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Utah Baby Names (That distinctive name that says, "I'm Mormon.")
The Utah Baby Namer ^ | Wes and Cari Clark

Posted on 01/24/2003 4:41:20 PM PST by A.J.Armitage

What's In a (Utah) Name?

by Cari Bilyeu Clark


When my husband and I moved from Utah to the Washington, D.C. area seventeen years ago, we knew nothing of the inadvertent legacy we carried from our four years in Utah. Shortly after we arrived in our new home, we saw a television commercial for a local grocery store chain. The spokeswoman's name was the unusual "Odonna." "She's gotta be from Utah," I said to my husband. "That's a Utah name if I ever heard one."

We eventually learned that Odonna was, indeed, Utah born and bred.

It dawned on us that many names we'd heard during our college careers, and found only mildly remarkable, were indeed unique to the Utah Mormon culture. Thus began our quest to define what makes some names singularly Utahn, and what sets them apart from ethnic names with roots in other cultures, such as Juanita or Shoshanna; or African-American names such as Tawanda and Shaquille; or the newly common, soap-operaesque handles such as Skylar, Tiffany, Raven, and Adrienne. There's a difference, and it's not just the obviously Mormon scriptural names like Mahonri or Nephi or Moroni. Often identifying a Utah name is a gut feeling akin to Justice Potter Stewart's definition of pornography: you know it when you see it.

The quintessential Utah name often has a French-sounding prefix such as Le-, La-, Ne-, or Va-. Often names appear to have genesis in the combined names of the parents--Veradeane or GlenDora, for example. Related is the practice of feminizing the father's name--as in Vonda (dad is Vaughan) or Danetta. Others, such as Snell or Houser, appear to be surnames called into service as first names.

Related is the curious tendency, more common in Utah than elsewhere, for men (women do not seem to do this) to use the first initial, then the full middle name as the given name, such as L. Flake Roberts, who ran for office in Utah County when we lived there. (Come on, you've noticed this habit among the general authorities of the LDS church!) Besides puzzling over why someone would want to be known as "Flake," it makes one wonder just what the "L" stands for.

[Hmmmm. Where have we heard about that before? --A.J.]

So my husband and I entertained ourselves by collecting the often bizarre names we found in Utah publications (including the obituaries, which indicates that this is not a recent fad) and of Utah natives we met. We compiled a list and shared it with our friends, who often as not had a few more to add. We really hit a bonanza when one woman shared our observations with her mother, who worked at a Utah bank and had access to lots of names. She started her own list and began sending the names to us. (My personal favorite, LaNondus, came from this source.) Another friend told us of a set of sisters, all of whose names began with "Ja."

Once my husband had Internet access, he collected more names and corresponded with another couple who amused themselves the same way. They made cleverly categorized lists: "The ward choir director's daughters: LaVoice, Choral, Audia."

It makes you wonder what some parents were thinking when, for instance, they named their baby girl Lanae (la-nay)--and she unfortunately ended up with a big nose (le nez [la-nay] in French means "the nose"). Or the girl named M'Lu--are clever wags endlessly asking her to skip to it? And how the heck do people with apostrophes in their names fill out computerized forms? There's no apostrophe space. The guy I really pity, though, is the one saddled with the unfortunate moniker, Rube.

Of course, parents cannot predict what new interpretations the marketplace will bring to the names they lovingly bestow on their offspring. I once worked at a company which had dealings with a woman named LaPriel (pronounced la-prell). When I told my former roommate about this inexplicable first name, she sardonically replied, "What's her sister's name--LaTegrin?"

With the generally larger-than-average family, often saddled with the very ordinary surnames Smith, Johnson, or Young, it's not surprising that many Utah parents look for unique given names for their children. When you throw in the reverence for family and ancestors forwarded by the LDS Church, it seems inevitable that someone would end up with LaEarl, KDell, Arnolene or Hariella.

Some names, though, seem to defy description--if not pronunciation. While pride of place may have spawned Utahna, how did somebody come up with Wealtha? And while Lloydine's genesis seems plausible, how on earth were Printha or Noy coined? And I have no idea what constitutes the correct pronunciation for Kairle or Tawhnye. (I suspect they may be wildly creative spellings of Carol and Tonya.)

Perhaps the following list (by no means comprehensive) will amuse you. Perhaps it will offend you. Perhaps you will find your name, or the name of a relative, on it. Or perhaps you will be so enchanted by a particular name that you'll want to bestow it upon one of your own offspring. If that is your plan, first do this: go to the back door, fling it open and yell the name at the top of your lungs six or eight times, because that's how it's going to be heard for the next eighteen years. And remember, when little Wynante (boy or girl, you choose) grows up, you'll have to live with the consequences.




The Cream of the Crop

The Clarks' Favorite Utah Names

Updated 24 January 2003


The new parents couldn't be happier: Gladell & Delightra (sisters), Luvit, Delecta, Delite, Joyette, Joi, Joyia, Joyellen, Joycell, Hallah Lujah [How about Hallah Back Y'all? --A.J.], Bliss, Joyanne

Cleanliness is next to Godliness: Zestpoole, Sparkle

The Ward Choir Director's Daughters: Aria, Audia, Aurel, Choral, LaVoice, Tonilee, Capella, Chime, Rocksan Violin

Jewels every one: Amulet, Pearlette, Pearlene, Emerald, JewlyAnn, Ahmre Jade, Treasure Tonya, Turquoise Nova, Sequin, Amethist.

Girls you just know have big, floofy hair: Blondeen, Rayette, Faundaree, Shazette, Shasheena, Honilynn, Najestica, Teasa, Shazzanna, Pluma, Bobbette, Blonda, Breezy, Wenderella, Aquanetta, Brinderella, Dazzlyn

Maybe they're in the Klingon Ward: Tchae, Xko, Corx, G'ni, Vvhs, Garn, Ka, Deauxti, Xymoya, Sha'Kira [Her older sister is called Macare'na.], Zy, Xela, Tscharna, Nivek, Zon'tl, Zagg, Xan, Judziah Datz (a female, named after a character in Star Trek), K'lar (ditto), Jarna Nazhalena, Chod, Xarek, Grik, Stod, T'Shara, Tral, Sherik, Curg

[I am Krang the Merciless!! And I'm a Mormon!]

The Worth of a Soul: Cashley

Astronomical: LeVoid, Sunan, Moonyene, Starlene, Sunelly, Luna, Lunia, Solinda, Sunirae, Staryl, Marandastarr, Season, Aries, Starlyn, Cressent, Celestial Starr, Summerlyn, Astrolena

Could only be LDS: Cumorah Hill, Liahonna, Ensign, Nauvoo, Kirtland, Templa, Templer, Tempella, Tempalia, Ziona, Deseret (and Desereta), Tabernacle, Woodruff, Pratt, Tithing, Quorum, Helamans Warrior, Iron Rod, Morona, Manti, Stripling, Nephi Courage, Celestial Glory, Celestian, Brighaminie, Zion, Xione (pronounced "zion")

Parents were BYU math majors: Alpha Mae, Seven, Seavenly, Twenty, Prime, Omega Lee, Jennyfivetina, Tenna [Mormon porn star: Tenna Tameson.], Elevena, Ninea, Eighta

[How would you like to be named after your birth order?]

