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Utah Baby Names (That distinctive name that says, "I'm Mormon.")
The Utah Baby Namer ^ | Wes and Cari Clark

Posted on 01/24/2003 4:41:20 PM PST by A.J.Armitage

What's In a (Utah) Name?

by Cari Bilyeu Clark


When my husband and I moved from Utah to the Washington, D.C. area seventeen years ago, we knew nothing of the inadvertent legacy we carried from our four years in Utah. Shortly after we arrived in our new home, we saw a television commercial for a local grocery store chain. The spokeswoman's name was the unusual "Odonna." "She's gotta be from Utah," I said to my husband. "That's a Utah name if I ever heard one."

We eventually learned that Odonna was, indeed, Utah born and bred.

It dawned on us that many names we'd heard during our college careers, and found only mildly remarkable, were indeed unique to the Utah Mormon culture. Thus began our quest to define what makes some names singularly Utahn, and what sets them apart from ethnic names with roots in other cultures, such as Juanita or Shoshanna; or African-American names such as Tawanda and Shaquille; or the newly common, soap-operaesque handles such as Skylar, Tiffany, Raven, and Adrienne. There's a difference, and it's not just the obviously Mormon scriptural names like Mahonri or Nephi or Moroni. Often identifying a Utah name is a gut feeling akin to Justice Potter Stewart's definition of pornography: you know it when you see it.

The quintessential Utah name often has a French-sounding prefix such as Le-, La-, Ne-, or Va-. Often names appear to have genesis in the combined names of the parents--Veradeane or GlenDora, for example. Related is the practice of feminizing the father's name--as in Vonda (dad is Vaughan) or Danetta. Others, such as Snell or Houser, appear to be surnames called into service as first names.

Related is the curious tendency, more common in Utah than elsewhere, for men (women do not seem to do this) to use the first initial, then the full middle name as the given name, such as L. Flake Roberts, who ran for office in Utah County when we lived there. (Come on, you've noticed this habit among the general authorities of the LDS church!) Besides puzzling over why someone would want to be known as "Flake," it makes one wonder just what the "L" stands for.

[Hmmmm. Where have we heard about that before? --A.J.]

So my husband and I entertained ourselves by collecting the often bizarre names we found in Utah publications (including the obituaries, which indicates that this is not a recent fad) and of Utah natives we met. We compiled a list and shared it with our friends, who often as not had a few more to add. We really hit a bonanza when one woman shared our observations with her mother, who worked at a Utah bank and had access to lots of names. She started her own list and began sending the names to us. (My personal favorite, LaNondus, came from this source.) Another friend told us of a set of sisters, all of whose names began with "Ja."

Once my husband had Internet access, he collected more names and corresponded with another couple who amused themselves the same way. They made cleverly categorized lists: "The ward choir director's daughters: LaVoice, Choral, Audia."

It makes you wonder what some parents were thinking when, for instance, they named their baby girl Lanae (la-nay)--and she unfortunately ended up with a big nose (le nez [la-nay] in French means "the nose"). Or the girl named M'Lu--are clever wags endlessly asking her to skip to it? And how the heck do people with apostrophes in their names fill out computerized forms? There's no apostrophe space. The guy I really pity, though, is the one saddled with the unfortunate moniker, Rube.

Of course, parents cannot predict what new interpretations the marketplace will bring to the names they lovingly bestow on their offspring. I once worked at a company which had dealings with a woman named LaPriel (pronounced la-prell). When I told my former roommate about this inexplicable first name, she sardonically replied, "What's her sister's name--LaTegrin?"

With the generally larger-than-average family, often saddled with the very ordinary surnames Smith, Johnson, or Young, it's not surprising that many Utah parents look for unique given names for their children. When you throw in the reverence for family and ancestors forwarded by the LDS Church, it seems inevitable that someone would end up with LaEarl, KDell, Arnolene or Hariella.

Some names, though, seem to defy description--if not pronunciation. While pride of place may have spawned Utahna, how did somebody come up with Wealtha? And while Lloydine's genesis seems plausible, how on earth were Printha or Noy coined? And I have no idea what constitutes the correct pronunciation for Kairle or Tawhnye. (I suspect they may be wildly creative spellings of Carol and Tonya.)

Perhaps the following list (by no means comprehensive) will amuse you. Perhaps it will offend you. Perhaps you will find your name, or the name of a relative, on it. Or perhaps you will be so enchanted by a particular name that you'll want to bestow it upon one of your own offspring. If that is your plan, first do this: go to the back door, fling it open and yell the name at the top of your lungs six or eight times, because that's how it's going to be heard for the next eighteen years. And remember, when little Wynante (boy or girl, you choose) grows up, you'll have to live with the consequences.




The Cream of the Crop

The Clarks' Favorite Utah Names

Updated 24 January 2003


The new parents couldn't be happier: Gladell & Delightra (sisters), Luvit, Delecta, Delite, Joyette, Joi, Joyia, Joyellen, Joycell, Hallah Lujah [How about Hallah Back Y'all? --A.J.], Bliss, Joyanne

Cleanliness is next to Godliness: Zestpoole, Sparkle

The Ward Choir Director's Daughters: Aria, Audia, Aurel, Choral, LaVoice, Tonilee, Capella, Chime, Rocksan Violin

Jewels every one: Amulet, Pearlette, Pearlene, Emerald, JewlyAnn, Ahmre Jade, Treasure Tonya, Turquoise Nova, Sequin, Amethist.

