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Utah Baby Names (That distinctive name that says, "I'm Mormon.")
The Utah Baby Namer ^ | Wes and Cari Clark

Posted on 01/24/2003 4:41:20 PM PST by A.J.Armitage

What's In a (Utah) Name?

by Cari Bilyeu Clark


When my husband and I moved from Utah to the Washington, D.C. area seventeen years ago, we knew nothing of the inadvertent legacy we carried from our four years in Utah. Shortly after we arrived in our new home, we saw a television commercial for a local grocery store chain. The spokeswoman's name was the unusual "Odonna." "She's gotta be from Utah," I said to my husband. "That's a Utah name if I ever heard one."

We eventually learned that Odonna was, indeed, Utah born and bred.

It dawned on us that many names we'd heard during our college careers, and found only mildly remarkable, were indeed unique to the Utah Mormon culture. Thus began our quest to define what makes some names singularly Utahn, and what sets them apart from ethnic names with roots in other cultures, such as Juanita or Shoshanna; or African-American names such as Tawanda and Shaquille; or the newly common, soap-operaesque handles such as Skylar, Tiffany, Raven, and Adrienne. There's a difference, and it's not just the obviously Mormon scriptural names like Mahonri or Nephi or Moroni. Often identifying a Utah name is a gut feeling akin to Justice Potter Stewart's definition of pornography: you know it when you see it.

The quintessential Utah name often has a French-sounding prefix such as Le-, La-, Ne-, or Va-. Often names appear to have genesis in the combined names of the parents--Veradeane or GlenDora, for example. Related is the practice of feminizing the father's name--as in Vonda (dad is Vaughan) or Danetta. Others, such as Snell or Houser, appear to be surnames called into service as first names.

Related is the curious tendency, more common in Utah than elsewhere, for men (women do not seem to do this) to use the first initial, then the full middle name as the given name, such as L. Flake Roberts, who ran for office in Utah County when we lived there. (Come on, you've noticed this habit among the general authorities of the LDS church!) Besides puzzling over why someone would want to be known as "Flake," it makes one wonder just what the "L" stands for.

[Hmmmm. Where have we heard about that before? --A.J.]

So my husband and I entertained ourselves by collecting the often bizarre names we found in Utah publications (including the obituaries, which indicates that this is not a recent fad) and of Utah natives we met. We compiled a list and shared it with our friends, who often as not had a few more to add. We really hit a bonanza when one woman shared our observations with her mother, who worked at a Utah bank and had access to lots of names. She started her own list and began sending the names to us. (My personal favorite, LaNondus, came from this source.) Another friend told us of a set of sisters, all of whose names began with "Ja."

Once my husband had Internet access, he collected more names and corresponded with another couple who amused themselves the same way. They made cleverly categorized lists: "The ward choir director's daughters: LaVoice, Choral, Audia."

It makes you wonder what some parents were thinking when, for instance, they named their baby girl Lanae (la-nay)--and she unfortunately ended up with a big nose (le nez [la-nay] in French means "the nose"). Or the girl named M'Lu--are clever wags endlessly asking her to skip to it? And how the heck do people with apostrophes in their names fill out computerized forms? There's no apostrophe space. The guy I really pity, though, is the one saddled with the unfortunate moniker, Rube.

Of course, parents cannot predict what new interpretations the marketplace will bring to the names they lovingly bestow on their offspring. I once worked at a company which had dealings with a woman named LaPriel (pronounced la-prell). When I told my former roommate about this inexplicable first name, she sardonically replied, "What's her sister's name--LaTegrin?"

With the generally larger-than-average family, often saddled with the very ordinary surnames Smith, Johnson, or Young, it's not surprising that many Utah parents look for unique given names for their children. When you throw in the reverence for family and ancestors forwarded by the LDS Church, it seems inevitable that someone would end up with LaEarl, KDell, Arnolene or Hariella.

Some names, though, seem to defy description--if not pronunciation. While pride of place may have spawned Utahna, how did somebody come up with Wealtha? And while Lloydine's genesis seems plausible, how on earth were Printha or Noy coined? And I have no idea what constitutes the correct pronunciation for Kairle or Tawhnye. (I suspect they may be wildly creative spellings of Carol and Tonya.)

Perhaps the following list (by no means comprehensive) will amuse you. Perhaps it will offend you. Perhaps you will find your name, or the name of a relative, on it. Or perhaps you will be so enchanted by a particular name that you'll want to bestow it upon one of your own offspring. If that is your plan, first do this: go to the back door, fling it open and yell the name at the top of your lungs six or eight times, because that's how it's going to be heard for the next eighteen years. And remember, when little Wynante (boy or girl, you choose) grows up, you'll have to live with the consequences.




The Cream of the Crop

The Clarks' Favorite Utah Names

Updated 24 January 2003


The new parents couldn't be happier: Gladell & Delightra (sisters), Luvit, Delecta, Delite, Joyette, Joi, Joyia, Joyellen, Joycell, Hallah Lujah [How about Hallah Back Y'all? --A.J.], Bliss, Joyanne

Cleanliness is next to Godliness: Zestpoole, Sparkle

The Ward Choir Director's Daughters: Aria, Audia, Aurel, Choral, LaVoice, Tonilee, Capella, Chime, Rocksan Violin

Jewels every one: Amulet, Pearlette, Pearlene, Emerald, JewlyAnn, Ahmre Jade, Treasure Tonya, Turquoise Nova, Sequin, Amethist.

