Posted on 01/27/2003 10:05:20 AM PST by ksen
Yup. Prophets prophesy, and Saul did (I Sam. 10:10; 19:24). So yes, Saul was a Prophet.
But then again, so were Balaam and Caiaphas. This does not mean that they were Saved... just that God directed their tongues for His purposes.
John the Baptist, OTOH, was "filled" with the Holy Spirit "even from his mother's womb". This seems to me to be qualitatively different language than God's direction over the tongues of Saul or Balaam or Caiaphas.
I'd add the cases of the "such is the Kingdom" infants as another example of im-mediate, infant regeneration also, while I am thinking about it.
As always, IMHO. best, op
First of all, Good to hear from you again! Second of all, i was not really emphasising epistomology, i was more concerned with the_doc's comment about how Edwards has been misunderstood. It does have an effect on what we are, since Hodge (among others) is still used in many Reformed Seminaries.
Perhaps as a percursor we can start a thread on the epistemology of the movie, "The Matrix". We give everybody a week to see or review the movie and discuss the notion of 'immediate knowledge' as it is laid out in the movie.
You mean it actually had a plot????
I'd add the cases of the "such is the Kingdom" infants as another example of im-mediate, infant regeneration also, while I am thinking about it.
Well, i certainly don't argue about whether or not John was filled from his Mother's womb, that is undeniebly scriptural (Luke 1:15). What i am actually trying to discern in the matter is whether or not the knowlege of John the Baptist in the womb was immediate. IMHO, we are arguing from silence on the issue, while it is admitted that the media for John the Baptist would be more restrictive than it would be for others, it does not follow that a media did not exist. We do know that unborn infants do have some contact with the external world...i recall the picture that Drudge posted of a surgeon working on a pre-born infant...the child reached outside the incision on the mother and grasped the surgeon's finger...enough to chill the blood of anyone who is part of the "child-murder-in-the-guise-of-woman's-health-care" industry, assuming they still have a heart to pump the chilled blood. None-the-less, we still must prove that the knowlege is immediate imputation
Well, your objection is strictly speaking correct and, I think, virtually unarguable.
I don't think that it is proveable that, among other factors, the external influence of the mother is not a "media" used by God in the Regeneration of infants (and such very well may be). I don't think one can prove that it is, either; but the objection is valid and returns Im-mediate Imputation to the realm of Theory, possible but unproven.
John the Baptist and the "such is the Kingdom" infants are cases of Infant Regeneration which I would think of as examples of "immediate imputation", but the "im-mediacy" of the imputation is not explicitly proven by the Bible.
Even so, your point of regenerated infants is quite valid. God can and does ordain the means (if and where they in fact exist) of regeneration. It seems to me that Samuel would be another example of such, although i would have to familiarise myself with the appropriate sections to form an opinion.
Have you ever wondered why it is that we cannot bloody well think of these matters when we need to, such as on the "do babies go to heaven thread?
Many that post here on FR need that to be understood..they think the contention "drives away the lost" ..but this is not for the unbeliever it is for those that want to rightly divide the word of God..it is for the saved..the unsaved do not hear or understand it..that is a different ministry
There is only one record of a man being filled with the Holy Spirit in the OT that is found in Exodus 31 (an artisan )
Exd 31:3 And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship,
Other than that ONE man the Spirit of God was ON them not IN them in the OT
Would not his leaping indicate an immediate knowlege? He recognized the savior's presence and reacted to it.In a way he gave a testimony to his mother with that leap
The scripture says that Elizabeth heard the salutation of Mary, but that is not to say that John did not hear it. As you well know, six month pre-born infants can hear, feel, etc.
While one can question how he knew that Mary was carrying Jesus at the time, there is still the issue of the "media" of Mary's salutation. We are still in the precarious position of trying to make doctrine from silence, unless someone else has insights that we have missed.
Hey! that is exactly how I would describe the development of the Calvinistic system!
Oh, no this cannot be!
Calvin will just ignore what he wrote when he gets to Book 3, Chapter 21 (Election)
Ha, Ha, darkened the 'understanding' of a 'spiritual corpse'.
What happened to the 'corpse' analogy?
Maybe that went the way of OP's explaination that Satan blinded those who were already blind (2Cor.4:4)
Now, back to the question, no, it is not God who darkens their understanding, it is they who reject what God has revealed (Rom.1:21)
Then, God turns them over to their own delusions (2Thess.2:11)
And this from someone who used to pride themselves in being 'honest'!
Very sad to see how far you have fallen from that lofty position.
But evil campanions will corrupt good communications'(1Cor.15:33)
You would think so!
But this is Calvinism we are talking about here and truth becomes whatever they say it is, like Pink saying that the rich young ruler had to be saved because Christ love him!
And that's a good thing.
Corin just because you have a sense of something does not mean you have it or an ability to do it..God has planted in every man the knowlege that there is a God..but with out His grace they will never desire it..
If I pretend that you have a Scottish accent while reading your words, then it makes it all the more of a good read!
Thanks!
Jean
Gi'us here th bloody haggis, an a wee dram o'th usquibah...heav awa lads, i'm nae ded yet!
Nah, not really. Sometimes we all have a tendency to be like Cypher. ;?O
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