Girls you just know have big, floofy hair: Blondeen, Rayette, Faundaree, Shazette, Shasheena, Honilynn, Najestica, Teasa, Shazzanna, Pluma, Bobbette, Blonda, Breezy, Wenderella, Aquanetta, Brinderella, Dazzlyn

Maybe they're in the Klingon Ward: Tchae, Xko, Corx, G'ni, Vvhs, Garn, Ka, Deauxti, Xymoya, Sha'Kira [Her older sister is called Macare'na.], Zy, Xela, Tscharna, Nivek, Zon'tl, Zagg, Xan, Judziah Datz (a female, named after a character in Star Trek), K'lar (ditto), Jarna Nazhalena, Chod, Xarek, Grik, Stod, T'Shara, Tral, Sherik, Curg

[I am Krang the Merciless!! And I'm a Mormon!]

The Worth of a Soul: Cashley

Astronomical: LeVoid, Sunan, Moonyene, Starlene, Sunelly, Luna, Lunia, Solinda, Sunirae, Staryl, Marandastarr, Season, Aries, Starlyn, Cressent, Celestial Starr, Summerlyn, Astrolena

Could only be LDS: Cumorah Hill, Liahonna, Ensign, Nauvoo, Kirtland, Templa, Templer, Tempella, Tempalia, Ziona, Deseret (and Desereta), Tabernacle, Woodruff, Pratt, Tithing, Quorum, Helamans Warrior, Iron Rod, Morona, Manti, Stripling, Nephi Courage, Celestial Glory, Celestian, Brighaminie, Zion, Xione (pronounced "zion")

Parents were BYU math majors: Alpha Mae, Seven, Seavenly, Twenty, Prime, Omega Lee, Jennyfivetina, Tenna [Mormon porn star: Tenna Tameson.], Elevena, Ninea, Eighta

[How would you like to be named after your birth order?]

You can name a kid this, but you shouldn't ingest it: Cola, Vinyl, Orlon, Chlorine, Clorene, Florene, Florine, Lexann, Dow, Tide, Downy, Codiene, Daquari, DeCon, Starbuck, Crayon, Treasure Cocaine

[Classy. Real classy.]

Names inspired by the family car: Audi, Fairlene, Celecta, Pontiac, Vonda, Vonza, Auto, Cherokee, Lexus, Porsche, Skylark, Truckston, Avis, Chevrollette, Chevonne, Caprice, Dodge

["Honey, nothing says class like Lexus. Now go make some jello."]

Wishful thinking: Darlin', Courage, Winsome, Justan Tru, Pictorianna, Paradise Sunrise, Sage, Angelic, Breed, Godlove, Myrth, LaVirgin, DeFonda Virtue, Chastice, Normalene, Lovie Angel, Precious Blessing, Heavenly Melanie, Glee, Mormon Beauty, Pledger, Jentill, Devota, Coy, Fondd, Bridella, Verna Noall, Vervine, Viva, Golden Noble, MarVel, MemRee, Brunette, Merrily, Merry Ann, Celestial, Cherrish, Kash, Cashelle, Teton, Forever, Luvit, Mystiq, Worthy, Truly, Pleasant, Speedy, Hereditary, Shrudilee, Halo, Gentry, Truthanne, Finita, Mavryck, Amen, Merrijane, Marvelous Man.

Dad's hobby is obvious: Justa Cowgirl, Rode O, Hazer, Durango, Rifle, Laker, Jazz, Truck. Granite, Garnet, Gneiss (and other sisters with rock names beginning with “G.”)

Conversational: Whisper, Chat

Indications of possible birthplace: Arizonia, Floria, Montania, Utah, Utahna, Idahana, Idaho, Mauntana [Flunk spelling, name you kid Mauntana. Study hard!], Michigan, Nevadna, Okla, Vermont, Wyoming, Wyoma, Cache, Jordana, Payson, Vernal, Boise, Brookelynn, Lexington, Demoyn, Fredonia, Leremy, Platte, Salina, Seattle, Takoma, Tulsa, Tustin, Vail, Lundyn, Londyn, Irelynd, Irelan, Madrid, Manila, Cairo, Damascus, Tyre, Desert, Shahara, Trinidad, Houston, Cachelyn, D'Asia, Edon, Takoda, Orem, Shannon doah, Davenport Shore

No man (or woman) is an island - exceptions: Oahu, Irlanda, Tonga, SeaBreaze, Tiki Lou

Possible conception placenames: Hilton, Nafeteria, Bridges, Castle

Indications of possible birthdates: Juneth, Junola, LaJune, Julyn, Halloween, Novella, Summerisa, Winnter, Christmas Holiday, Merrienoel, Kris Miss, Tuesdee, Aprella

The day dawn is breaking: Dawnae, Dawnia, Dawnel, Dawnelle, Dawnene, Dawnalyn, Dawnette, Karadawn, RaDawn, Keturah Dawn, SheriDawn, LuDawn, LaDawn, Le Dawn, El Dawn, Dawnetta, Dawnese, Mistidawn, Berva Dawn, Celestial Dawn, Bodawn, Honey Dawn, Sunrise, Dawny, Yodawn, Dawnika, Dawnray, Denverly Dawn, Sunni Dawn, Dusty Dawn, Taradawn, Twyla Dawn, Georgia Dawn, Iva Dawn, Marva Dawn