Girls you just know have big, floofy hair: Blondeen, Rayette, Faundaree, Shazette, Shasheena, Honilynn, Najestica, Teasa, Shazzanna, Pluma, Bobbette, Blonda, Breezy, Wenderella, Aquanetta, Brinderella, Dazzlyn

Maybe they're in the Klingon Ward: Tchae, Xko, Corx, G'ni, Vvhs, Garn, Ka, Deauxti, Xymoya, Sha'Kira [Her older sister is called Macare'na.], Zy, Xela, Tscharna, Nivek, Zon'tl, Zagg, Xan, Judziah Datz (a female, named after a character in Star Trek), K'lar (ditto), Jarna Nazhalena, Chod, Xarek, Grik, Stod, T'Shara, Tral, Sherik, Curg

[I am Krang the Merciless!! And I'm a Mormon!]

The Worth of a Soul: Cashley

Astronomical: LeVoid, Sunan, Moonyene, Starlene, Sunelly, Luna, Lunia, Solinda, Sunirae, Staryl, Marandastarr, Season, Aries, Starlyn, Cressent, Celestial Starr, Summerlyn, Astrolena

Could only be LDS: Cumorah Hill, Liahonna, Ensign, Nauvoo, Kirtland, Templa, Templer, Tempella, Tempalia, Ziona, Deseret (and Desereta), Tabernacle, Woodruff, Pratt, Tithing, Quorum, Helamans Warrior, Iron Rod, Morona, Manti, Stripling, Nephi Courage, Celestial Glory, Celestian, Brighaminie, Zion, Xione (pronounced "zion")

Parents were BYU math majors: Alpha Mae, Seven, Seavenly, Twenty, Prime, Omega Lee, Jennyfivetina, Tenna [Mormon porn star: Tenna Tameson.], Elevena, Ninea, Eighta

[How would you like to be named after your birth order?]

You can name a kid this, but you shouldn't ingest it: Cola, Vinyl, Orlon, Chlorine, Clorene, Florene, Florine, Lexann, Dow, Tide, Downy, Codiene, Daquari, DeCon, Starbuck, Crayon, Treasure Cocaine

[Classy. Real classy.]

Names inspired by the family car: Audi, Fairlene, Celecta, Pontiac, Vonda, Vonza, Auto, Cherokee, Lexus, Porsche, Skylark, Truckston, Avis, Chevrollette, Chevonne, Caprice, Dodge

["Honey, nothing says class like Lexus. Now go make some jello."]

Wishful thinking: Darlin', Courage, Winsome, Justan Tru, Pictorianna, Paradise Sunrise, Sage, Angelic, Breed, Godlove, Myrth, LaVirgin, DeFonda Virtue, Chastice, Normalene, Lovie Angel, Precious Blessing, Heavenly Melanie, Glee, Mormon Beauty, Pledger, Jentill, Devota, Coy, Fondd, Bridella, Verna Noall, Vervine, Viva, Golden Noble, MarVel, MemRee, Brunette, Merrily, Merry Ann, Celestial, Cherrish, Kash, Cashelle, Teton, Forever, Luvit, Mystiq, Worthy, Truly, Pleasant, Speedy, Hereditary, Shrudilee, Halo, Gentry, Truthanne, Finita, Mavryck, Amen, Merrijane, Marvelous Man.

Dad's hobby is obvious: Justa Cowgirl, Rode O, Hazer, Durango, Rifle, Laker, Jazz, Truck. Granite, Garnet, Gneiss (and other sisters with rock names beginning with “G.”)

Conversational: Whisper, Chat

Indications of possible birthplace: Arizonia, Floria, Montania, Utah, Utahna, Idahana, Idaho, Mauntana [Flunk spelling, name you kid Mauntana. Study hard!], Michigan, Nevadna, Okla, Vermont, Wyoming, Wyoma, Cache, Jordana, Payson, Vernal, Boise, Brookelynn, Lexington, Demoyn, Fredonia, Leremy, Platte, Salina, Seattle, Takoma, Tulsa, Tustin, Vail, Lundyn, Londyn, Irelynd, Irelan, Madrid, Manila, Cairo, Damascus, Tyre, Desert, Shahara, Trinidad, Houston, Cachelyn, D'Asia, Edon, Takoda, Orem, Shannon doah, Davenport Shore

No man (or woman) is an island - exceptions: Oahu, Irlanda, Tonga, SeaBreaze, Tiki Lou

Possible conception placenames: Hilton, Nafeteria, Bridges, Castle

Indications of possible birthdates: Juneth, Junola, LaJune, Julyn, Halloween, Novella, Summerisa, Winnter, Christmas Holiday, Merrienoel, Kris Miss, Tuesdee, Aprella

The day dawn is breaking: Dawnae, Dawnia, Dawnel, Dawnelle, Dawnene, Dawnalyn, Dawnette, Karadawn, RaDawn, Keturah Dawn, SheriDawn, LuDawn, LaDawn, Le Dawn, El Dawn, Dawnetta, Dawnese, Mistidawn, Berva Dawn, Celestial Dawn, Bodawn, Honey Dawn, Sunrise, Dawny, Yodawn, Dawnika, Dawnray, Denverly Dawn, Sunni Dawn, Dusty Dawn, Taradawn, Twyla Dawn, Georgia Dawn, Iva Dawn, Marva Dawn

Dad was a plumber: Valva, BeDae, Latrina, La Jonne, Digger

Dad worked for the postal service: Mailene

Dad's a lawyer: Justicia

Dad had a hernia: Truss

Less is more: La, Oa, NB, T, M, Q, JJ

I hope the computer will accept apostrophes in the name fields: D'Ann, D'Aun, D'Bora, D'Dee, D'Elise, D'Loaf, D'Shara, E'all, L'Deane, L'orL, Ja'mon, J'Costa, J'dean, J'Leen, J'net, J'Shara, J'Vonna, La'Donis, Me'shell, M'Jean, M'Kaaylie, M'Kenna, Mi'Lara, M'Lisa, M'Liss, M'Lu, M'Recia, O'lea, R'dell, R'lene, Shan'l, Young'n, B'andra, De'lys, D'Dree

["And the called her... O'Lestra. She had the runs a lot."]