You can name a kid this, but you shouldn't ingest it: Cola, Vinyl, Orlon, Chlorine, Clorene, Florene, Florine, Lexann, Dow, Tide, Downy, Codiene, Daquari, DeCon, Starbuck, Crayon, Treasure Cocaine

[Classy. Real classy.]

Names inspired by the family car: Audi, Fairlene, Celecta, Pontiac, Vonda, Vonza, Auto, Cherokee, Lexus, Porsche, Skylark, Truckston, Avis, Chevrollette, Chevonne, Caprice, Dodge

["Honey, nothing says class like Lexus. Now go make some jello."]

Wishful thinking: Darlin', Courage, Winsome, Justan Tru, Pictorianna, Paradise Sunrise, Sage, Angelic, Breed, Godlove, Myrth, LaVirgin, DeFonda Virtue, Chastice, Normalene, Lovie Angel, Precious Blessing, Heavenly Melanie, Glee, Mormon Beauty, Pledger, Jentill, Devota, Coy, Fondd, Bridella, Verna Noall, Vervine, Viva, Golden Noble, MarVel, MemRee, Brunette, Merrily, Merry Ann, Celestial, Cherrish, Kash, Cashelle, Teton, Forever, Luvit, Mystiq, Worthy, Truly, Pleasant, Speedy, Hereditary, Shrudilee, Halo, Gentry, Truthanne, Finita, Mavryck, Amen, Merrijane, Marvelous Man.

Dad's hobby is obvious: Justa Cowgirl, Rode O, Hazer, Durango, Rifle, Laker, Jazz, Truck. Granite, Garnet, Gneiss (and other sisters with rock names beginning with “G.”)

Conversational: Whisper, Chat

Indications of possible birthplace: Arizonia, Floria, Montania, Utah, Utahna, Idahana, Idaho, Mauntana [Flunk spelling, name you kid Mauntana. Study hard!], Michigan, Nevadna, Okla, Vermont, Wyoming, Wyoma, Cache, Jordana, Payson, Vernal, Boise, Brookelynn, Lexington, Demoyn, Fredonia, Leremy, Platte, Salina, Seattle, Takoma, Tulsa, Tustin, Vail, Lundyn, Londyn, Irelynd, Irelan, Madrid, Manila, Cairo, Damascus, Tyre, Desert, Shahara, Trinidad, Houston, Cachelyn, D'Asia, Edon, Takoda, Orem, Shannon doah, Davenport Shore

No man (or woman) is an island - exceptions: Oahu, Irlanda, Tonga, SeaBreaze, Tiki Lou

Possible conception placenames: Hilton, Nafeteria, Bridges, Castle

Indications of possible birthdates: Juneth, Junola, LaJune, Julyn, Halloween, Novella, Summerisa, Winnter, Christmas Holiday, Merrienoel, Kris Miss, Tuesdee, Aprella

The day dawn is breaking: Dawnae, Dawnia, Dawnel, Dawnelle, Dawnene, Dawnalyn, Dawnette, Karadawn, RaDawn, Keturah Dawn, SheriDawn, LuDawn, LaDawn, Le Dawn, El Dawn, Dawnetta, Dawnese, Mistidawn, Berva Dawn, Celestial Dawn, Bodawn, Honey Dawn, Sunrise, Dawny, Yodawn, Dawnika, Dawnray, Denverly Dawn, Sunni Dawn, Dusty Dawn, Taradawn, Twyla Dawn, Georgia Dawn, Iva Dawn, Marva Dawn

Dad was a plumber: Valva, BeDae, Latrina, La Jonne, Digger

Dad worked for the postal service: Mailene

Dad's a lawyer: Justicia

Dad had a hernia: Truss

Less is more: La, Oa, NB, T, M, Q, JJ

I hope the computer will accept apostrophes in the name fields: D'Ann, D'Aun, D'Bora, D'Dee, D'Elise, D'Loaf, D'Shara, E'all, L'Deane, L'orL, Ja'mon, J'Costa, J'dean, J'Leen, J'net, J'Shara, J'Vonna, La'Donis, Me'shell, M'Jean, M'Kaaylie, M'Kenna, Mi'Lara, M'Lisa, M'Liss, M'Lu, M'Recia, O'lea, R'dell, R'lene, Shan'l, Young'n, B'andra, De'lys, D'Dree

["And the called her... O'Lestra. She had the runs a lot."]

Future names of prescriptions: Lyravin, Monalaine, Nyleen, Merlaine, Monease, Naquel, Ronalene, Nylan, Rolayne, Tyron, Lexine, Lyrin, Mikatin, Artax, Xtrin, Tylene, Qedrin, Tamrin, Denilyn, Kevrin, Nicolin, Xylan, Tolex, Zylan, Daycal, Falycid, Zerin, Davon, Sydal

Wow! What a Babe!: Wavie, Zhalore, LaTanna, Tressa, LaDreama, Amourette

Fluid-related: Thermos, Soda, Logan River, Jordan River, Susquehannah, Canteen

When simple alphabetic characters aren't enough: K-8 (pronounced "Kate," I guess)

[Kids: that's happens when you're illiterate. Stay in school!]

Politically incorrect: Sambo, Aryion

[Maybe they weren't thinking "Aryan", but "Arian". Heretics gotta stick together!]

Heard chanted in the Salt Lake airport: Ara-Om

Has food connotations: Dianarea, Dicey, Vindalu, Blenda, Strawberry, Sugarlee, Beena, Pork Chop, Sesami, Jar, Karmel, Kresent, TaffiLyn, Chipo

Had breathing problems in the hospital nursery: Azure, Syrullean

You might find in a forest: Wrendie, Jilbear, Timber, Oaks, Pixie, LaFawnduh, Fawn-Dew, Ember, Bird, Magpie, Serenity Fawn, Paradi, L'Aire, Brookelle, Sylvan, Fawna, Lawn, Rain, Gazelle, El Fawn ["El" makes it masculine, "Fawn" makes it girly-poofy. El Fawn: expressing pride from Salt Lake City to San Francisco.], Aspen, Acacia, Panda, Briar, Rhodendra, Fernnola, Birdene, Hummingbird, Disney, Chinchilla Zest, Haven, Glade

No doubt about it, this kid's in charge: Rexina, Rexine, Queenola, Dominee, Ruger, Messiah Angel, Oden, RexDee, Navy, Jentry, Czar, LeeMaster, Quintessa, Marquessa, Leviathan, Captain.

