The Institutes Book 1, Chapter 1

The Institutes of the Christian Religion ^ | 1500's | John Calvin

[ksen]

..the author says men have Mercy confused with Justice..

We like Mercy, we don't like Justice.......unless of course it is Justice meted out on someone else.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Fallen man not only does not seek God, he flees from Him. He's not semi-fallen or quasi-fallen; he's toast.

Through God's gracious gift of regeneration we are born again, desiring only to "glorify God and enjoy Him forever."

At the center of that gift is Christ's sacrifice on the cross, wherein He suffered in our place, and washed our sins away forever.

[ksen]

You can always read Hunt later to see if your impression was the same as his.

Don't worry Mom, I'll make sure to read Hunt with a big grain of salt. ;^)

[ksen]

If Man is actively fleeing from God than how do you explain the universal need of Man to connect with God (or a god if you prefer). The other religions are false, but they are still Man attempting to encounter the Divine.

[Calvinist_Dark_Lord]

Hunt's book is required reading for my next class, as well as Ryrie's So Great Salvation, Showers' There Really is a Difference, and Thiessen's Lectures on Systematic Theology.

You may wish to read James White's book as well...can't remember the name at the present, mental block, either The Potter's Field or The Potter's Freedom...i think the second one is what i meant, since it deals with God as the Potter. It is a rebuttal to both Dave Hunt and Norman Geisler.

[Jean Chauvin]

Shhhhh! I might have to give some of those back as well.

Jean

[ksen]

You may wish to read James White's book as well...can't remember the name at the present, mental block, either The Potter's Field or The Potter's Freedom...

Thanks for the tip.

BTW, I like your tagline. Kenneth Branagh's adaptation is one of my favorites.

[ksen]

Where are you today?

[Calvinist_Dark_Lord]

btw, Hunt has admitted (proudly) that he has never read Calvin or any of the Reformers.

[xzins]

out debating with the anti-methodists

what about you?

Is John Calvin holding his own?

[ksen]

btw, Hunt has admitted (proudly) that he has never read Calvin or any of the Reformers.

That's too bad, but how many people actually read the reformers vs. reading ABOUT the reformers.

That's one reason I thought posting The Institutes in their entirety would be beneficial for all of us.

[ksen]

Is John Calvin holding his own?

I don't see anything objectionable in Book 1, Chapter 1. I was hoping more non-Calvinists would get involved, read what Calvin actually wrote, and then we could discuss Calvin's actual words.......in context even.

[xzins]

I've already decided he isn't a heretic.

I think he and arminius were trying to untangle an untangleable knot.

But I will read it. It won't be soon. Keep pinging me.

[ksen]

Keep pinging me.

You got it.

[fortheDeclaration]

don't see anything objectionable in Book 1, Chapter 1. I was hoping more non-Calvinists would get involved, read what Calvin actually wrote, and then we could discuss Calvin's actual words.......in context even.

Most of what Calvin wrote in his Institutes is not objectionable.

It is when you get to Book 3 chapter 21 that you get to the heart of his system, Sovereign Election 'Of the Eternal Election,by Which God has Predestinated Some to Salvation, and Others to Destruction' to see the real heresies in Calvinism.

http://pw1.netcom.com/~rogh/

This site has a very good article on the two systems titled 'Calvin and Arminius', you might want to check it out.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

to see the real heresies in Calvinism.

Already seen em, thats why there is no reason to talk about em, it just gives them a platform to scream from, mark em, and move on.

BigMack

[fortheDeclaration]

to see the real heresies in Calvinism. Already seen em, thats why there is no reason to talk about em, it just gives them a platform to scream from, mark em, and move on.

Point well made (Tit.3:10)

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Because when push comes to shove, man will never choose God, but his own indulgence.

how do you explain the universal need for Man to connect with God?

I don't recognize any such "need." That's gnosticism and new-age drivel -- that we all have a spark of the divine inside us. Look around you. Is the world striving for good or ill; charity or compassion; God or self?

Every age has its pretensions towards goodness. Certainly the 20th century pretensions were as corrupted as any, centering around "the psychology of self," and the largesse of the state, and the inherent goodness of the "natural" man.

The Bible tells us we are all fallen, everyone. Our "attempting to encounter the Divine," as you say, is simply chasing after our own shadow.

We do not "encounter the divine."

God "encounters" us, at His pleasure.

[RnMomof7]

I have read a couple of Hunts early books..I do not mind him all that much

People generally do not like calvinism.. I know I didn't

[RnMomof7]

Already seen em, thats why there is no reason to talk about em, it just gives them a platform to scream from, mark em, and move on. The blind do not see..they imagine in their head..

No Mack ..you have not seen THEM..

And do you intend to get people banned from this thread too...so they do not threaten your world?

Only cowards silence their crtitics