Future names of prescriptions: Lyravin, Monalaine, Nyleen, Merlaine, Monease, Naquel, Ronalene, Nylan, Rolayne, Tyron, Lexine, Lyrin, Mikatin, Artax, Xtrin, Tylene, Qedrin, Tamrin, Denilyn, Kevrin, Nicolin, Xylan, Tolex, Zylan, Daycal, Falycid, Zerin, Davon, Sydal

Wow! What a Babe!: Wavie, Zhalore, LaTanna, Tressa, LaDreama, Amourette

Fluid-related: Thermos, Soda, Logan River, Jordan River, Susquehannah, Canteen

When simple alphabetic characters aren't enough: K-8 (pronounced "Kate," I guess)

[Kids: that's happens when you're illiterate. Stay in school!]

Politically incorrect: Sambo, Aryion

[Maybe they weren't thinking "Aryan", but "Arian". Heretics gotta stick together!]

Heard chanted in the Salt Lake airport: Ara-Om

Has food connotations: Dianarea, Dicey, Vindalu, Blenda, Strawberry, Sugarlee, Beena, Pork Chop, Sesami, Jar, Karmel, Kresent, TaffiLyn, Chipo

Had breathing problems in the hospital nursery: Azure, Syrullean

You might find in a forest: Wrendie, Jilbear, Timber, Oaks, Pixie, LaFawnduh, Fawn-Dew, Ember, Bird, Magpie, Serenity Fawn, Paradi, L'Aire, Brookelle, Sylvan, Fawna, Lawn, Rain, Gazelle, El Fawn ["El" makes it masculine, "Fawn" makes it girly-poofy. El Fawn: expressing pride from Salt Lake City to San Francisco.], Aspen, Acacia, Panda, Briar, Rhodendra, Fernnola, Birdene, Hummingbird, Disney, Chinchilla Zest, Haven, Glade

No doubt about it, this kid's in charge: Rexina, Rexine, Queenola, Dominee, Ruger, Messiah Angel, Oden, RexDee, Navy, Jentry, Czar, LeeMaster, Quintessa, Marquessa, Leviathan, Captain.

Smells: Cachet, Reaka, Violeet, Avon, Budla

Faux ethnic: Laddie, Walkasheaqua, Bsjonet, Hishla, Chilnecha, Forthilda, Kaltighanna, Alainka, Chip-wa, Pawnece America, Zem Saxon, O'Ann, WaThene, Sheighlagh, Valliere

Commemorating something or another: Welcome Exile, Confederate American, Southern Justice, Liberty Lulu, Young Elizabeth, Genesis, MistiNoele, Imagine, Thankful Flood, Friends Forsaken, Joyous Noel, Tennyson, Knight Train, Miracles Precious One, Sunday's Hoseana, Disney, Blessing Ream, Stormy Shepherd, Denim Levi, Vernal Independence, Sincere Devotion, Mothers, Elvoid, Noah-Lot, Mormon Miracles, MyLae, Nightrain Lane, Zion Anakin, Jeopardee, Statehood, Denim Levi

Let's hope not: Rube, Sleeza, Nymphus, Golden P., Burns, Hydra, Non, Malis, Talon, Beefea, Patches, Storm, Slayer, Sterile, Slaughter, Jynx, Hyde, Prynne, StormiAnn, Sham, Apathy, DeRail, Dull, Gamble

In a class of their own (In fact, I'm not sure I believe these but we asked for details and a confirmation and got convincing replies, so here they are): NaLa'DeLuhRay, Phakelikaydenicia, Zaragrunudgeyon ("Zarg," for short), Jennyfivetina, Tiarrhea, Nudity, VulvaMae, DaLinda LaDale, Tugdick, Saunsceneyouray, and, yes... Clitoris.

["Well, it sounded pretty when the doctor said it, and my wife Placenta likes it."]

Teletubbies: Laalaa

Guaranteed to get last place on our list (or anyone else's): ZZkora

I can't think of anything clever to write but these must be mentioned: Barbeli, Revo Cram, Feramorz, Glint, LaNondus, Wynante, Camera, Lecoya, AureJudd, NaNon, Bimberly, DavidO, Leumas ("Samuel" backwards), Ralphene, Shimber, T-vive, Synthi, CoJane, Nona-rene, Gaylawn, Txanton, LaZello, Daycal, Sancie D'Wan, RaVoe, Zenus, Gatobon, LaEarl, Trystal, AndiOdette, Serenity-Tabitha-Ann, Alexavier, X Y Zella, Bonquisha, Musser Cenia, Jubeltine, Oryeon, Shlori, Danlonaga, Zedwain, Casualeen, Young'n, Shambertine Crille, Canon, Malique, LeeWitt, Jazzeri, DeRaunz, Teru, Aaro, Divid, Cimemthymia, LaDonnaJosephrania, LaDeeDee, deRalph, MaddLynAlain, Vyquetoriya, Falycid, Rophis, Mick BonScott, Kaysional Tempest, Darianlelo, DeLaVerne, BoChe', Minnet, Kandle, Seena Tawnya, Dwodger, J Thoral, Xanderrick, Abcde, KNikkol, Demeatrice, LLean Shanalyn, Scytha Solena, HiDee