Smells: Cachet, Reaka, Violeet, Avon, Budla

Faux ethnic: Laddie, Walkasheaqua, Bsjonet, Hishla, Chilnecha, Forthilda, Kaltighanna, Alainka, Chip-wa, Pawnece America, Zem Saxon, O'Ann, WaThene, Sheighlagh, Valliere

Commemorating something or another: Welcome Exile, Confederate American, Southern Justice, Liberty Lulu, Young Elizabeth, Genesis, MistiNoele, Imagine, Thankful Flood, Friends Forsaken, Joyous Noel, Tennyson, Knight Train, Miracles Precious One, Sunday's Hoseana, Disney, Blessing Ream, Stormy Shepherd, Denim Levi, Vernal Independence, Sincere Devotion, Mothers, Elvoid, Noah-Lot, Mormon Miracles, MyLae, Nightrain Lane, Zion Anakin, Jeopardee, Statehood, Denim Levi

Let's hope not: Rube, Sleeza, Nymphus, Golden P., Burns, Hydra, Non, Malis, Talon, Beefea, Patches, Storm, Slayer, Sterile, Slaughter, Jynx, Hyde, Prynne, StormiAnn, Sham, Apathy, DeRail, Dull, Gamble

In a class of their own (In fact, I'm not sure I believe these but we asked for details and a confirmation and got convincing replies, so here they are): NaLa'DeLuhRay, Phakelikaydenicia, Zaragrunudgeyon ("Zarg," for short), Jennyfivetina, Tiarrhea, Nudity, VulvaMae, DaLinda LaDale, Tugdick, Saunsceneyouray, and, yes... Clitoris.

["Well, it sounded pretty when the doctor said it, and my wife Placenta likes it."]

Teletubbies: Laalaa

Guaranteed to get last place on our list (or anyone else's): ZZkora

I can't think of anything clever to write but these must be mentioned: Barbeli, Revo Cram, Feramorz, Glint, LaNondus, Wynante, Camera, Lecoya, AureJudd, NaNon, Bimberly, DavidO, Leumas ("Samuel" backwards), Ralphene, Shimber, T-vive, Synthi, CoJane, Nona-rene, Gaylawn, Txanton, LaZello, Daycal, Sancie D'Wan, RaVoe, Zenus, Gatobon, LaEarl, Trystal, AndiOdette, Serenity-Tabitha-Ann, Alexavier, X Y Zella, Bonquisha, Musser Cenia, Jubeltine, Oryeon, Shlori, Danlonaga, Zedwain, Casualeen, Young'n, Shambertine Crille, Canon, Malique, LeeWitt, Jazzeri, DeRaunz, Teru, Aaro, Divid, Cimemthymia, LaDonnaJosephrania, LaDeeDee, deRalph, MaddLynAlain, Vyquetoriya, Falycid, Rophis, Mick BonScott, Kaysional Tempest, Darianlelo, DeLaVerne, BoChe', Minnet, Kandle, Seena Tawnya, Dwodger, J Thoral, Xanderrick, Abcde, KNikkol, Demeatrice, LLean Shanalyn, Scytha Solena, HiDee


TOPICS: Humor; Other non-Christian
KEYWORDS:
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To: restornu
Win? No.....

I had no dog in that fight, but the Great God of Sports required a time sacrifice, so I had my munchies, my pop, my remote and I was set!

Until the score was tied 3-3 and it was BORING and shoveling lots of snow earlier in the day kicked in, and I dozed off. I awoke in time for the evening news and found out that them guys had awakened while I slept and run up a big scoring game!


So, since I'd just had this long nap, I checked out the WEB.

(That's my story and I'm stickin' to it!!)

151 posted on 01/27/2003 6:49:21 AM PST by Elsie (I trust in Jesus.... THOUSANDS OF EXISTING MANUSCRIPTS speak of Him!)
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To: A.J.Armitage
No such thing in Mormonism, eh?

But...... was it "'SCRIPTURAL'"?

152 posted on 01/27/2003 6:54:16 AM PST by Elsie (I trust in Jesus.... THOUSANDS OF EXISTING MANUSCRIPTS speak of Him!)
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To: A.J.Armitage; Illbay; White Mountain; CubicleGuy; Utah Girl; rising tide; Grig; Rad_J
No such thing in Mormonism, eh?

Only in your impure demented rancor mind could carry these fruits of satan!

You can try to place your incompatible gift at the LDS door step, but it is you who manifest foulness.

That property belongs to you A.J.Armitage:)

153 posted on 01/27/2003 7:02:13 AM PST by restornu
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To: Wrigley
Does clean living include divorces?

Sometimes!

Now if the LDS would just become part of the unwashed we could be comfortable with them:)

154 posted on 01/27/2003 7:09:00 AM PST by restornu
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To: Elsie
I had my munchies, my pop, my remote and I was set

You better get a sugar test after that Carbo feast!:)

155 posted on 01/27/2003 7:12:30 AM PST by restornu
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To: A.J.Armitage
"animosity is the whole reason I posted the thread. Or do you think I wanted to celebrate Mormon "culture"?"

I though you wanted to take a light hearted poke at Utah Mormon culture, something we non-Utah Mormons do all the time as well as non Mormons.

Silly me, thinking you could feel anything other than animosity towards anything connected to the LDS.
156 posted on 01/27/2003 8:57:35 AM PST by Grig
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To: White Mountain
Anyone know where the Superbowl commercials are online?
157 posted on 01/27/2003 8:59:00 AM PST by Grig
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To: BibChr
"Well, it's your opinion that it's his opinion."

No, it really is his opinion. It is my opinion that his opinion is incorrect, and his that mine is incorrect.

"It's my opinion that he's just stating the facts"

I'm glad you got that part right.

"You up to that sort of honesty?"

That would not be honesty. You cling to your distorted view and call those who try and point out the distortion liars. Straw Man 101.

LDS doctrine is not contridicted by the LDS understanding of the Bible, it DOES contridict YOUR understanding of the Bible. If you want to say we understand the Bible wrongly, or that our doctrine contridicts your view of the Bible, go right ahead, but 'you don't agree with me so you are not being honest' crap is childish. And not having your personal respect is no great hardship for me.
158 posted on 01/27/2003 9:42:56 AM PST by Grig
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To: Grig; drstevej
It's your opinion that it's not your opinion that it's your opinion.

So now we know loyalty to your cult has requires you to be dishonest and lazy. You've picked the laziest "out" in the world (everything's "just your opinion" to the person who doesn't want to hear it). I was going to say, "Let me show you how it works" -- but the truth is that I *did* just show you, and it sailed right over your head.

One day you will face facts, as you refuse to do now. That is a certainty. I pray God it won't be too late.

