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Traditionalists, Tradition, And Private Judgement
TCR News ^ | Stephen Hand

Posted on 01/28/2003 11:27:58 AM PST by NYer

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To: Zviadist
<> I knew you didn't accept an Ecumenical Council but I thought for sure that you and your ilk would accept the decisions of Rev Peter Scott of the SSPX?

Are you autocephalic? :)<>

81 posted on 01/30/2003 10:44:35 AM PST by Catholicguy (Protestantism, minus integrity and courage = schism)
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To: Catholicguy
I don't know Scott either. Maybe he has a beef against him. Who knows. All I know is what I see: traditio.com is the single best source for Roman Catholic ORIGINAL documents on the web.
82 posted on 01/30/2003 10:47:54 AM PST by Zviadist
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To: american colleen
<> Well I don't like Jansenists tonight..

I got a feelin' the SSPX ain't really right

I'm so sacred that Old John Paul's in the Chair

And I'm wondering if the Church is still there..<> Clowns to the left of me! Jokers to the right! Here I am, stuck in the middle with you!

83 posted on 01/30/2003 10:49:44 AM PST by Catholicguy (Protestantism, minus integrity and courage = schism)
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Comment #84 Removed by Moderator

To: american colleen
'And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it - that is, not until the days of Vatican Council II

Bishop Thomas Morris - "I was relieved when we were told that this Council was not aiming at defining or giving final statements on doctrine because a statement of doctrine has to be very carefully formulated and I would have regarded the Council documents as tentative and liable to be reformed." (Catholic World News, January 22, 1997).

St Pius X in his first Encyclical which served also as the blueprint of his pontificate:

     "He who considers these things is entitled to fear that such a perversion of minds might represent the beginning of those evils foretold for the end of time, forming as it were, their stepping stone on to the earth, and that the Son of Perdition, of whom the Apostle speaks, might already be coming amongst us. For religion is being attacked with the greatest boldness and vigour, the dogmas of the Faith are being battered, and no effort is spared to tear asunder man's link with the divine. Moreover – and this is what the same Apostle tells us is typical of Antichrist – man in his unspeakable temerity is usurping the place of the Creator, and placing himself above all that bears the name of God. Powerless to extinguish within himself entirely the concept of God, he yet shakes off the yoke of His majesty and dedicates to himself a temple in the form of the visible world, where he receives the homage of his own kind...

     "That is why all our efforts must be directed towards bringing mankind back under the rule of Christ. To achieve the result of Our hopes, it is vital to spare no efforts in uprooting entirely this monstrous iniquity peculiar to the times we live in, which leads man to set himself up in place of God." (E Supremi Apostolatus, 4 October 1903)

Pope Paul VI - a blasphemous parody of the HYMN TO CHRIST THE KING OF THE AGES (Angelus, 7 February 1971):

"Honour to Man!

Honour to his thought; honour to his scientific knowledge;

Honour to his technical skill; honour to his work;

Honour to human endurance;

Honour to that combination of scientific activity and organisation by which man, unlike the other animals, can invest his spirit and his manual dexterity with instruments of conquest;

HONOUR TO MAN, KING OF THE EARTH, AND TODAY PRINCE OF THE HEAVENS! Honour to our living being, in which is reflected the image of God and which, in its triumph over matter, obeys the biblical command: increase and rule."

     It was on a similar occasion that Pope Paul VI said:

     "Man is both giant and divine, in his origin and his destiny. Honour, therefore, to man, honour to his dignity, to his spirit, to his life." (13 July 1969)

THE CORRECT NOTION OF THE AUTHORITY OF THE SUCCESSOR OF SAINT PETER

     Six years later, our Father returned to this capital question, “concerning the Pope”, this time considering it from a theoretical point of view, in keeping with the most exact Catholic doctrine. «Oportet hæreses esse», said Saint Paul: heresies are necessary to try the Church. «The one which is agitating us today will undoubtedly have the providential consequence of once again teaching Catholics the correct notion of the divine authority of the Vicar of Christ and of the Episcopal Body in all its fullness but also in its true nature and its precise definition. The Pope holds the place of God, a stupefying thought, but he is not a god.» (CRC, November 1970, Concerning the Pope)

     And for support our Father calls on Father Feuillet, «one of the most illustrious exegetes of what I like to call our French School of exegesis», in an article entitled: “The prerogatives of Peter and his successors according to the Gospels”. It is of a wonderful clarity:

     «What makes the text of Matthew 16.13-23 [“You are Peter, and upon this Rock I will build my Church…”] particularly valuable, is that it consists of two violently antithetical scenes: Simon Peter the Rock of the Church (13-20) and Simon Peter becoming a rock of scandal, that is to say an obstacle on the path that leads to God (21-23).» Shaken by the announcement his Master had just made concerning His approaching Passion, the apostle Peter stood in the way: «Heaven preserve you, Lord! This must not happen to you!» He drew upon himself this sharp reply: «Get behind me, Satan!»

     «This passage puts paid to the common error that confuses infallibility with impeccability. Peter, inasmuch as he is enlightened by the Father and professes his faith in Christ the Son of God, is the Rock upon which Christ wished to build His Church. But the same Peter, once divine assistance is taken out of the equation, is no more than a poor man like the rest; far from being a Rock, he can even be a stumbling block and entertain satanic thoughts: “Get behind me, Satan. You are a scandal to me (that is to say a snare and an obstacle), because the way you think is not God’s way, but man’s.”» In other words, just because he has received the name “Peter” (or is the successor of Peter), this does not mean that his thoughts, his words, his acts are inspired by God. They can come from man and therefore be subject to Satan’s control. All that matters is in whom he will place his trust and his faith: in God or in Man?

     As for the indefectibility promised him by Our Lord: «But I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail, and once your have recovered, you in your turn must strengthen your brothers» (Lk 22.32), it is affirmed, explains our Father, «as a continual but conditional and limited miracle of grace prevailing over human weakness. The successor of Peter is not assured of always walking straight “according to the truth of the Gospel”. Should he become an object of scandal, the very existence of the Church may be put in jeopardy, or at least the unity of the faith and the salvation of souls».

85 posted on 01/30/2003 2:29:01 PM PST by Francisco
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To: NYer
As for tradition: Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Jesus Christ is the tradition you should follow if you want to see life this side of Heaven.

86 posted on 02/15/2003 9:31:50 PM PST by God is good
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