TOPICS: Humor; Other non-Christian
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To: restornu; Wrigley
Rest:

You are still on the wrong path spiritually and getting in deeper and deeper. I will pray for you.
351 posted on 01/29/2003 6:08:35 PM PST by CARepubGal (Liberals: what are they good for? Absolutely NOTHING!)
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To: CARepubGal; Illbay; White Mountain; CubicleGuy; Utah Girl; rising tide; Grig; Rad_J
And your Garments will not help you in the lake of fire:

Could it also being worthy by prayer, an a Alkaline pluse diet helped Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego:

19 ¶ Then was Nebuchadnezzar full of fury, and the form of his visage was changed against Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego: therefore he spake, and commanded that they should heat the furnace one seven times more than it was wont to be heated.

20 And he commanded the most mighty men that were in his army to bind Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, and to cast them into the burning fiery furnace.

21 Then these men were bound in their coats, their hosen, and their hats, and their other garments, and were cast into the midst of the burning fiery furnace.

22 Therefore because the king’s commandment was urgent, and the furnace exceeding hot, the flame of the fire slew those men that took up Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego.

23 And these three men, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, fell down bound into the midst of the burning fiery furnace.

24 Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astonied, and rose up in haste, and spake, and said unto his counsellors, Did not we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire? They answered and said unto the king, True, O king.

25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego:

26 ¶ Then Nebuchadnezzar came near to the mouth of the burning fiery furnace, and spake, and said, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, ye servants of the most high God, come forth, and come hither. Then Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, came forth of the midst of the fire.

27 And the princes, governors, and captains, and the king’s counsellors, being gathered together, saw these men, upon whose bodies the fire had no power, nor was an hair of their head singed, neither were their coats bchanged•, nor the smell of fire had passed on them.

28 Then Nebuchadnezzar spake, and said, Blessed be the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, who hath sent his angel, and delivered his servants that trusted in him, and have changed the king’s word, and yielded their bodies, that they might not serve nor worship any god, except their own God.

29 Therefore I make a decree, That every people, nation, and language, which speak any thing miss against the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, shall be cut in pieces, and their houses shall be made a dunghill: because there is no other God that can deliver after this sort.,/b>

30 Then the king promoted Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, in the province of Babylon.

352 posted on 01/29/2003 6:27:40 PM PST by restornu (I am a child of God:)
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To: CARepubGal
an a Alkaline pluse diet

an a Alkaline pulse diet

353 posted on 01/29/2003 6:33:28 PM PST by restornu (I am a child of God:)
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To: restornu; drstevej; Wrigley; Elsie
The three referenced people were praying to the real God, not Joseph Smith's construct. Next?
354 posted on 01/29/2003 6:35:24 PM PST by CARepubGal (Liberals: what are they good for? Absolutely NOTHING!)
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To: restornu
Um, it wasn't the clothes that saved 'em. They could have stood naked and they would have lived.
355 posted on 01/29/2003 6:40:24 PM PST by Wrigley
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To: CARepubGal
Evening CA.

Got back from a very bad BB game. I'll be counting 10 before I post for a while.
356 posted on 01/29/2003 6:42:03 PM PST by Wrigley (Remeber its only a game.)
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To: restornu
***an a Alkaline pluse diet helped Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego***

How about a miracle? Or does the Mormon concept of god(s) preclude miracles?
357 posted on 01/29/2003 6:45:41 PM PST by drstevej (the compassionate Calvinist)
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To: CARepubGal
Hey, somebody has to play "Port" Rockwell.

Might as well be me.

N.B. Don't worry about my excoriating personality, IF you don't devote your life to spreading lies about my faith. Absent that I'm sure we'll get along just fine.

358 posted on 01/29/2003 7:17:25 PM PST by Illbay
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To: restornu
352 posted on 01/29/2003 8:27 PM CST by restornu (I am a child of God:)

No matter how much you claim to be a child of God, you are still a daughter of Satan. It does pain me to say it, sweetheart, but it is true.

Reprobation is the severity of God and it is Biblical. Until you come to grips with the fact that the Lord is just holy enough to damn very nearly every single person of Mormon faith without ever plainly showing them that they are following demons from Hell, you will never see your need to flee the wrath that is coming upon that church.
359 posted on 01/29/2003 7:19:49 PM PST by CCWoody
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To: CARepubGal
Absolutly the real God JS And I also read the Bible scriptures!

360 posted on 01/29/2003 7:34:56 PM PST by restornu (I am a child of God:)
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To: drstevej
Dan.1
15 And at the end of ten days their countenances appeared fairer and fatter in flesh than all the children which did eat the portion of the king’s meat.

The point was the diet help them to focus to keep their eyes on the Lord, which enabled them to keep the faith!

