dan

34 posted on 09/16/2002 3:46:58 PM PDT by BibChr
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To: Quix
I applaud the effect [RESURRECTION LIFE; HEALING; A MUCH CLOSER WALK WITH GOD; HOLY SPIRIT COMFORT IN GREAT TRAUMA; DIRECTION IN THE MIDST OF CONFUSION] even if I question the cause. I observe these same effects in yielded non-charismatic believers.
35 posted on 09/16/2002 3:49:02 PM PDT by drstevej
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To: BibChr
Have been back and forth over such an issue adnauseam. . . perhaps as much as you or more.

I've usually found that hostility to tongues etc. has more to do with psychology than theology.

And, as has been said, the person with an experience is rarely if ever at the mercy of one with merely an argument. I don't know what your experiences were like in charismania. There's certainly a lot of silliness that goes under that title. But the authentic is not something I'd trade for.

I know in who I've believed . . . and what HE has taught me and led me into and through is . . . not for sale . . . I'd be brain dead to believe anything less. . . my many experiences have been much toooooo convincing many, many dozens of times over.

Thanks for caring or bothering enough to respond etc.
36 posted on 09/16/2002 3:51:06 PM PDT by Quix
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To: BibChr
Just did yet again before posting my response to it. It's also a chapter I've virtually memorized at God's encouragement.

This is not exactly an area of ignorance on my part. Agreement or not with you is NOT my definition of ignorance.

Thankfully, I have long felt what some have started to say publically--Cessationism is going to cease AT GOD'S DOING.

When He escalates the demonstration of the supernatural as He is definitely scheduled to do--all kinds of petty arguments will fall lifeless in the dust. Stay tuned.
37 posted on 09/16/2002 3:54:21 PM PDT by Quix
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To: BibChr
BTW, I don't believe you have sufficient perspective, nor insight, nor discernment to be able to accurately assert what I have CONSIDERED and what I haven't CONSIDERED.

Your what--?arrogance?--might assert that you can accurately read my inner most thought processes and thereby with great overwhelming perfect knowledge assert what I have or have not considered. However, I don't buy it.

I suppose you can claim that I APPEAR or not to have considered something. But that's not what you said.
38 posted on 09/16/2002 3:57:04 PM PDT by Quix
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To: George W. Bush
LOL
39 posted on 09/16/2002 3:58:01 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: drstevej
I don't think someone has to fit comfortably under the label Charismatic to hear God or demonstrate a lot of fruits of The Spirit. God uses whom He will. And He takes all yielded, surrendered folk as far as they will go with Him. If they have blind spots, He either enlightens them IF it's a priority of HIS or He ignores such blind spots and concentrates on other more fruitful areas in that life. IMHO.

I have usually found, though, that in AT LEAST 70+% of the time, pride is what's in the way of at least praying in tongues, not theology.
40 posted on 09/16/2002 3:59:30 PM PDT by Quix
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To: Quix
I am overjoyed with the gifts the LORD has seen fit to grant me, thank you. I attempt to use them always in the service of Jesus Christ, to the glory of God the Father.
41 posted on 09/16/2002 4:00:26 PM PDT by anniegetyourgun
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To: Quix
You have a pride meter?
42 posted on 09/16/2002 4:01:18 PM PDT by drstevej
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To: anniegetyourgun
CHEERS TO THAT. . . TO YOU. PLEASE KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK! We need all the help we can get!
43 posted on 09/16/2002 4:03:30 PM PDT by Quix
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To: BibChr
Hmmm, Dan....I didn't realize you came out of that tradition/style. Would you be willing to answer me some questions about your transition?
44 posted on 09/16/2002 4:07:01 PM PDT by anniegetyourgun
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To: Quix
I read the article.

I noticed there is a lot of emphasis on "What WE can do", and not enough on God's divine sovereignty.

Events will play out exactly as they are written in God's eternal plan, whether we "pray in tongues" or not.

As Christians our hope should not be in changing this present evil world, our hope should rest in the world to come. We should be looking to Jesus Christ and praying "Thy will, not ours be done!"




45 posted on 09/16/2002 4:17:44 PM PDT by zadok
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To: drstevej
"Assuming this account is true (and I don't dispute it) this sounds more like the biblical gift than much of the ecstatic speech around today."

I agree. The gift of tongues as illustrated in Acts chapter 2 is not babble, but rather a language that each hearer hears in his own language and dialect.
46 posted on 09/16/2002 4:23:18 PM PDT by zadok
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To: anniegetyourgun
:>) agree
47 posted on 09/16/2002 4:25:42 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: Quix
"my many experiences have been much toooooo convincing many, many dozens of times over. "

As Christians, we should strive to align our beliefs with what is substantiated in God's word, rather than rely on feelings and experience.

48 posted on 09/16/2002 4:28:18 PM PDT by zadok
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To: Quix; drstevej
And, as has been said, the person with an experience is rarely if ever at the mercy of one with merely an argument

That's what Mormons say, though at least you qualify it a bit more. Did you know that too?

The Biblical Christian has a very different position.

Dan
What Is Biblical Christianity?

49 posted on 09/16/2002 4:29:11 PM PDT by BibChr
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To: sheltonmac
regardless of how or why we pray, we do not have the power to change God's will.

Agreed Shelt...Our prayers bend our will to His..prepare us to be a tool in His hand......But the God who knows everything knows the end of every situation in advance

50 posted on 09/16/2002 4:29:12 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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