Dan
159 posted on 01/27/2003 9:59:16 AM PST by BibChr
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To: BibChr
"You've picked the laziest "out" in the world "

No, the laziest "out" in the world is declare that your opinion is a fact and anyone who has a different opinion is a liar. If you can't at least get the point where you realize other people can honestly hold opinions you do not agree with then you will never be able to have a meaningful conversation with anyone but yes men (which wouldn't really be a meaningful conservation). There is nothing dishonest or lazy about calling an opinion and opinion no matter how much you dislike my doing so.

"I *did* just show you, and it sailed right over your head."

Wrong again. All you did was prepare to drag out a handfull of old straw men. I see no reason to go into debunking any of the specific straw men when you can't even tell what an opinion is in the more general case.
160 posted on 01/27/2003 10:53:38 AM PST by Grig
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To: Grig; drstevej
Blah blah blah, dodge dodge dodge.

So here's the score:

Factual contents: ME = 1 GRIG = 0
Germane response: ME = 2 GRIG = 0
Lazy Dodges: ME = 0 GRIG = nothing but

Lovin' that Mormon logic (and other oxymorons).

Dan
161 posted on 01/27/2003 11:21:39 AM PST by BibChr
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To: BibChr
And AlGore says he won the election.
162 posted on 01/27/2003 2:43:23 PM PST by Grig
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To: Grig; drstevej
(Getting out calculator.) Let's see... that's zero... plus zero... carry the zero....

Still zero!

Dan
163 posted on 01/27/2003 2:48:52 PM PST by BibChr
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To: BibChr
In NMM, it equals 200.
164 posted on 01/27/2003 2:55:03 PM PST by Wrigley
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To: BibChr
Lovin' that Mormon logic (and other oxymorons).

Someone who claims to be an adherent of Christianity, whatever the flavor, would do well to consider the inherent absurdity of criticizing someone else's flavor on the basis of logic.

165 posted on 01/27/2003 2:58:54 PM PST by Pahuanui
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To: Pahuanui; drstevej
Mormonism is another "flavor" of Christianity like arsenic is another "flavor" of chocolate syrup.

Dan
166 posted on 01/27/2003 3:06:15 PM PST by BibChr
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To: BibChr
Mormonism is another "flavor" of Christianity like arsenic is another "flavor" of chocolate syrup.

Mmm-hmmm. Way to utterly, consciously miss the point, champ.

167 posted on 01/27/2003 3:18:35 PM PST by Pahuanui
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To: restornu
The early Mormon "prophets", in addition to being racists, had a collection of female sexual partners. That's a harem. You cannot deny that.
A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach. (1 Timothy 3:2)

But hey, what did Paul know? He didn't have any wives. No "exaltation" for him!

168 posted on 01/27/2003 4:25:27 PM PST by A.J.Armitage
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To: Grig
Heresy is nothing to be light hearted about.
169 posted on 01/27/2003 4:28:51 PM PST by A.J.Armitage
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To: Grig
LDS doctrine is not contridicted by the LDS understanding of the Bible

Do you "understand" there to be a missing "more than" in 1 Timothy 3:2? Hey, maybe it's in that special version of the Bible you Mormons have.

Or Romans 9. Do you "understand" Paul to have been writing on "yes means no day"?

170 posted on 01/27/2003 4:34:37 PM PST by A.J.Armitage
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To: A.J.Armitage
chuckle chuckle you talk from your impure thoughts!
171 posted on 01/27/2003 4:40:23 PM PST by restornu (I am a child of God:)
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To: BibChr
Pretty sad when the only way you can cook up a 'win' is to appoint your team as scorekeeper. Since you seem unable (unwilling is more like it I bet) to recognize opinion, factual content, germane response except when it suits you, as well as your own duck and weave, I'de say Hellen Keller would keep score better.

I have no doubt you are right now mentaly composing your reply and deciding on what manner of schoolyard taunting to put in it this time. Don't waste the effort, save it for someone who cares a flying fig about what you think instead.
172 posted on 01/27/2003 6:51:31 PM PST by Grig
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To: A.J.Armitage
"Heresy is nothing to be light hearted about."

It's heresy to give a kid a weird name? Geez, I must have missed that part of the Bible.
173 posted on 01/27/2003 6:56:38 PM PST by Grig
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To: Grig; drstevej
Okay, so that's zero, plus zero, plus zero, plus zero. Total?

ZERO!

Still without a syllable of substantial response:

As I have often said, I would have much more personal respect for the Mormon who said, "Oh, no doubt about it: you can't believe what the Bible teaches, taken by itself, and Mormonism at the same time. They are mutually exclusive. I just like Joe." (I feel the same about JW's and RC's, for the record; just change the source authorities.)

You up to that sort of honesty? Or are you beating the "Yep! Yessir! There is and only can be but one God — AND one day we'll ALL be Gods! Yep! Salvation is by grace alone through faith alone on the basis of the finished work of Christ alone — AND I have to add my good deeds to it in order to be saved" drum?

Dan

174 posted on 01/27/2003 7:13:57 PM PST by BibChr
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To: A.J.Armitage
I somehow rather doubt you care one bit about knowing what the LDS understanding of the Bible is for any verse.
175 posted on 01/27/2003 7:20:31 PM PST by Grig
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To: Illbay; RnMomof7; drstevej; Elsie; Wrigley
Tapestry of Polygamy (check them out if you can get past your prejudices) helps women (girls really: married at 11 or 12 then kept pregnant) with little education, no family support (blood atonement is still openly practiced in the polyg communities) and saddest of all, no help at all from the LDS. The last is really bothersome since polygamy was legitimized by JS and is the doppleganger of his modern successors.
176 posted on 01/27/2003 7:53:05 PM PST by CARepubGal
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To: Pahuanui; Wrigley; BibChr; CARepubGal; Elsie; RnMomof7; CCWoody; Bat_Chemist
You consider Mormonism just another flavor of Christianity? How about the Branch Davidians? How about the Unification Church? How about the Aryan Nation? How about Christian Science? Just alternate flavors.

Why shouldn't logic play a part in the assessment? Why shouldn't biblical assessment be done? Our LDS friends say if the bosom burns you must not spurn. They know they are right because they know they are right.

I say, be noble and compare Joseph Smith and Bringem Young to the Bible and let the chips fall where they may. Acst 17:11.

I say that any book that is demonstrably a funerary notice but is palmed off as the writings of Abraham describing a Counsel of Gods residing nigh unto the planet Kolob should be not only rejected, but exposed.

I say a religion that makes up ordinances that give people false hope is not neutral, it is spiritually dangerous.

Proxy baptisms, celestial marriage, Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother generating spirit babies waiting mortality, second chance salvation after death... An this is just the beginning. Turning sinners black, convenient revelation lifting polygamy and opening the priesthood to blacks to avoid cultural and legal problems, chocolate rocks used to translated Reformed Egyptian golden plates into King James English....