Dad was a plumber: Valva, BeDae, Latrina, La Jonne, Digger

Dad worked for the postal service: Mailene

Dad's a lawyer: Justicia

Dad had a hernia: Truss

Less is more: La, Oa, NB, T, M, Q, JJ

I hope the computer will accept apostrophes in the name fields: D'Ann, D'Aun, D'Bora, D'Dee, D'Elise, D'Loaf, D'Shara, E'all, L'Deane, L'orL, Ja'mon, J'Costa, J'dean, J'Leen, J'net, J'Shara, J'Vonna, La'Donis, Me'shell, M'Jean, M'Kaaylie, M'Kenna, Mi'Lara, M'Lisa, M'Liss, M'Lu, M'Recia, O'lea, R'dell, R'lene, Shan'l, Young'n, B'andra, De'lys, D'Dree

["And the called her... O'Lestra. She had the runs a lot."]

Future names of prescriptions: Lyravin, Monalaine, Nyleen, Merlaine, Monease, Naquel, Ronalene, Nylan, Rolayne, Tyron, Lexine, Lyrin, Mikatin, Artax, Xtrin, Tylene, Qedrin, Tamrin, Denilyn, Kevrin, Nicolin, Xylan, Tolex, Zylan, Daycal, Falycid, Zerin, Davon, Sydal

Wow! What a Babe!: Wavie, Zhalore, LaTanna, Tressa, LaDreama, Amourette

Fluid-related: Thermos, Soda, Logan River, Jordan River, Susquehannah, Canteen

When simple alphabetic characters aren't enough: K-8 (pronounced "Kate," I guess)

[Kids: that's happens when you're illiterate. Stay in school!]

Politically incorrect: Sambo, Aryion

[Maybe they weren't thinking "Aryan", but "Arian". Heretics gotta stick together!]

Heard chanted in the Salt Lake airport: Ara-Om

Has food connotations: Dianarea, Dicey, Vindalu, Blenda, Strawberry, Sugarlee, Beena, Pork Chop, Sesami, Jar, Karmel, Kresent, TaffiLyn, Chipo

Had breathing problems in the hospital nursery: Azure, Syrullean

You might find in a forest: Wrendie, Jilbear, Timber, Oaks, Pixie, LaFawnduh, Fawn-Dew, Ember, Bird, Magpie, Serenity Fawn, Paradi, L'Aire, Brookelle, Sylvan, Fawna, Lawn, Rain, Gazelle, El Fawn ["El" makes it masculine, "Fawn" makes it girly-poofy. El Fawn: expressing pride from Salt Lake City to San Francisco.], Aspen, Acacia, Panda, Briar, Rhodendra, Fernnola, Birdene, Hummingbird, Disney, Chinchilla Zest, Haven, Glade

No doubt about it, this kid's in charge: Rexina, Rexine, Queenola, Dominee, Ruger, Messiah Angel, Oden, RexDee, Navy, Jentry, Czar, LeeMaster, Quintessa, Marquessa, Leviathan, Captain.

Smells: Cachet, Reaka, Violeet, Avon, Budla

Faux ethnic: Laddie, Walkasheaqua, Bsjonet, Hishla, Chilnecha, Forthilda, Kaltighanna, Alainka, Chip-wa, Pawnece America, Zem Saxon, O'Ann, WaThene, Sheighlagh, Valliere

Commemorating something or another: Welcome Exile, Confederate American, Southern Justice, Liberty Lulu, Young Elizabeth, Genesis, MistiNoele, Imagine, Thankful Flood, Friends Forsaken, Joyous Noel, Tennyson, Knight Train, Miracles Precious One, Sunday's Hoseana, Disney, Blessing Ream, Stormy Shepherd, Denim Levi, Vernal Independence, Sincere Devotion, Mothers, Elvoid, Noah-Lot, Mormon Miracles, MyLae, Nightrain Lane, Zion Anakin, Jeopardee, Statehood, Denim Levi

Let's hope not: Rube, Sleeza, Nymphus, Golden P., Burns, Hydra, Non, Malis, Talon, Beefea, Patches, Storm, Slayer, Sterile, Slaughter, Jynx, Hyde, Prynne, StormiAnn, Sham, Apathy, DeRail, Dull, Gamble

In a class of their own (In fact, I'm not sure I believe these but we asked for details and a confirmation and got convincing replies, so here they are): NaLa'DeLuhRay, Phakelikaydenicia, Zaragrunudgeyon ("Zarg," for short), Jennyfivetina, Tiarrhea, Nudity, VulvaMae, DaLinda LaDale, Tugdick, Saunsceneyouray, and, yes... Clitoris.

["Well, it sounded pretty when the doctor said it, and my wife Placenta likes it."]