361 posted on 01/29/2003 7:48:57 PM PST by restornu (I am a child of God:)
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To: Illbay
N.B. is that a Danite term?
362 posted on 01/29/2003 7:51:17 PM PST by CARepubGal (Liberals: what are they good for? Absolutely NOTHING!)
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To: P-Marlowe
But I do believe in the Jesus of the New Testament. This "you don't believe in the right Jesus" is getting old. I accept the sacrifice and Atonement of Jesus Christ for my sins. Like I keep saying, I will let Christ be my judge. Not to be flippant, but we will find out on Judgement day, won't we?
363 posted on 01/29/2003 8:14:43 PM PST by Utah Girl (Here I come to save the day, Mighty Mouse is on his way!!!)
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To: Delphinium
I'm really sorry you never heard that Jesus Christ died and Atoned for your sins. I was taught that from the time I can remember, in LDS Sunday School, Primary, Young Women, Seminary, and then at BYU in my religion classes. Yes, Joseph Smith is a very important person in our religion. But Jesus Christ is the core of our religion. He is the reason for everything. Thanks for your comments, we'll have to agree to disagree because there is no way I am going to give up my testimony of Jesus Christ and the truth of His restored gospel.
364 posted on 01/29/2003 8:20:14 PM PST by Utah Girl (Here I come to save the day, Mighty Mouse is on his way!!!)
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To: Elsie
Around and around and around we go...Christ died for my sins. I will live eternally because of His sacrifice. However, faith without works is dead, (and the converse can be said: works without faith is dead.) Why did Christ say to live his commandments? No, my works alone will not save me, and I realize that. But my faith in his atoning sacrifice does and will, but I must also do everything in my power to make sure I live a Christ-like life. And then He will make up the rest.
365 posted on 01/29/2003 8:24:15 PM PST by Utah Girl (Here I come to save the day, Mighty Mouse is on his way!!!)
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To: CCWoody
Thanks for the warning. I am LDS, and do believe I will leave it up to God to decide my fate.
366 posted on 01/29/2003 8:27:37 PM PST by Utah Girl (Here I come to save the day, Mighty Mouse is on his way!!!)
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To: CARepubGal
No, it's a Latin term. You might have heard of them. The main difference between them and the Danites is that they actually existed.
367 posted on 01/29/2003 8:35:25 PM PST by Illbay
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To: Utah Girl
...and the converse can be said: works without faith is dead.

U.G., that's all nice and pleasant-sounding, and I have in the past thrown this sop to these cretins as well, but let's face it: It's a lame concept.

"Works without faith is dead?" Who do YOU know who DOESN'T do good works IN FAITH that they are doing what the Lord requires of them?

The only thing you get WITHOUT faith is...zippo. Nothing. Nada.

Without faith, there is NO motivation to perform those good works we know the Lord has commanded us to do.

That these cretins IGNORE the words of Christ in favor of the writings of a sixteenth century heretic priest providing his own personal interpretation of the writings of a first century apostle is a wonder in itself, but I've stopped playing in their cesspool.

If you do not make a good FAITH effort to walk up to those commandments you have received from the Lord, then you HAVE no faith: IT IS DEAD.

PERIOD.

No accomodation with these dead and decaying philosophies of men mingled with scripture will suffice.

They are FLAT WRONG, and that's all there is to it, when they believe you can live a life of complete debauchery, then have a "sincere" repentence in the moment of your death, mumble a few platitudinous phrases, and enjoy the company of the Saints through eternity.

"I will show you my faith BY my works." Sounds good to me, without taking Paul out of context (which they'd never have done except they have the dead-weight of that albatross Luther hanging around their silly, foolish necks).

368 posted on 01/29/2003 8:43:12 PM PST by Illbay
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To: Illbay
when they believe you can live a life of complete debauchery, then have a "sincere" repentence in the moment of your death, mumble a few platitudinous phrases, and enjoy the company of the Saints through eternity.

Tsk, tsk....

and you LDS folk say that WE are the ones telling you what YOU believe!

369 posted on 01/29/2003 8:49:33 PM PST by Elsie (I trust in Jesus.... THOUSANDS OF EXISTING MANUSCRIPTS speak of Him!)
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To: Illbay
Nota bene? :-) There were vigilante bands during the tenure of Brigham Young that were alleged by the settlers to be danites. The irony is that secret combinations are a particular do not do (nothing to contradict this in the BoM) and are specifically condemned....Anyway, these fellows tended to enforce their version of Mormon Law (close to Sharia in fact) in Utah with an iron fist tucked in a steel glove. nasty stuff and BY turned a blind eye (although with 28 or 50 some wives that would be easy for him to do.....)
370 posted on 01/29/2003 8:52:05 PM PST by CARepubGal (Liberals: what are they good for? Absolutely NOTHING!)
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To: Illbay
I agree with your comments, except that sometimes we can go through the motions of doing good works without the faith for the facade, or because we're expected to. But you are absolutely correct, if I don't have faith I'm less apt to do good works.

I also remember the words of Alma, to put Christ's word to the test. What is the result? I have seen the results of believing in Jesus Christ in my life, and the results of being a believing member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I will never give up the joy and happiness I feel when I live the right way and I will never give up my testimony.

371 posted on 01/29/2003 8:54:53 PM PST by Utah Girl (Here I come to save the day, Mighty Mouse is on his way!!!)
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To: Illbay
 
when they believe you can live a life of complete debauchery, then have a "sincere" repentence in the moment of your death, mumble a few platitudinous phrases, and enjoy the company of the Saints through eternity.
 
Translation: Jesus is a LIAR!

