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Joseph Smith's Consent Needed to Enter Heaven (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, p.282-91)
http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/sermons_talks_interviews/jofdvol7p282_291smithholdskeystoheaven.htm ^ | 1/22/03 | Brigham Young

Posted on 01/22/2003 3:16:06 PM PST by RnMomof7

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To: CCWoody; the_doc; Jerry_M
...A bit late .. but I guess it is "high church" huh? (ya didn't know RBC were "high church " I bet:>)
801 posted on 02/03/2003 2:30:39 PM PST by RnMomof7 (God Bless America)
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To: xzins; ksen; maestro
I think the case can be made Biblically that the Churches represent not only 'types' of churches in every age, but a real historical progress finishing in the apostasy of our age, the Laodican church (lukewarm church)

I have no problem with a Premillennialist rejecting that view since it is not a crucial one.

Here is how Scofield explains it.

churches

The messages to the seven churches have a fourfold application:

(1) Local, to the churches actually addressed;

(2) admonitory, to all churches in all time as tests by which they may discern their true spiritual state in the sight of God;

(3) personal, in the exhortations to him "that hath an ear," and in the promise "to him that overcometh";

(4) prophetic, as disclosing seven phases of the spiritual history of the church from, say, A.D. 96 to the end. It is incredible that in a prophecy covering the church period, there should be no such foreview. These messages must contain that foreview if it is in the book at all, for the church does not appear after Revelation 3:22. Again, these messages by their very terms go beyond the local assemblies mentioned.

Most conclusively of all, these messages do present an exact foreview of the spiritual history of the church, and in this precise order.

Ephesus gives the general state at the date of the writing;

Smyrna, the period of the great persecutions;

Pergamos, the church settled down in the world, "where Satan's throne is," after the conversion of Constantine, say A.D. 316.

Thyatira is the Papacy, developed out of the Pergamos state: Balaamism (worldliness) and Nicolaitanism (priestly assumption) having conquered. As Jezebel brought idolatry into Israel, so Romanism weds Christian doctrine to pagan ceremonies.

Sardis is the Protestant Reformation, whose works were not "fulfilled."

Philadelphia is whatever bears clear testimony to the Word and the Name in the time of self-satisfied profession represented by Laodicea.

802 posted on 02/03/2003 2:58:38 PM PST by fortheDeclaration
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To: fortheDeclaration
I agree that it is not a crucial view.

The historical analysis is simply suspect. It is too certainly a "forced" reading of history to have it fit the presupposition.

However, as types I simply don't see the church today being Laodicea. I see those that are like any of those "typical" churches. Just my opinion, of course.

803 posted on 02/03/2003 4:27:08 PM PST by xzins (Babylon - You have been weighed in the balance and been found wanting.)
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To: fortheDeclaration
Amen!.....................Your# 802,......................BTTT

Here is how Scofield explains it.

churches

The messages to the seven churches have a fourfold application:

(1) Local, to the churches actually addressed;

(2) admonitory, to all churches in all time as tests by which they may discern their true spiritual state in the sight of God;

(3) personal, in the exhortations to him "that hath an ear," and in the promise "to him that overcometh";

(4) prophetic, as disclosing seven phases of the spiritual history of the church from, say, A.D. 96 to the end. It is incredible that in a prophecy covering the church period, there should be no such foreview. These messages must contain that foreview if it is in the book at all, for the church does not appear after Revelation 3:22. Again, these messages by their very terms go beyond the local assemblies mentioned.

Most conclusively of all, these messages do present an exact foreview of the spiritual history of the church, and in this precise order.

Ephesus gives the general state at the date of the writing;

Smyrna, the period of the great persecutions;

Pergamos, the church settled down in the world, "where Satan's throne is," after the conversion of Constantine, say A.D. 316.

Thyatira is the Papacy, developed out of the Pergamos state: Balaamism (worldliness) and Nicolaitanism (priestly assumption) having conquered. As Jezebel brought idolatry into Israel, so Romanism weds Christian doctrine to pagan ceremonies.