Teletubbies: Laalaa

Guaranteed to get last place on our list (or anyone else's): ZZkora

I can't think of anything clever to write but these must be mentioned: Barbeli, Revo Cram, Feramorz, Glint, LaNondus, Wynante, Camera, Lecoya, AureJudd, NaNon, Bimberly, DavidO, Leumas ("Samuel" backwards), Ralphene, Shimber, T-vive, Synthi, CoJane, Nona-rene, Gaylawn, Txanton, LaZello, Daycal, Sancie D'Wan, RaVoe, Zenus, Gatobon, LaEarl, Trystal, AndiOdette, Serenity-Tabitha-Ann, Alexavier, X Y Zella, Bonquisha, Musser Cenia, Jubeltine, Oryeon, Shlori, Danlonaga, Zedwain, Casualeen, Young'n, Shambertine Crille, Canon, Malique, LeeWitt, Jazzeri, DeRaunz, Teru, Aaro, Divid, Cimemthymia, LaDonnaJosephrania, LaDeeDee, deRalph, MaddLynAlain, Vyquetoriya, Falycid, Rophis, Mick BonScott, Kaysional Tempest, Darianlelo, DeLaVerne, BoChe', Minnet, Kandle, Seena Tawnya, Dwodger, J Thoral, Xanderrick, Abcde, KNikkol, Demeatrice, LLean Shanalyn, Scytha Solena, HiDee


TOPICS: Humor; Other non-Christian
KEYWORDS:
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To: Elsie
I am sure when that revelation came out it was quite awakening to know more of who we are! An like new imformation people do engage in wonderment. Yet we are here in this world and have a lot of mundane things to do which dominates out thoughts. For much work here mush bedone and little to entertain such thoughts!

I know when I first learn of this I was beyond words, yet it was when I spoke to other saints in the church about it they knew, but the immediate concerns was earning a living, paying bills, rasing family, studying for school etc. So you see for the regulars they had their priority in order.

The main focus for the LDS is "Keeping the Lords Commandments", doing home teaching,honoring callings and helping the orphans, widows, and elderly and many other charities!

Too many of you hear this is wild news and you don't how to properly process this knowledge. because you are preoccupied with this news you think the rest the LDS are.

I would look to the NWO and worry about their version of it, instead of what Jesus Christ Saints are doing!

201 posted on 01/28/2003 4:18:52 AM PST by restornu (I am a child of God:)
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To: Wrigley; Illbay; Grig; HarryDunne
So you don't help non-Mormons?

What do you mean by this the polgamist that were excommunicated from the church? or others who do not really know us? Some might think they know us by the poison water, yet they did not learn it from the LDS!

Wrigely that was and open ended question the kind like "do you still beat your wife no matter how you answer it stinks! but than wrigley might raise skunks?

The unsanciton polgamist need to repent!

They have the knowledge and like so many with knowledge doing it their way!

Wrigley you are famous looking for the sting and sarcasm retorts! that why I alkaline my diet so I can fend off you Acid Spirit:)

202 posted on 01/28/2003 4:35:06 AM PST by restornu (I am a child of God:)
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To: restornu; Wrigley; Illbay; Grig; HarryDunne; RnMomof7; scripter; CARepubGal; White Mountain; ...
Does every LDS-related thread degenerate to an anti-Mormon free-for-all? Even a thread about Utah Baby Names?!

Things need to change around here. There should be no place on this site for (fill in religion here)-bashing.

203 posted on 01/28/2003 6:09:14 AM PST by HarryDunne
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To: HarryDunne
HD they can't help it they DRANK from satan Well, and now all they spew is anti-LDS or knock the Church of Jesus Christ!
204 posted on 01/28/2003 6:17:52 AM PST by restornu (I am a child of God:)
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To: drstevej
Excellent. But it's logical and factual, so it will fall on dead ears.

Dan

205 posted on 01/28/2003 6:35:41 AM PST by BibChr (if your bosom burns, you'd better turn -- away!)
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To: Grig; drstevej
Grig's count: 0+0+0+0+0=0

Still standing untouched:

1. Massive numbers of gods != one God

2. Grace + Faith + Works != by grace alone through faith alone

Dan
206 posted on 01/28/2003 6:51:18 AM PST by BibChr (if your bosom burns, your chest is on fire! Run!!!)
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To: restornu; drstevej
Blah blah blah.

And yet, the facts still stand:

Many gods != one God

The faith that affirms the former != the faith that affirms the latter

Mormonism != Biblical faith

Dan

PS -- this is how you discuss facts, rather than just sniping. Try it sometime. Tell Grig how. Fun and profitable.
207 posted on 01/28/2003 6:55:05 AM PST by BibChr (if your bosom burns, your chest is on fire! Run!!!)
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To: Elsie; scripter; RnMomof7; HarryDunne; White Mountain; CubicleGuy; Utah Girl; rising tide; Grig; ...
BTW why you foolish folks stand around mocking this knowledge.

Well got news for you when Lucifer knew this knowledge he jump on it, maybe too soon BEFORE He got his physical body here on earth and than the ressurected one. But he did NOT KEEP his 1st estate so he lost all togather and now a spirit that yanks the chains of the gullible of those who want ot believe a god that IS only a spirit NOT ressurected one OF FLESH AND BONE!

Now the invisible government and the NWO crowd are not that guillble they are using the knowledge their ancestor unsruped long long ago in each dispensation*, and have been with each generation setting their knowledge in motion!

It should be interesting in the furture how many mockers get it or parish!

*That is why there are Dispensations for in previous ones, The Word, Covenants & Doctrines and Statutes; were taken from the children of God. an in each dispensation the Lord would restore it and than it would vanish again!

Now all you got from Pagans and likewise is the NICENE CREED! That is a dollard will get you a cup of coffee!:)You only have a half of loaf of truth!