This is clearly another flavor (another gospel). Baskin and Robins offers 31 flavors, but they don't serve toejam flavor ice cream. Just wouldn't be right.
177 posted on 01/27/2003 8:02:41 PM PST by drstevej (if the bosom burns you must not spurn...)
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To: drstevej
LOL! So true!
178 posted on 01/27/2003 8:06:26 PM PST by CARepubGal
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To: BibChr
As predicted, nothing but more childish taunting.

Like I said before, you present nothing but old straw men that have already been given substantial responses many times over. [You do know what a straw man is, don't you?]

Since you don't care about that, and you have this delusion that nobody can honestly hold an opinion contrary to your own, I really don't see any point in going over it yet again. A brick wall would be more reasonable to talk with.

You also seem driven by some egotistical need to 'score' but wake up and realize that it isn't a game, and you can't taunt me into some childish fight. I can see your passion is for the fight itself, not for the truth.

If you somehow miraculously convince me that you are sincere and have become reasonable, then I would gladly take the time to go into detail, but getting me to think that way of you won't be easy given the behaviour I've seen from you do date.

If you are so desperate to know exactly how those 'contridictions' you list are distortions of LDS theology without making the effort of becoming a civil human being, go look it up at one of the many fine LDS apologetics sites around. I have better things to do than try to reason with the unreasonable.

Of course, the fastest way to prove you are not sincere or reasonable beyond all doubt is to post a reply making the false and illogical claim that since I will not go into detail, that I can not, especialy after I point that out to you like I just did.
179 posted on 01/27/2003 8:16:25 PM PST by Grig
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To: CARepubGal
"and saddest of all, no help at all from the LDS"

You think the church should have a band of polygamy police or something? The church has no civic authority or power to punish other than disfellowhip or excommunicate.

Just what do you think the church should be doing that it isn't?
180 posted on 01/27/2003 8:25:42 PM PST by Grig
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To: Grig; drstevej; LiteKeeper; RnMomof7
How about helping a mother and her kids get on their feet? Food, clothing, shelter? Or does the CHI not make provisions for polygamist escapees. These ladies tried to get a little help and were told they were not eligible.
181 posted on 01/27/2003 8:28:41 PM PST by CARepubGal
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To: CARepubGal
"These ladies tried to get a little help and were told they were not eligible."

Details and sources please. CHI Book 2 Sec 8 (Spiritual and Temporal Welfare) says nothing about denying help to polygamist escapees.
182 posted on 01/27/2003 8:46:34 PM PST by Grig
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To: CARepubGal
CLUE: None of these people are "Mormons." And they haven't been for about five generations.
183 posted on 01/27/2003 8:50:08 PM PST by Illbay
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To: Grig
Carmen Thompson's story. Tapestry of Polygamy founder.

Read link: http://www.polygamyinfo.com/author1.htm

To be fair, the LDS gave a donation to Tapestry but this is a case of too little too late.
184 posted on 01/27/2003 9:11:40 PM PST by CARepubGal
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To: Illbay
Clue:

Polygs recruit in Utah/Idaho. They get faithful LDS girls who read D&C 132 and take it literally.
185 posted on 01/27/2003 9:14:42 PM PST by CARepubGal
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To: Illbay
Uh, my understanding is that you don't have to be a memeber.
186 posted on 01/27/2003 9:16:46 PM PST by Grig
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To: CARepubGal
The only think I see there is that she asked a Bishop if he knew of a place to rent and he advised her to return to her husband. That account gives no detail on how much of the situation she told the Bishop and I think it's rather unfair to blame the whole church for the actions of one (probably uninformed) Bishop.

Or did I miss something in that account?
187 posted on 01/27/2003 9:42:30 PM PST by Grig
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To: CARepubGal
"They get faithful LDS girls who read D&C 132 and take it literally."

And if they don't take OD1 literally too, who's fault is it?
188 posted on 01/27/2003 9:44:37 PM PST by Grig
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To: Grig
Nah, when I heard the story I was told this was a common occurrence. I wonder if this has something to do with great Grandpa and his wives. The best case scenario is ignorance and inability to deal with the unusual.
189 posted on 01/27/2003 9:48:21 PM PST by CARepubGal
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To: Grig
I somehow rather doubt you care one bit about knowing what the LDS understanding of the Bible is for any verse.

The LDS understanding for many verses cannot be other than desperate weasling to avoid the clear meaning. I certainly don't need to know any of it for my edification. Maybe my amusement.

190 posted on 01/27/2003 9:59:09 PM PST by A.J.Armitage
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To: Grig
Your #157: Anyone know where the Superbowl commercials are online?

If you are an AOL Broadband user, use the keyword "Super Bowl Ads".

191 posted on 01/28/2003 1:32:07 AM PST by White Mountain (Jesus said, "... come, follow me." Luke 18:22)
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To: Pahuanui
Yup........

If they didn't use reason to START believing, you ain't gonna be able to use 'reason' to make 'em change!

192 posted on 01/28/2003 2:12:32 AM PST by Elsie (I trust in Jesus.... THOUSANDS OF EXISTING MANUSCRIPTS speak of Him!)
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To: A.J.Armitage
Ah, yes.... IF you're just a plain ol' bishop!

That's why it's "good to be Prophet"!

193 posted on 01/28/2003 2:14:10 AM PST by Elsie (I trust in Jesus.... THOUSANDS OF EXISTING MANUSCRIPTS speak of Him!)
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To: Grig
"He grew up tough,
and he grew up mean........"

A Boy Named Sue
194 posted on 01/28/2003 2:15:39 AM PST by Elsie (I trust in Jesus.... THOUSANDS OF EXISTING MANUSCRIPTS speak of Him!)
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To: Grig
AHhh... relativism:

My 'opinion' is just as valuable as YOUR 'opinion'.


True, everyone IS entitled to their own opinion, but we are NOT possessors of our own TRUTH.
195 posted on 01/28/2003 2:18:29 AM PST by Elsie (I trust in Jesus.... THOUSANDS OF EXISTING MANUSCRIPTS speak of Him!)
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To: Grig
And if they don't take OD1 literally too, who's fault is it?

Something in the language difference?

196 posted on 01/28/2003 2:20:32 AM PST by Elsie (I trust in Jesus.... THOUSANDS OF EXISTING MANUSCRIPTS speak of Him!)
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To: BibChr
You up to that sort of honesty? Or are you beating the "Yep! Yessir! There is and only can be but one God — AND one day we'll ALL be Gods! Yep! Salvation is by grace alone through faith alone on the basis of the finished work of Christ alone — AND I have to add my good deeds to it in order to be saved" drum?

Dan

You always have to put your spin on it, the spirit you berate the LDS with is NOT the Holy Spirit, it is some VILE thing you use to VENT with!

You "self rightous vessle" I will tell you as I have said to other SRV!

You are LIKE satan in the Garden of Eden try to beguild the LDS!"