KJV Matthew 20:1-16
 
 1.  For the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard.
 2.  And when he had agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard.
 3.  And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace,
 4.  And said unto them; Go ye also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will give you. And they went their way.
 5.  Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and did likewise.
 6.  And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle?
 7.  They say unto him, Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them, Go ye also into the vineyard; and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive.
 8.  So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first.
 9.  And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny.
 10.  But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny.
 11.  And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house,
 12.  Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day.
 13.  But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny?
 14.  Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee.
 15.  Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?
 16.  So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.
 
 
KJV Luke 23:39-43
 39.  And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
 40.  But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
 41.  And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
 42.  And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
 43.  And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.


372 posted on 01/29/2003 9:02:38 PM PST by Elsie (I trust in Jesus.... THOUSANDS OF EXISTING MANUSCRIPTS speak of Him!)
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To: Utah Girl
But my faith in his atoning sacrifice does and will, but I must also do everything in my power to make sure I live a Christ-like life. And then He will make up the rest.

and if you don't?


What if you only do 95%

80%

Or, Heaven forbid, only 20%

Then what?

373 posted on 01/29/2003 9:04:51 PM PST by Elsie (I trust in Jesus.... THOUSANDS OF EXISTING MANUSCRIPTS speak of Him!)
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To: Elsie; Wrigley; CCWoody; drstevej
This reminds me of a rather good sermon I heard a while back. We can stand at the edge of the Pacific Ocean and try and swim to Hawaii from San Diego. Some of us will make it to the jetty, some will be out in the deep water swimming. None of us can swim to Hawaii on our own (works). God has a boat sitting close to shore which will take us to a cruise ship which will sail to Hawaii. All we need to do is take a few steps out in faith. Mormons and other works oriented folks think we need to swim to Hawaii to be saved.
374 posted on 01/29/2003 9:50:59 PM PST by CARepubGal (Liberals: what are they good for? Absolutely NOTHING!)
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To: Utah Girl
This "you don't believe in the right Jesus" is getting old.

Are you willing to follow Jesus wherever he leads you -- even if he leads you out of the LDS Church?

If not then I would have to say that you do not actually believe and trust in Jesus, but instead you believe and trust in the LDS Church authorities.

The Jesus that I believe in unequivocally led me away from the LDS Church. So, since Jesus led me away from the LDS Church and the Holy Spirit has confirmed in my heart that the LDS Church is wrong and preaches blasphemy, do you and I believe in the same Jesus?

375 posted on 01/29/2003 10:20:12 PM PST by P-Marlowe
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To: CARepubGal; Illbay; White Mountain; CubicleGuy; Utah Girl; rising tide; Grig; Rad_J
You almost got it right CA!

All one has to do who makes Covenants with the Lord is to Keep His Commandments, to do the best we can and the Lord will Cover the differents!

We can't do it all but we sure can learn how to exercise and strengthen the Spiritual muscle!

376 posted on 01/29/2003 10:22:21 PM PST by restornu (I am a child of God:)
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To: P-Marlowe
And I have had the witness in my heart that Jesus is the Christ and that the gospel of Jesus Christ that the LDS church teaches is true. I don't blindly believe what the LDS church authorities say, I study it out in my mind, and pray about it, to see if it is true. And I have been given that witness that it is. I cannot deny it. Christ will not lead me out of the LDS church, as much as you and others desire it. Sorry.
377 posted on 01/29/2003 10:22:51 PM PST by Utah Girl (Here I come to save the day, Mighty Mouse is on his way!!!)
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To: P-Marlowe; Utah Girl; Illbay; White Mountain; CubicleGuy; rising tide; Grig; Rad_J
Are you willing to follow Jesus wherever he leads you -- even if he leads you out of the Nicene Creed?

I was seeking the Lord church all of my life and I found it in

"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints!"

378 posted on 01/29/2003 10:27:13 PM PST by restornu (I am a child of God:)
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To: Utah Girl
But are you willing to follow Jesus even if he were to lead you away from the LDS Church?

Or is your mind absolutely closed to the idea? Keep this in mind, I had the same testimony of the truthfulness of the LDS Church that you have. But the Jesus that saved me from my sins led me away from the LDS Church.

Please answer this question: If the Jesus that I believe in led me away from the LDS Church and has testified to my heart that the LDS Church is false and preaches blasphemy, then do you and I believe in the same Jesus?

It is a simple yes or no question. You need not elaborate. Just answer yes or no.

379 posted on 01/29/2003 10:34:00 PM PST by P-Marlowe
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To: restornu
I was seeking the Lord church all of my life

Perhaps if you were seeking Jesus Christ instead of a "church" then you would have found Jesus Christ -- instead of a church.

Yes, you found a Church. A very fine Church-- full of nice people and good works. But obviously you didn't find Jesus. You just found a church. It appears to me that your hope and faith is in the LDS Church and not in Christ.

380 posted on 01/29/2003 10:46:33 PM PST by P-Marlowe
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To: Elsie
In this case, you simply have no concept what you're talking about. This is why modern revelation is so essential, for the scriptures are not for personal interpretation.

"Paradise" is not heaven. Rather, it is a place where spirits go to await final judgement. How "Chri$tian$" can simultaneously believe in the day of Judgement, and in "instant judgement" (as in the thief on the cross) is but another example of the mass of confusion you're forced to swallow because of hundreds of years of benighted orthodoxy.