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints have the Fulness of the Gospel!

208 posted on 01/28/2003 6:58:31 AM PST by restornu (I am a child of God:)
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To: restornu
Hardly.

I read Illbay's comment as "since they are not Mormons they won't get any help."

Do the Mormons help those who are not Mormons?
209 posted on 01/28/2003 7:41:06 AM PST by Wrigley
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To: drstevej
It seems I may not have been clear enough because you're still missing the point.

The point isn't whether you consider Mormonism valid as a 'flavor' of Christianity, but that someone adhering to a religious viewpoint, whether Christian or not, isn't in a particularly good position to start criticizing the viewpoint of another adherent to a different religion based on logic. One could easily subsitute Hindu for Mormon, the effect would be the same.

Why shouldn't logic play a part in the assessment? Why shouldn't biblical assessment be done?

I agree with the above completely, and have not argued otherwise.

I say, be noble and compare Joseph Smith and Bringem Young to the Bible and let the chips fall where they may. Acst 17:11.

That's nice, but comparing their veracity relative to each other is not what I was talking about. Comparing illogic to illogic, however, only results in more illogic.

210 posted on 01/28/2003 8:45:06 AM PST by Pahuanui
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To: Elsie
"It is lawful for a man to have only one wife, unless the Lord commands otherwise"

Really have a hard time getting that through your head, don't you.

"(or maybe just 47 years!)"

No, we still belive that it is lawful for a man to have only one wife, unless the Lord commands otherwise. At this time the Lord does not command otherwise, so we continue to obey.

"Abraham was commanded to offer his son Isaac; nevertheless, it was written: Thou shalt not kill. (long after this time...) "

So you think murder was OK with God back then? Or do you think God just forgot to tell anyone not to do it until Moses? Before you answer, you might want to check what Noah was preaching in Gen 9:6.

"and it was accounted unto him for righteousness, (no it wasn't!!! read Hebrews 11th chapter!!) "

I see nothing in that chapter that says it was accounted as sin to him. If you want to assume that Heb 11 lists every righteous action of his life, then you must think he sure didn't do much all his long life.

As for OD1, you forgot to bold "I saw exactly what would come to pass if there was not something done. I have had this spirit upon me for a long time. But I want to say this: I should have let all the temples go out of our hands; I should have gone to prison myself, and let every other man go there, had not the God of heaven commanded me to do what I did do; and when the hour came that I was commanded to do that, it was all clear to me. I went before the Lord, and I wrote what the Lord told me to write [ie: OD1]."

"This would have sure been nice if GOD had treated the JEWS the same way!"

So, what prophet of God do you think mislead the Jews?

"What part of "Judge for yourself" do YOU fail to understand?"

No part at all, that quote is part of the comments made ABOUT the declaration, not the declaration itself. He is trying to get the Saints to understand why God revealed the declaration rather than called for open civil disobedience. What part of "I wrote what the Lord told me to write" don't you get?
211 posted on 01/28/2003 8:45:43 AM PST by Grig
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To: HarryDunne
"Does every LDS-related thread degenerate to an anti-Mormon free-for-all? Even a thread about Utah Baby Names?!"

Pretty sad isn't it. It seems more and more likely to me that their obsesives attacking at any excuse is a symptom of some kind of personality disorder.
212 posted on 01/28/2003 8:52:02 AM PST by Grig
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To: Wrigley
Yes, we do help any in need. One such endeavor is the Humanitarian Center. Each LDS ward has a couple of people assigned to humanitarian efforts. These efforts range from making lap quilts for the police to give to children who need them when going into a foster situation to making baby kits to send to babies either in the US or overseas. I knit bandages for those who suffer from leprosy (the bandages can range in size from 4 feet to 7 feet, so I only get a few done a year.) One other project I am aware of was done in my ward, we were asked to go through our closets to see what we could donate for professional working clothes to an abused woman's shelter. We all have outfits that we're going to fit in again "someday", that are in great condition just hanging in our closets. It was wonderful to see the overwhelming response from the women who donated, and those who received.

For those who want to know more about the Humanitarian Effort, go to Humanitarian Services. The purpose of Humanitarian Services is "to help children and families of all nationalities and religions by relieving suffering, helping people care for themselves, and providing opportunities for service." We can help locally or in a national effort or internationally. We are counselled to be aware of the needs first in our own families, then in our neighborhoods, communities, etc. "...Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me."

213 posted on 01/28/2003 9:28:10 AM PST by Utah Girl (Here I come to save the day, Mighty Mouse is on his way!!!)
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To: BibChr
"this is how you discuss facts,"

By tossing straw men around? No, that is not discussing facts at all. I guess you just don't have a clue what I mean by straw man, so allow me to inform you:

(from http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/) The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. This sort of "reasoning" has the following pattern:
Person A has position X.
Person B presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X).
Person B attacks position Y.
Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed.
This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because attacking a distorted version of a position simply does not constitute an attack on the position itself. One might as well expect an attack on a poor drawing of a person to hurt the person.

So you are there thowing out a bunch of Y's, but when anyone tells you Y is wrong and lets you know what X is, you call them dishonest or just ignore it and go back to Y. Attempting to discuss the facts under these conditions is pointless so I won't be joining your silly game.