I don't know how many time the LDS have told you we do NOT think about being god or godess even in the Temple. Our focus is on doing Heavenly Father will and our families! It is you who is preoccupy and try to claim that is what we think about, it is you who has impure thoughts about plural marriage. It is you who bring these fruits to the LDS door steps.

They are a prime ingredients to tarish the LDS from the spiritual ignorance of the things from God. It is you and other who would change the definition sacred from God to secret. Now you folks try to lower the bar more call LDS occult!

It you trying to beguild with demands that LDS cast their pearls to anti-LDS swine!

Sadly there are wonderful treasures you children will never know or see because you are so consumed with destroy at all cost!

I can tell you now it will never happen that you or others will ever bring down the "House of the Lord" in this final dispensation! Some of us LDS may faulter, but the WORK of the Lord will NEVER!

I say this humbly!

197 posted on 01/28/2003 2:56:44 AM PST by restornu (I am a child of God:)
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To: Grig
From here -->  http://scriptures.lds.org/gsm/mrrgmrry
 
Plural marriage: The marriage of a husband to two or more living wives. It is lawful for a man to have only one wife, unless the Lord commands otherwise by revelation (Jacob 2: 27-30). By revelation, plural marriage was practiced in Old Testament times and in the early days of the restored Church by the direction of the prophet who held the priesthood keys (D&C 132: 34-40, 45). It is no longer practiced in the Church (D&C OD-1); today, having more than one wife is incompatible with membership in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
 

 
 
D&C 132               July 12, 1843
D&C OD-1            October 6, 1890
 Therefore, prepare thy heart to receive and obey the instructions which I am about to give unto you; for all those who have this law revealed unto them must obey the same.

 For behold, I reveal unto you a new and an everlasting covenant; (or maybe just 47 years!) and if ye abide not that covenant, then are ye damned; for no one can reject this covenant and be permitted to enter into my glory.

 For all who will have a blessing at my hands shall abide the law which was appointed for that blessing, and the conditions thereof, as were instituted from before the foundation of the world.

 And as pertaining to the new and everlasting covenant, it was instituted for the fulness of my glory; and he that receiveth a fulness thereof must and shall abide the law, or he shall be damned, saith the Lord God.

 And verily I say unto you, that the conditions of this law are these: All covenants, contracts, bonds, obligations, oaths, vows, performances, connections, associations, or expectations, that are not made and entered into and sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, of him who is anointed, both as well for time and for all eternity, and that too most holy, by revelation and commandment through the medium of mine anointed, whom I have appointed on the earth to hold this power (and I have appointed unto my servant Joseph to hold this power in the last days, and there is never but one on the earth at a time on whom this power and the keys of this priesthood are conferred), are of no efficacy, virtue, or force in and after the resurrection from the dead; for all contracts that are not made unto this end have an end when men are dead.

 Behold, mine house is a house of order, saith the Lord God, and not a house of confusion.

 Will I accept of an offering, saith the Lord, that is not made in my name?

 Or will I receive at your hands that which I have not appointed?

 And will I appoint unto you, saith the Lord, except it be by law, even as I and my Father ordained unto you, before the world was?

 I am the Lord thy God; and I give unto you this commandment—that no man shall come unto the Father but by me or by my word, which is my law, saith the Lord.

 And everything that is in the world, whether it be ordained of men, by thrones, or principalities, or powers, or things of name, whatsoever they may be, that are not by me or by my word, saith the Lord, shall be thrown down, and shall not remain after men are dead, neither in nor after the resurrection, saith the Lord your God.

 For whatsoever things remain are by me; and whatsoever things are not by me shall be shaken and destroyed.

 Therefore, if a man marry him a wife in the world, and he marry her not by me nor by my word, and he covenant with her so long as he is in the world and she with him, their covenant and marriage are not of force when they are dead, and when they are out of the world; therefore, they are not bound by any law when they are out of the world.

 Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in marriage; but are appointed angels in heaven, which angels are ministering servants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.

 For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever.

 And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity, if that covenant is not by me or by my word, which is my law, and is not sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, through him whom I have anointed and appointed unto this power, then it is not valid neither of force when they are out of the world, because they are not joined by me, saith the Lord, neither by my word; when they are out of the world it cannot be received there, because the angels and the gods are appointed there, by whom they cannot pass; they cannot, therefore, inherit my glory; for my house is a house of order, saith the Lord God.

 And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and everlasting covenant, and it is sealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of promise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the keys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them—Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit thrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths—then shall it be written in the Lamb’s Book of Life, that he shall commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, and if ye abide in my covenant, and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their exaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the seeds forever and ever.

 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them.

 Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my law ye cannot attain to this glory.

 For strait is the gate, and narrow the way that leadeth unto the exaltation and continuation of the lives, and few there be that find it, because ye receive me not in the world neither do ye know me.

 But if ye receive me in the world, then shall ye know me, and shall receive your exaltation; that where I am ye shall be also.

 This is eternal lives—to know the only wise and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom he hath sent. I am he. Receive ye, therefore, my law.

 Broad is the gate, and wide the way that leadeth to the deaths; and many there are that go in thereat, because they receive me not, neither do they abide in my law.

 Verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man marry a wife according to my word, and they are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, according to mine appointment, and he or she shall commit any sin or transgression of the new and everlasting covenant whatever, and all manner of blasphemies, and if they commit no murder wherein they shed innocent blood, yet they shall come forth in the first resurrection, and enter into their exaltation; but they shall be destroyed in the flesh, and shall be delivered unto the buffetings of Satan unto the day of redemption, saith the Lord God.

 The blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, which shall not be forgiven in the world nor out of the world, is in that ye commit murder wherein ye shed innocent blood, and assent unto my death, after ye have received my new and everlasting covenant, saith the Lord God; and he that abideth not this law can in nowise enter into my glory, but shall be damned, saith the Lord.

 I am the Lord thy God, and will give unto thee the law of my Holy Priesthood, as was ordained by me and my Father before the world was.

 Abraham received all things, whatsoever he received, by revelation and commandment, by my word, saith the Lord, and hath entered into his exaltation and sitteth upon his throne.

 Abraham received promises concerning his seed, and of the fruit of his loins—from whose loins ye are, namely, my servant Joseph—which were to continue so long as they were in the world; and as touching Abraham and his seed, out of the world they should continue; both in the world and out of the world should they continue as innumerable as the stars; or, if ye were to count the sand upon the seashore ye could not number them.

 This promise is yours also, because ye are of Abraham, and the promise was made unto Abraham; and by this law is the continuation of the works of my Father, wherein he glorifieth himself.

 Go ye, therefore, and do the works of Abraham; enter ye into my law and ye shall be saved.

 But if ye enter not into my law ye cannot receive the promise of my Father, which he made unto Abraham.