Sardis is the Protestant Reformation, whose works were not "fulfilled."

Philadelphia is whatever bears clear testimony to the Word and the Name in the time of self-satisfied profession represented by Laodicea.

804 posted on 02/04/2003 4:53:22 AM PST by maestro
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To: RnMomof7; White Mountain; CubicleGuy; Utah Girl; rising tide; Grig; Rad_J; Illbay; pseudogratix; ...
FYI not to start this again just a little update that might make sence to some!

Can People Go To Heaven Without Joseph Smith's Consent? Question: How can Latter-day Saints claim to worship Jesus Christ when their leaders teach that no one will get to heaven without the consent or passport of Joseph Smith (Journal of Discourses, Vol 7, p.289, 1869)?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Many traditional Christians envision Peter standing at the "pearly gates." They are uncomfortable with the misunderstanding that Brigham Young said Joseph Smith will take Peter's place. The thoughtful reader, however, will search the entire discourse delivered by Brigham Young and see that this is not what he was teaching.

Each dispensation has a prophet at its head. Moses taught in his dispensation that those who looked to the serpent on a pole would live. This was a type (Alma 33:19) or similitude of the Savior. Those who didn't obey Moses and would not look, didn't live. Accepting what Moses said in that dispensation was the "passport" to life.

As Christ said:
Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words? (John 5:45-47)

If they didn't believe in Moses, he wasn't their "passport."

Noah offered "salvation" to those who would join him in the ark. Those who were disobedient and failed to enter the ark were swept off the earth in the flood and ended up in spirit prison (1 Peter 3:20). Again, as the prophet of his dispensation, Noah provided the "passport" for those who accepted the word of God that came through him.

In the meridian of time, those who accepted the apostles and prophets and did not reject the message of Jesus Christ were saved. As the Lord said to the apostles, "He that receiveth you receiveth me" (Matt. 10:40).

While speaking about our own dispensation, Brigham Young said that people of this dispensation will not enter God's Kingdom without the "consent" and "certificate" of Joseph Smith as a passport to entering where God and Christ are. Brigham Young then explained what he meant: "It is his [Joseph's] mission to see that all the children of men in this last dispensation are saved, that can be, through the redemption" (Journal of Discourses, vol.7, p.289).

The "passport," then, that people will need to enter heaven is the same as they have always needed, no matter what dispensation they lived in. To accept Christ is to accept his prophets: without the priesthood authority and inspired teachings of the Lord that have come through Joseph Smith, no one in this dispensation, living or dead, can be redeemed.

Anti-Mormon critics distort this view, trying to make it appear that Joseph Smith will be standing by the gate of heaven admitting or rejecting those who seek to enter. This is not the picture that is painted by Brigham Young. He was merely stating that the mission of Joseph Smith, God's prophet, was "to see that all the children of men in the last dispensation are saved, that can be through the redemption."

It should be recognized that the Savior is a great delegator. He has delegated to the "head" of each dispensation certain responsibilities, including some preliminary judging responsibilities. For example, in New Testament times the Apostles were told that they will judge the twelve tribes of Israel (Matt 19:28). Literally, then, those of the Twelve Tribes won't "get to Heaven" without the consent of the Apostles.

Latter-day Saints do not believe Joseph Smith is the keeper of the gate of heaven, nor the one who determines whether we are saved. Some Christians think they will instead meet Peter at the "pearly gates," but The Book of Mormon teaches who will really be the final "gatekeeper":

O then, my beloved brethren, come unto the Lord, the Holy One. Remember that his paths are righteous. Behold, the way for man is narrow, but it lieth in a straight course before him, and the keeper of the gate is the Holy One of Israel; and he employeth no servant there; and there is none other way save it be by the gate; for he cannot be deceived, for the Lord God is his name (2 Nephi 9:41).

805 posted on 02/14/2003 4:26:43 PM PST by restornu
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To: anniegetyourgun
Couldn't have said it better myself
806 posted on 05/28/2003 1:27:47 PM PDT by jen79
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