Instead I'll just enjoy denying you the fight you are spoiling to use for an ego trip. So go ahead, invent whatever score you want and post it as much as you like. It makes me laugh to see you act like that and have no clue how silly you appear.

Anyone who takes the time to read the long exchange between scripter and myself will see I'm quite able and willing to engage in reasoned discussion with reasonable people. I just don't consider you reasonable, not by a long shot.
214 posted on 01/28/2003 9:29:23 AM PST by Grig
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To: Grig
0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 0

And facts still stand:

Many gods != one God

The faith that affirms the former != the faith that affirms the latter

Mormonism != Biblical faith

Dan
215 posted on 01/28/2003 9:36:57 AM PST by BibChr (not the issue)
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To: Wrigley
"I read Illbay's comment as "since they are not Mormons they won't get any help." Do the Mormons help those who are not Mormons?"

Yes they do. Illbay was incorrect. Both with disaster relief and with assistance done localy through the Bishop, membership is not a requirement. Also the specific case in question had nothing to do with providing food and shelter to some poor woman who couldn't afford it, and nowhere does it say the Bishop said she didn't qualify. She asked for advise and didn't like the advise she got. Nor does she indicate how well she informed the Bishop of the situation.
216 posted on 01/28/2003 9:38:14 AM PST by Grig
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To: Utah Girl
Excellent.
217 posted on 01/28/2003 10:04:19 AM PST by Wrigley
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To: Grig
Very sad indeed.
218 posted on 01/28/2003 10:13:14 AM PST by HarryDunne
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To: restornu
I would look to the NWO and worry about their version of it, instead of what Jesus Christ Saints are doing!

I'm sorry; but I just CAN'T 'look the other way' while you guys are doing your thing. It's IN your 'scriptures'; therefore, it is TRUE (according to the rules you folks are playing by here in FRland.)


Maybe if we ratchet down the rethoric, we'll find we all have specks in our eyes instead of beams that prohibit us from focusing clearly.
219 posted on 01/28/2003 10:34:27 AM PST by Elsie (I trust in Jesus.... THOUSANDS OF EXISTING MANUSCRIPTS speak of Him!)
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To: HarryDunne
Things need to change around here. There should be no place on this site for (fill in religion here)-bashing. "Did we ever define what BASHING is?", he asked, acidly...........
220 posted on 01/28/2003 10:35:35 AM PST by Elsie (I trust in Jesus.... THOUSANDS OF EXISTING MANUSCRIPTS speak of Him!)
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To: restornu
BTW why you foolish folks stand around mocking this knowledge.

Am I mocking when I cut & paste, FROM YOUR SCRIPTURES, and merely high-light in RED the things you do NOT want to talk about?

221 posted on 01/28/2003 10:38:05 AM PST by Elsie (I trust in Jesus.... THOUSANDS OF EXISTING MANUSCRIPTS speak of Him!)
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To: Wrigley
Do the Mormons help those who are not Mormons?

Only if they are DEAD, Jim!


222 posted on 01/28/2003 10:38:56 AM PST by Elsie (I trust in Jesus.... THOUSANDS OF EXISTING MANUSCRIPTS speak of Him!)
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To: Grig
No part at all, that quote is part of the comments made ABOUT the declaration, not the declaration itself. He is trying to get the Saints to understand why God revealed the declaration rather than called for open civil disobedience. What part of "I wrote what the Lord told me to write" don't you get?
 
This part!-->
 

The Lord has told me to ask the Latter-day Saints a question, and He also told me that if they would listen to what I said to them and answer the question put to them, by the Spirit and power of God, they would all answer alike, and they would all believe alike with regard to this matter.

The question is this: Which is the wisest course for the Latter-day Saints to pursue--to continue to attempt to practice plural marriage, with the laws of the nation against it and the opposition of sixty millions of people, and at the cost of the confiscation and loss of all the Temples, and the stopping of all the ordinances therein, both for the living and the dead, and the imprisonment of the First Presidency and Twelve and the heads of families in the Church, and the confiscation of personal property of the people (all of which of themselves would stop the practice); or, after doing and suffering what we have through our adherence to this principle to cease the practice and submit to the law, and through doing so leave the Prophets, Apostles and fathers at home, so that they can instruct the people and attend to the duties of the Church, and also leave the Temples in the hands of the Saints, so that they can attend to the ordinances of the Gospel, both for the living and the dead?

The Lord showed me by vision and revelation exactly what would take place if we did not stop this practice. If we had not stopped it, you would have had no use for . . . any of the men in this temple at Logan; for all ordinances would be stopped throughout the land of Zion. Confusion would reign throughout Israel, and many men would be made prisoners. This trouble would have come upon the whole Church, and we should have been compelled to stop the practice. Now, the question is, whether it should be stopped in this manner, or in the way the Lord has manifested to us, and leave our Prophets and Apostles and fathers free men, and the temples in the hands of the people, so that the dead may be redeemed. A large number has already been delivered from the prison house in the spirit world by this people, and shall the work go on or stop? This is the question I lay before the Latter-day Saints. You have to judge for yourselves. I want you to answer it for yourselves. I shall not answer it; but I say to you that that is exactly the condition we as a people would have been in had we not taken the course we have.
 
As ANYONE can see, this is ALL ONE BIG CHUNK OF TEXT; starting with GOD ASKING and ending with MAKE UP YOUR OWN MIND.  It that to difficult to understand??
 