 God commanded Abraham, and Sarah gave Hagar to Abraham to wife. And why did she do it? Because this was the law; (OH? this is news to me!) and from Hagar sprang many people. This, therefore, was fulfilling, among other things, the promises.
 Was Abraham, therefore, under condemnation? Verily I say unto you, Nay; for I, the Lord, commanded it.
 Abraham was commanded to offer his son Isaac; nevertheless, it was written: Thou shalt not kill. (long after this time...) Abraham, however, did not refuse, and it was accounted unto him for righteousness.
 Abraham received concubines, and they bore him children; and it was accounted unto him for righteousness, (no it wasn't!!! read Hebrews 11th chapter!!) because they were given unto him, and he abode in my law; as Isaac also and Jacob did none other things than that which they were commanded; and because they did none other things than that which they were commanded, they have entered into their exaltation, according to the promises, and sit upon thrones, and are not angels but are gods.
 David also received many wives and concubines, and also Solomon and Moses my servants, as also many others of my servants, from the beginning of creation until this time; and in nothing did they sin save in those things which they received not of me.
 David’s wives and concubines were given unto him of me, by the hand of Nathan, my servant, and others of the prophets who had the keys of this power; and in none of these things did he sin against me save in the case of Uriah and his wife; and, therefore he hath fallen from his exaltation, and received his portion; and he shall not inherit them out of the world, for I gave them unto another, saith the Lord.
 I am the Lord thy God, and I gave unto thee, my servant Joseph, an appointment, and restore all things. Ask what ye will, and it shall be given unto you according to my word.
 And as ye have asked concerning adultery, verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man receiveth a wife in the new and everlasting covenant, and if she be with another man, and I have not appointed unto her by the holy anointing, she hath committed adultery and shall be destroyed.

 If she be not in the new and everlasting covenant, and she be with another man, she has committed adultery.

 And if her husband be with another woman, and he was under a vow, he hath broken his vow and hath committed adultery.

 And if she hath not committed adultery, but is innocent and hath not broken her vow, and she knoweth it, and I reveal it unto you, my servant Joseph, then shall you have power, by the power of my Holy Priesthood, to take her and give her unto him that hath not committed adultery but hath been faithful; for he shall be made ruler over many.

 For I have conferred upon you the keys and power of the priesthood, wherein I restore all things, and make known unto you all things in due time.
 And verily, verily, I say unto you, that whatsoever you seal on earth shall be sealed in heaven; and whatsoever you bind on earth, in my name and by my word, saith the Lord, it shall be eternally bound in the heavens; and whosesoever sins you remit on earth shall be remitted eternally in the heavens; and whosesoever sins you retain on earth shall be retained in heaven.

 And again, verily I say, whomsoever you bless I will bless, and whomsoever you curse I will curse, saith the Lord; for I, the Lord, am thy God.

 And again, verily I say unto you, my servant Joseph, that whatsoever you give on earth, and to whomsoever you give any one on earth, by my word and according to my law, it shall be visited with blessings and not cursings, and with my power, saith the Lord, and shall be without condemnation on earth and in heaven.

 For I am the Lord thy God, and will be with thee even unto the end of the world, and through all eternity; for verily I seal upon you your exaltation, and prepare a throne for you in the kingdom of my Father, with Abraham your father.

 Behold, I have seen your sacrifices, and will forgive all your sins; I have seen your sacrifices in obedience to that which I have told you. Go, therefore, and I make a way for your escape, as I accepted the offering of Abraham of his son Isaac.

 Verily, I say unto you: A commandment I give unto mine handmaid, Emma Smith, your wife, whom I have given unto you, that she stay herself and partake not of that which I commanded you to offer unto her; for I did it, saith the Lord, to prove you all, as I did Abraham, and that I might require an offering at your hand, by covenant and sacrifice.

 And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, receive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph, and who are virtuous and pure before me; and those who are not pure, and have said they were pure, shall be destroyed, saith the Lord God.

 For I am the Lord thy God, and ye shall obey my voice; and I give unto my servant Joseph that he shall be made ruler over many things; for he hath been faithful over a few things, and from henceforth I will strengthen him.

 And I command mine handmaid, Emma Smith, to abide and cleave unto my servant Joseph, and to none else. But if she will not abide this commandment she shall be destroyed, saith the Lord; for I am the Lord thy God, and will destroy her if she abide not in my law.

 But if she will not abide this commandment, then shall my servant Joseph do all things for her, even as he hath said; and I will bless him and multiply him and give unto him an hundredfold in this world, of fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters, houses and lands, wives and children, and crowns of eternal lives in the eternal worlds.

 And again, verily I say, let mine handmaid forgive my servant Joseph his trespasses; and then shall she be forgiven her trespasses, wherein she has trespassed against me; and I, the Lord thy God, will bless her, and multiply her, and make her heart to rejoice.

 And again, I say, let not my servant Joseph put his property out of his hands, lest an enemy come and destroy him; for Satan seeketh to destroy; for I am the Lord thy God, and he is my servant; and behold, and lo, I am with him, as I was with Abraham, thy father, even unto his exaltation and glory.

 Now, as touching the law of the priesthood, there are many things pertaining thereunto.

 Verily, if a man be called of my Father, as was Aaron, by mine own voice, and by the voice of him that sent me, and I have endowed him with the keys of the power of this priesthood, if he do anything in my name, and according to my law and by my word, he will not commit sin, and I will justify him.

 Let no one, therefore, set on my servant Joseph; for I will justify him; for he shall do the sacrifice which I require at his hands for his transgressions, saith the Lord your God.

 And again, as pertaining to the law of the priesthood—if any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse another, and the first give her consent, and if he espouse the second, and they are virgins, and have vowed to no other man, then is he justified; he cannot commit adultery for they are given unto him; for he cannot commit adultery with that that belongeth unto him and to no one else.

 And if he have ten virgins given unto him by this law, he cannot commit adultery, for they belong to him, and they are given unto him; therefore is he justified.

 But if one or either of the ten virgins, after she is espoused, shall be with another man, she has committed adultery, and shall be destroyed; for they are given unto him to multiply and replenish the earth, according to my commandment, and to fulfil the promise which was given by my Father before the foundation of the world, and for their exaltation in the eternal worlds, that they may bear the souls of men; for herein is the work of my Father continued, that he may be glorified.

 And again, verily, verily, I say unto you, if any man have a wife, who holds the keys of this power, and he teaches unto her the law of my priesthood, as pertaining to these things, then shall she believe and administer unto him, or she shall be destroyed, saith the Lord your God; for I will destroy her; for I will magnify my name upon all those who receive and abide in my law.

 Therefore, it shall be lawful in me, if she receive not this law, for him to receive all things whatsoever I, the Lord his God, will give unto him, because she did not believe and administer unto him according to my word; and she then becomes the transgressor; and he is exempt from the law of Sarah, who administered unto Abraham according to the law when I commanded Abraham to take Hagar to wife. Not according to MY bible: it was SARI's idea!!