In short, Christ NEVER told the thief that He was to have "eternal life" (that is, life eternal in the place were His Father dwells) but that he would be with Christ in the place of the Spirits, when "also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;" (Chri$tian$ ignore that scripture; they can't understand it, so they resort to the subset of the Bible called their silly "orthodoxy") "...Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water." [1 Peter 3:19-20).

In short it isn't that Christ was a liar, but that you and most of the rest of Chri$tendom don't have the foggiest notion what you're talking about.

Sometimes ignorance is bliss. In your case and the case of millions of other darkened minds, it is hell.

381 posted on 01/30/2003 3:36:38 AM PST by Illbay
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To: Elsie
I think the Lord only expects 10%; a "tithe" as it were.

Here you go again, calling Christ "a liar" when He said "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in Heaven is perfect." [Matt. 5:48]

Ah, but I know that Chri$tians will say that you only have to be "perfect" the last few seconds of your life.

What darkened minds. It staggers the imagination.

382 posted on 01/30/2003 3:39:15 AM PST by Illbay
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To: CARepubGal
Amazing how little YOU know that "Mormons" believe.

In the case of your sermon, the thought is correct.

In the case of official Chri$tendom, however, you can sit at home reading a porn magazine, but SAY that you're going to go down to the water "real soon now."

When the heart attack strikes, you can state out loud that you had every intention of going to the beach, but this darn ol' death thing has interrupted you.

Then you'll be with the Lord in "Paradise" (wherever that is; you people certainly don't have a clue).

383 posted on 01/30/2003 3:41:58 AM PST by Illbay
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To: P-Marlowe
Are you willing to follow Jesus wherever he leads you -- even if he leads you out of the LDS Church?

You've already demonstrated that you are unwilling to follow him. Some flashy Chri$tian minister, perhaps, with gold rings on his fingers and his own TV station, but not Christ.

If you were willing to follow him, the last thing you'd be doing is persecuting His Church.

I PROMISE, I will try hard NOT to laugh on that day! I really will! (I am sure thankful that repentence is possible!)

384 posted on 01/30/2003 3:43:57 AM PST by Illbay
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To: P-Marlowe
Keep this in mind, I had the same testimony of the truthfulness of the LDS Church that you have. But the Jesus that saved me from my sins led me away from the LDS Church.


385 posted on 01/30/2003 3:45:30 AM PST by Illbay
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To: P-Marlowe
It appears to me that your hope and faith is in the LDS Church and not in Christ.I have to laugh at this. Here I sit in the armpit of Chri$tianity, with three "Megachurches" within five miles of me, prominently displaying the name of their learned, vaunted pastors (who are local celebrities who live the lives of the modern American celebrity), and you have the twittitude to preach to US about "following a Church instead of Christ"?

You are your own parody.

386 posted on 01/30/2003 3:50:06 AM PST by Illbay
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To: Illbay; Utah Girl; drstevej; Wrigley
Salvation, Illbay, is not to be found in a Church. Any church. Not mine. Not yours. Not Dr Steve's, not Wrigley's. It is to be found in trusting and believing in the ONE TRUE GOD and Jesus Christ whom he has sent.

It is clear from your posts and those of your LDS buddies that you have placed your faith and trust in the visions of Joseph Smith and in the institution of the LDS Church and you have no true desire to follow the Christ who is revealed in scripture. If there is a contradiction between what the LDS Church teaches and what the scriptures reveal about Jesus, you will follow the teachings of your present church authorities without question.

I find it most telling that you will not answer the question I have posed. Why is that?

I have stated that as a matter of fact the Jesus that saved my soul and the Jesus that I worship led me away from the LDS Church and has revealed to me that the LDS Church teaches blasphemy.

Now can any of you guys answer a "yes or no" question? Here it is: In light of the facts stated above, do you and I believe in the same Jesus?

387 posted on 01/30/2003 5:36:35 AM PST by P-Marlowe
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To: restornu
All one has to do who makes Covenants with the Lord is to Keep His Commandments,
to do the best we can and the Lord will Cover the differents!
 

Galatians 4:21-31
 21.  Tell me, you who want to be under the law, are you not aware of what the law says?
 22.  For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman.
 23.  His son by the slave woman was born in the ordinary way; but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a promise.
 24.  These things may be taken figuratively, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar.
 25.  Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children.
 26.  But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother.
 27.  For it is written: "Be glad, O barren woman, who bears no children; break forth and cry aloud, you who have no labor pains; because more are the children of the desolate woman than of her who has a husband."
 28.  Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise.
 29.  At that time the son born in the ordinary way persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now. 
 30.  But what does the Scripture say? "Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman's son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman's son."
 31.  Therefore, brothers, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman.
 
 
 
Hebrews 7:18-19
 18.  The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless
 19.  (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.
 
 
 
Hebrews 8:6-13
 6.  But the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, and it is founded on better promises.
 7.  For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another.
 8.  But God found fault with the people and said : "The time is coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.
 9.  It will not be like the covenant I made with their forefathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they did not remain faithful to my covenant, and I turned away from them,  declares the Lord.
 10.  This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.
 11.  No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, `Know the Lord,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest.
 12.  For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more."
 13.  By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear. That is if you are NOT a member of the LDS organization.  The OLD Law, the one that brings DEATH*, is STILL in force there.
 
*2 Corinthians 3:3-17
3. You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.
4. Such confidence as this is ours through Christ before God.
5. Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God.
6. He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant-- not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
7. Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, fading though it was,
8. will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious?
9. If the ministry that condemns men is glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness!
 
If you won't believe these words, but WILL believe something else, what does that mean?
 