To my knowledge, the mind making up line HAS NOT BEEN OVERRULED IN ANY of the LDS' organizational writings.  Each member STILL has to make up their mind, and that is what the renegade Mormon's have done.

"I shall not answer it"; What kind of a 'leader' is this anyway?!

223 posted on 01/28/2003 10:50:12 AM PST by Elsie (I trust in Jesus.... THOUSANDS OF EXISTING MANUSCRIPTS speak of Him!)
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To: Elsie; RnMomof7; Grig; neocon
JimRob had a thread about a year ago called "Re: A word of caution regarding the bashing of Mormons, Catholics, Jews, Calvinists, Baptists.....". A number of people were either banned or had their wrists slapped. I think grig, neocon and RnMomof7 were around at the time. That would be the most definitive reference, if we could find it.
224 posted on 01/28/2003 10:57:54 AM PST by HarryDunne
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To: Utah Girl
thank you for clairifying that, I being in NYC only know from the baby kits, or those sanity kits we made assembled for relief. I know the site you mention is in post 1, but I have not search it yet!
225 posted on 01/28/2003 11:02:04 AM PST by restornu (I am a child of God:)
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To: Wrigley
Actually Mormons will help you if they know you. I had some close Mormon friends for a number of years, and they told me, if I was anywhere in the world and needed help, to call up the local Mormon bishop and mention their names. They will come to you and bring you money, food whatever it is you need. They even do it on occasion for some they don't know, if for instance the police or another church calls. I think they don't publicize it though as too many people take advantage of them.
226 posted on 01/28/2003 11:21:06 AM PST by JesseShurun
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To: restornu
To prepare for tonight's State of the Union Message from our President,
go here........
 
http://www.talltexian.com/AmericaForever/id28.htm

227 posted on 01/28/2003 11:37:00 AM PST by Elsie (I trust in Jesus.... THOUSANDS OF EXISTING MANUSCRIPTS speak of Him!)
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To: HarryDunne
Absolutely.

But on the other hand, please count the number of names involved in the "Mormon bashing."

You'll find it's always the same dozen people or so.

That those dozen have nothing better to do than spend a good part of their waking hours, generating hundreds, even over a thousand replies on a single thread speaks volumes.

Consider the source. Then dismiss it.

228 posted on 01/28/2003 11:47:49 AM PST by Illbay
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To: HarryDunne
N.B. If drstevej, BibChr, RnMomof7, Wrigley, Elsie, and Philip Marlowe dropped dead, there'd BE no more "Mormon-bashing" on FR.
229 posted on 01/28/2003 11:50:20 AM PST by Illbay
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To: JesseShurun
That doesn't surprise me.

Taking the comments at face value here, it sounded just the opposite.
230 posted on 01/28/2003 12:00:13 PM PST by Wrigley
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To: drstevej; BibChr; RnMomof7; Elsie; P-Marlowe; scripter; Jean Chauvin; xzins; CCWoody; the_doc; ...
Info ping.

N.B. If drstevej, BibChr, RnMomof7, Wrigley, Elsie, and Philip Marlowe dropped dead, there'd BE no more "Mormon-bashing" on FR.

Well, isn't this just too cool.

231 posted on 01/28/2003 12:04:18 PM PST by Wrigley
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; JesseShurun
Meant to ping you too.
232 posted on 01/28/2003 12:06:49 PM PST by Wrigley
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To: Illbay
Consider the source. Then dismiss it.

Note to self: Learn it, know it, live it.

233 posted on 01/28/2003 12:08:30 PM PST by HarryDunne
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To: Illbay
Yeah, I'm in the process of going through old threads I have bookmarked and I am repeatedly seeing the usual suspects. Many have been banned, though.
234 posted on 01/28/2003 12:11:24 PM PST by HarryDunne
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To: Wrigley
My life has taken on greater significance. Seriously. This reminds me of one of my favorite little passages:
When Ahab saw Elijah, Ahab said to him, "Is this you, you troubler of Israel?"

He said, "I have not troubled Israel, but you and your father's house have, because you have forsaken the commandments of the LORD and you have followed the Baals!"

Dan

235 posted on 01/28/2003 12:21:26 PM PST by BibChr (troubler of Salt Lake City)
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To: BibChr
Very relevant.
236 posted on 01/28/2003 12:30:46 PM PST by Wrigley
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To: Illbay
Actually, the list of groups to critique is rather large. Last week, Hank Hannegraaf was quoting from the TBN people - lots of them seem to be hip deep in the "cult of Adam" teachings.

237 posted on 01/28/2003 12:36:02 PM PST by fishtank
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To: Illbay
If drstevej, BibChr, RnMomof7, Wrigley, Elsie, and Philip Marlowe dropped dead, there'd BE no more "Mormon-bashing" on FR.

HMmmm.. Why did THIS come to mind........


