Soul of a Clone (Vanity)

self | 12/31/02 | Self

[cincinnati65]

As the possibility of creating a human clone appears to be closing on reality, there are a number of questions that come to mind, particularly when reconciling with my Christian beliefs. For instance, if a human clone is created, will a soul inhabit the body? If so, what soul? If a clone is created that is a living, breathing duplicate of a human, what does this say about my belief that it is God that provides the immortal soul within humans?

[cincinnati65]

I know this is open-ended, but I'm curious to see what others think about the subject.

[Ramius]

How could a clone be non-human? Of course it is.

[Ramius]

Hmmm... that didn't read right. Of course it is human, is what I meant.

[Ramius]

It isn't a duplicate of a person. It is another person, made from the same plan, but a separate new individual.

[cincinnati65]

Okay, you create a clone. You get a human being, true. But, the question is, is it a soul-less automaton made of flesh and bone, capable of "living", or would it have a separate soul?

[Bob]

Not being particularly religeous, I'm not sure that I see the conflict that you seem to.

In my view, identical twins (the naturally-occurring cloning of one child from its sibling) each have their own unique souls. I don't see why a person's body having been artificially cloned would preclude him from having a soul anymore than being a twin would.

[rogue yam]

A clone is, if perfectly rendered, an identical twin with a different birthday. Nothing more. Everyone who has ever met identical twins knows that they are two different people with each possessing just what God intends for us all to possess.

The problems with cloning, so far as I can discern them are:

1). Playing God instead of worshiping Him. This problem is insurmountable and renders moot the others.

2). Imperfect clones who then suffer from their imperfections.

3). Clones subsequently being afforded fewer rights than all men are endowed by their creator (i.e. God).

I say it's a clear no-go.

[cincinnati65]

The key here in your comment is "naturally-occurring" - as in (according to my beliefs) "God-intended". Now, we have "artificially-occurring" cloning, with man stepping into the role of God. The question is: Who supplies the soul?

[cincinnati65]

WOW! Your point '3' opens a whole can of worms, doesn't it? "Endowed by their Creator" -- does that mean these scientists can determine what rights a clone does or does not possess?

[Ramius]

Man is not stepping into the role of God. Man does not create life, he merely arranges the place and the hour where it begins. The process still belongs to God.

That being said... we have no business doing it. It is vanity on our part and nothing more. People only want to do it to prove that they can. There is no purpose to it, and no need for it. It's not like we *need* more people around here... that's for sure.

[restornu]

It is possible a clone body is very questionable! Each of us have a body that is sanction by God!

Who does not have a body is demons? So no one has knowledge which spirit resides in this clone!

In my faith we say Lucifer did not keep his 1st estate, therefore was not entitled to the second estate which is a body! So these evil spirits were homeless!

Who really knows who will be inhabiting these bodies!

[Technogeeb]

Now, we have "artificially-occurring" cloning, with man stepping into the role of God. The question is: Who supplies the soul?

One school of thought asserts that the soul is formed at the point of conception. While the technique may change in the future, I believe that the current cloning process uses an egg that has been previously fertilized (and thus has a soul) after which the genetic material is removed and replaced with that from the clone DNA donor (being a "true" clone only if the clone DNA donor is also the egg donor, since otherwise there will be differences in mitochondrial DNA).

It would seem reasonable to assume that the clone retains the previously existing soul, since all that has happened is a "DNA transplant" (and in the same way that a person who gets a kidney transplant and a heart transplant and a lung transplant and as many other organs as can be named doesn't lose any of his soul, neither would the new child, regardless of the extent of the "transplant").

Of course, using this logic the "clone" is the victim of medical malpractice, in the same way someone who was the recipient of an unnecessary organ transplant would be, unless the DNA transfer was absolutely necessary to prevent or correct some otherwise inevitable genetic disease.

[rogue yam]

Don't ask dumb questions. Particularly not when they have
already been answered by the post to which you are replying.

[restornu]

Don't ask dumb questions

I was taught their are no dumb questions! It is how we learn!

Your a little harsh aren't you?

[rogue yam]

I don't think I'm overly harsh for an adult forum.

That there are no dumb questions is an appropriate model for children. Such an approach is not workable elsewhere. Everyone's time is valuable. It is each of our responsibility to pay attention and think for ourselves and not waste each other's time.

At least that's what I learned in engineering college.

[Salvation]

Raelians, Catholics and the Clone Age

Toward the end of this article the writer addresses the body and soul issue. Sources mentioned also.

[Chancellor Palpatine]

Welcome to the fruit loop convention. Yee-hah!

[restornu]

Everyone's time is valuable. It is each of our responsibility to pay attention and think for ourselves and not waste each other's time.

TRUE!

But we do have the choice if we think a question is foolish or a thread is not interesting to pass on by!

May you have A Healthy and Happy New Years!

[LiteKeeper]

I believe there is a very simple way to express this:
- It is God alone who gives life.
- God has NEVER been surprised by a life that appears.
- If this so-called cloning process results in a new life, it is because He allowed it, for whatever reason.
I don't believe God condones cloning, but only God can give "life." That said, it would seem that it obviates the question of the soul...yes, this new baby has a soul.

[LiteKeeper]

I believe there is a very simple way to express this:
- It is God alone who gives life.
- God has NEVER been surprised by a life that appears.
- If this so-called cloning process results in a new life, it is because He allowed it, for whatever reason.
I don't believe God condones cloning, but only God can give "life." That said, it would seem that it obviates the question of the soul...yes, this new baby has a soul.