 

388 posted on 01/30/2003 5:46:12 AM PST by Elsie (I trust in Jesus.... THOUSANDS OF EXISTING MANUSCRIPTS speak of Him!)
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To: restornu
We can't do it all but we sure can learn how to exercise and strengthen the Spiritual muscle!

But we sure WISH we could!

389 posted on 01/30/2003 5:47:11 AM PST by Elsie (I trust in Jesus.... THOUSANDS OF EXISTING MANUSCRIPTS speak of Him!)
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To: Illbay
Bark for us!

"By their FRUITS you shall know them"

390 posted on 01/30/2003 5:48:29 AM PST by Elsie (I trust in Jesus.... THOUSANDS OF EXISTING MANUSCRIPTS speak of Him!)
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To: Illbay
Here I sit in the armpit of Chri$tianity, with three "Megachurches" within five miles of me,

Ok, let's get out the financial records and we'll divide the cost of the buildings by the number of attenders to see how much per person was spent, if YOUR organization will do the same for your fabulous Temples!


(Looky! Names!)

(Looky! Pictures!)

391 posted on 01/30/2003 5:57:21 AM PST by Elsie (I trust in Jesus.... THOUSANDS OF EXISTING MANUSCRIPTS speak of Him!)
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To: CARepubGal; Jerry_M
The boat is the destination. Do you know what scripture makes me say that?
392 posted on 01/30/2003 6:06:42 AM PST by CCWoody
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To: Illbay; Utah Girl; restornu; Jerry_M; Wrigley; Elsie; RnMomof7; drstevej; A.J.Armitage; ...
"Paradise" is not heaven. Rather, it is a place where spirits go to await final judgement. How "Chri$tian$" can simultaneously believe in the day of Judgement, and in "instant judgement" (as in the thief on the cross) is but another example of the mass of confusion you're forced to swallow because of hundreds of years of benighted orthodoxy.

In short, Christ NEVER told the thief that He was to have "eternal life" ...
~ Illbay In short it isn't that Christ was a liar, but that you and most of the rest of Chri$tendom don't have the foggiest notion what you're talking about. ~ Illbay, turning Christ into a Liar Woody.

"... it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation..."
393 posted on 01/30/2003 6:32:50 AM PST by CCWoody
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To: Illbay
Ah, but I know that Chri$tians will say that you only have to be "perfect" the last few seconds of your life. ~ Illbay Woody.

Keep clinging to that false hope of Mormonism and you will only see the perfection of the Lord (Revelation 14:10), you will never enjoy experiencing the perfection of the Lord (Hebrews 10:14).
394 posted on 01/30/2003 6:35:57 AM PST by CCWoody
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To: CCWoody
Gosh Woody. Don't sugar coat it. Tell us what you really think.
395 posted on 01/30/2003 6:38:50 AM PST by P-Marlowe
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To: P-Marlowe
Gosh Woody. Don't sugar coat it. Tell us what you really think. ~ P-Marlowe Woody. ;-)
396 posted on 01/30/2003 6:46:53 AM PST by CCWoody
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To: CCWoody
And he also said "if ye love me, keep my commandments."

Swallowing the Chri$tian lie means ignoring SOME things Christ wrote in favor of others.

And FWIW, those who profess Christ AND seek to keep His commandments, including the dictum to "be perfect" (meaning as perfect as we are able to be given our level of knowledge) are able to have eternal life, which is life EXACTLY LIKE our Father has.

In that case, the LDS knowledge does not discard faith, but realizes that faith is NOTHING (that is, "dead," as James states) without the effort to obey the commandments.

Go ahead, pick and choose. In most cases, you will have the opportunity for enlightenment at some future time. But those who fight against God, as the "Chri$tian$" that infest these threads, will suffer for their own sins. God will NOT be mocked, by you or any other.

397 posted on 01/30/2003 6:59:59 AM PST by Illbay
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To: CCWoody
I can't figure out if you're just innocently blind, or if you are one of the wolves in sheeps' clothing the Savior warned us of.

Not having His wisdom, I cannot judge. But if the former, I pray you will someday gain the wisdom you obviously lack.

If the latter...as I've said, in my weakness I VOW not to laugh at the expression on your face on that day. I will try SO HARD.

398 posted on 01/30/2003 7:01:49 AM PST by Illbay
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To: Illbay; P-Marlowe
You've already demonstrated that you are unwilling to follow him. Some flashy Chri$tian minister, perhaps, with gold rings on his fingers and his own TV station, but not Christ.

Bill this would be funny if it was not so sad...You have a "prophet" you treat like a pope..Bet he flys in a "church owned "jet (or at least with all expensed paid.).bet there are tons of none "taxable" perks " with the job..and to go one more step you have one "minister" (prophet) that you can not get into heaven without ...

Open your eyes man.. these LDS prophets get plenty of "perks" ..lots more than a pathetic Christian Pastor 's salary....

MOST Christian Pastors are bi vocational or are paid so little they could not afford to visit Salt Lake city

399 posted on 01/30/2003 7:02:50 AM PST by RnMomof7
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To: Illbay
And FWIW, those who profess Christ AND seek to keep His commandments, including the dictum to "be perfect" (meaning as perfect as we are able to be given our level of knowledge) are able to have eternal life, which is life EXACTLY LIKE our Father has.

So, we all have the ability? Just some aren't smart enough?

400 posted on 01/30/2003 7:02:51 AM PST by Wrigley
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