 And now, as pertaining to this law, verily, verily, I say unto you, I will reveal more unto you, hereafter; therefore, let this suffice for the present. Behold, I am Alpha and Omega. Amen.
October 6, 1890
 
 
 
 
OFFICIAL DECLARATION—1

To Whom It May Concern:

Press dispatches having been sent for political purposes, from Salt Lake City, which have been widely published, to the effect that the Utah Commission, in their recent report to the Secretary of the Interior, allege that plural marriages are still being solemnized and that forty or more such marriages have been contracted in Utah since last June or during the past year, also that in public discourses the leaders of the Church have taught, encouraged and urged the continuance of the practice of polygamy—

I, therefore, as President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, do hereby, in the most solemn manner, declare that these charges are false. We are not teaching polygamy or plural marriage, nor permitting any person to enter into its practice, and I deny that either forty or any other number of plural marriages have during that period been solemnized in our Temples or in any other place in the Territory.

One case has been reported, in which the parties allege that the marriage was performed in the Endowment House, in Salt Lake City, in the Spring of 1889, but I have not been able to learn who performed the ceremony; whatever was done in this matter was without my knowledge. In consequence of this alleged occurrence the Endowment House was, by my instructions, taken down without delay.

Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriages, which laws have been pronounced constitutional by the court of last resort, I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws, and to use my influence with the members of the Church over which I preside to have them do likewise.

There is nothing in my teachings to the Church or in those of my associates, during the time specified, which can be reasonably construed to inculcate or encourage polygamy; and when any Elder of the Church has used language which appeared to convey any such teaching, he has been promptly reproved. And I now publicly declare that my advice to the Latter-day Saints is to refrain from contracting any marriage forbidden by the law of the land.

WILFORD WOODRUFF
President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

 
 
 
 
 
 



President Lorenzo Snow offered the following:

“I move that, recognizing Wilford Woodruff as the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and the only man on the earth at the present time who holds the keys of the sealing ordinances, we consider him fully authorized by virtue of his position to issue the Manifesto which has been read in our hearing, and which is dated September 24th, 1890, and that as a Church in General Conference assembled, we accept his declaration concerning plural marriages as authoritative and binding.”

The vote to sustain the foregoing motion was unanimous.

Salt Lake City, Utah, October 6, 1890.


EXCERPTS FROM THREE ADDRESSES BY
PRESIDENT WILFORD WOODRUFF
REGARDING THE MANIFESTO


The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the programme. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that, the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty. (Sixty-first Semiannual General Conference of the Church, Monday, October 6, 1890, Salt Lake City, Utah. Reported in Deseret Evening News, October 11, 1890, p. 2.)

It matters not who lives or who dies, or who is called to lead this Church, they have got to lead it by the inspiration of Almighty God. If they do not do it that way, they cannot do it at all. . . .

I have had some revelations of late, and very important ones to me, and I will tell you what the Lord has said to me. Let me bring your minds to what is termed the manifesto. . . .

The Lord has told me to ask the Latter-day Saints a question, and He also told me that if they would listen to what I said to them and answer the question put to them, by the Spirit and power of God, they would all answer alike, and they would all believe alike with regard to this matter.

The question is this: Which is the wisest course for the Latter-day Saints to pursue—to continue to attempt to practice plural marriage, with the laws of the nation against it and the opposition of sixty millions of people, and at the cost of the confiscation and loss of all the Temples, and the stopping of all the ordinances therein, both for the living and the dead, and the imprisonment of the First Presidency and Twelve and the heads of families in the Church, and the confiscation of personal property of the people (all of which of themselves would stop the practice); or, after doing and suffering what we have through our adherence to this principle to cease the practice and submit to the law, and through doing so leave the Prophets, Apostles and fathers at home, so that they can instruct the people and attend to the duties of the Church, and also leave the Temples in the hands of the Saints, so that they can attend to the ordinances of the Gospel, both for the living and the dead?

The Lord showed me by vision and revelation exactly what would take place if we did not stop this practice. If we had not stopped it, you would have had no use for . . . any of the men in this temple at Logan; for all ordinances would be stopped throughout the land of Zion. Confusion would reign throughout Israel, and many men would be made prisoners. This trouble would have come upon the whole Church, and we should have been compelled to stop the practice. Now, the question is, whether it should be stopped in this manner, or in the way the Lord has manifested to us, and leave our Prophets and Apostles and fathers free men, and the temples in the hands of the people, so that the dead may be redeemed. A large number has already been delivered from the prison house in the spirit world by this people, and shall the work go on or stop? This is the question I lay before the Latter-day Saints. You have to judge for yourselves. I want you to answer it for yourselves. I shall not answer it; but I say to you that that is exactly the condition we as a people would have been in had we not taken the course we have.

. . . I saw exactly what would come to pass if there was not something done. I have had this spirit upon me for a long time. But I want to say this: I should have let all the temples go out of our hands; I should have gone to prison myself, and let every other man go there, had not the God of heaven commanded me to do what I did do; and when the hour came that I was commanded to do that, it was all clear to me. I went before the Lord, and I wrote what the Lord told me to write. . . .

I leave this with you, for you to contemplate and consider. The Lord is at work with us. (Cache Stake Conference, Logan, Utah, Sunday, November 1, 1891. Reported in Deseret Weekly, November 14, 1891.)

Now I will tell you what was manifested to me and what the Son of God performed in this thing. . . . All these things would have come to pass, as God Almighty lives, had not that Manifesto been given. Therefore, the Son of God felt disposed to have that thing presented to the Church and to the world for purposes in his own mind. The Lord had decreed the establishment of Zion. He had decreed the finishing of this temple. He had decreed that the salvation of the living and the dead should be given in these valleys of the mountains. And Almighty God decreed that the Devil should not thwart it. If you can understand that, that is a key to it. (From a discourse at the sixth session of the dedication of the Salt Lake Temple, April 1893. Typescript of Dedicatory Services, Archives, Church Historical Department, Salt Lake City, Utah.)

 
The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray.
Golly!  This would have sure been nice if GOD had treated the JEWS the same way!
 
HE must not have realized that you guys HAD a bible, or HE would not have repeated all the NT verses in the D&C's!

What part of "Judge for yourself" do YOU fail to understand?
198 posted on 01/28/2003 3:00:31 AM PST by Elsie (I trust in Jesus.... THOUSANDS OF EXISTING MANUSCRIPTS speak of Him!)
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To: restornu
I don't know how many time the LDS have told you we do NOT think about being god or godess even in the Temple.

Since you are up so early Rest, you can read about these things for your morning devotions -- in your OWN 'Scriptures'!


I just posted some above^
199 posted on 01/28/2003 3:03:20 AM PST by Elsie (I trust in Jesus.... THOUSANDS OF EXISTING MANUSCRIPTS speak of Him!)
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To: Illbay; CARepubGal
So you don't help non-Mormons?



200 posted on 01/28/2003 3:44:39 AM PST by Wrigley
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