KJV 1 Kings 19:14-18
14. And he said, I have been very jealous for the Lord God of hosts: because the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away.
15. And the Lord said unto him, Go, return on thy way to the wilderness of Damascus: and when thou comest, anoint Hazael to be king over Syria:
16. And Jehu the son of Nimshi shalt thou anoint to be king over Israel: and Elisha the son of Shaphat of Abelmeholah shalt thou anoint to be prophet in thy room.
17. And it shall come to pass, that him that escapeth the sword of Hazael shall Jehu slay: and him that escapeth from the sword of Jehu shall Elisha slay.
18. Yet I have left me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal, and every mouth which hath not kissed him.
238 posted on 01/28/2003 1:14:06 PM PST by Elsie (I trust in Jesus.... THOUSANDS OF EXISTING MANUSCRIPTS speak of Him!)
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To: Illbay; Wrigley; BibChr; Elsie; P-Marlowe; RnMomof7; CARepubGal; CCWoody; rdb3
***N.B. If drstevej, BibChr, RnMomof7, Wrigley, Elsie, and Philip Marlowe dropped dead,...***

Well, isn't that special? And I'm first on the list. I'm blushing.

***...there'd BE no more "Mormon-bashing" on FR. ***

As long as Mormons pretend Mormonism is Christianity, there will be and should be a response. BTW, if there is any bashing around here it is MormonISM-bashing not Mormon-bashing... significant difference.



239 posted on 01/28/2003 1:14:43 PM PST by drstevej
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To: BibChr

WOW!!

Great minds.......

I replied before I scrolled down to see yours!!
240 posted on 01/28/2003 1:15:56 PM PST by Elsie (I trust in Jesus.... THOUSANDS OF EXISTING MANUSCRIPTS speak of Him!)
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To: Wrigley
Reminds me of a wonderful story I heard in the seventies. It was at a Billy Graham meeting, if I recall correctly. After the meeting, some JW's were hanging around outside to talk with the new converts and win them for the Watchtower. Then a couple of them look up, recognize a familiar figure, cry —

"Ahh! It's Walter Martin!"

— and turn tails and run for the hills.

It may be apocryphal... but it may not!

Dan

241 posted on 01/28/2003 1:21:10 PM PST by BibChr (troubler of Salt Lake City)
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To: drstevej
Well, isn't that special? And I'm first on the list. I'm blushing.

Yeah, but you watch your back, doc! Second place is hot on your heels, and his eyes are on the prize!!

Dan

242 posted on 01/28/2003 1:27:55 PM PST by BibChr (I try harder)
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To: drstevej; Elsie; xzins
As long as Mormons pretend Mormonism is Christianity, there will be and should be a response

Now, here is a genuinely serious point to ponder.

Have you ever noticed that —

...BUT...

?

Funny, ain't it?

Dan
Biblical Christianity web site

243 posted on 01/28/2003 1:31:23 PM PST by BibChr (Things that make you say, "Hmmmmmm....")
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To: Elsie
Wow, that is remarkable.
244 posted on 01/28/2003 1:31:46 PM PST by BibChr (Things that make you say, "Hmmmmmm....")
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To: HarryDunne
Does every LDS-related thread degenerate to an anti-Mormon free-for-all? Even a thread about Utah Baby Names?

I agree Harry even though I love to discuss Mormon history, and doctrine. My ancestors were among the very first to arrive in Utah. Probably where I got my name. I kinda got a kick out of this article. I don't consider everything bad about my Mormon history. Its the teachings of the church through the years that I differ with. As far as the people, I would say they are among my favorites.
245 posted on 01/28/2003 1:32:19 PM PST by Delphinium
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To: Elsie
Am I mocking when I cut & paste, FROM YOUR SCRIPTURES, and merely high-light in RED the things you do NOT want to talk about?

They would say you were taking it out of context, or that you are bashibg them. Anything to avoid answering the question.
246 posted on 01/28/2003 1:52:28 PM PST by Delphinium
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To: Wrigley
Do the Mormons help those who are not Mormons?

Depends on which Mormon. They are all different just like anyone else. Some might be helping you as the try to convert you.
247 posted on 01/28/2003 1:54:44 PM PST by Delphinium
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To: drstevej; Illbay
Hey, How come I'm at the bottom of that list?

Its funny, if you criticize Mormon Doctrine you are an anti-mormon bigot. You can't just be "wrong" with these people. You can't just disagree with their theology. If you disagree with their EVER CHANGING doctrine, then you are not just wrong, but you are evil. (Isn't that like criticizing liberal positions. Liberals don't just think conservatives are wrong-- they think they are evil).

Funny, but if you point out something that the Mormons used to believe with all their heart and soul and minds, but that they don't believe anymore -- like the ban on Blacks in the Priesthood-- then you are the bigot. They are not now, nor have they ever been bigots-- even when they denied the Priesthood to Blacks (it was their Ever-changing and always "growing" God that was the bigot-- not them), but if you point out these inconsistencies, then you certainly are an anti-mormon bigot!

Well it seems that some of these nice well-mannered and considerate mormons would prefer it if you and I would drop dead. Well that really takes the cake, doesn't it?

248 posted on 01/28/2003 2:32:28 PM PST by P-Marlowe
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To: P-Marlowe
My hope is that their irritation with us is truth being revealed to them. It is very hard for them to admit the truth about their religion, thats why they have to explain away their founders teachings, and actions.
249 posted on 01/28/2003 3:30:26 PM PST by Delphinium
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To: BibChr
I'm not so worried about what other Christians think about me, what truly matters is what Jesus Christ thinks of me on Judgement Day. Have I lived the way he taught in the New Testament? That is what counts.
250 posted on 01/28/2003 4:08:27 PM PST by Utah Girl (Here I come to save the day, Mighty Mouse is on his way!!!)
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