East and West

Sapphires | Jonathan Cahn

[WhatNot]

It is written in Psalms, "As far as the east is from the west, so far has He removed our transgressions from us." This is amazing, because it was written before it was shown that the earth is round. It says, "as far as the east is from west," not "as far as the north is from the south." Because the earth is a sphere that spins on its axis, with an end at the North pole and an end at the South Pole, you can measure the distance between north and south. So if scripture had said, "He removed our transgressions from us as far as north from south," we could have measured the distance - a few thousand miles.

But Scripture said, "as far as the east is from the west." If you go east or west around the world, you just keep going, without end. The directions of east and west are infinte - and so is the separation God puts between us and our transgressions. So don't be hindered by sin, or by past failures. Rejoice, you are totally free. He has removed your sins, your past failures from you - as far as the east is from the west.

TODAY'S MISSION
Make an envelope marked "Removed, as far as East from West" Write on a slip of paper the one thing that is nagging at you today, a past sin or bad habit you need to get away from. Place it in the envelope and send it on its way, to the trash.

[SoothingDave]

Hey, isn't that much more simple and straightforward than the wild convolutions most people wander down?

Then again, angelo doesn't go on the attack like some people do. Using an unremarkable remark that God can access any moment in time, and use it as a jumping off point to display one's ignorance and hostility.

Oh well.

SD

[CCWoody]

Meaning not that the expiation is to God (though it is), but that the act is always present to God. ~ SoothingDave

No, SD, the act is not always present to God. The grace of God was communicated to the saints before time began. That is the very Word of God. The names of the saints, all of them, were written in the Book of Life before the foundation of the world.

The memorial of that one time act is before the Father. And that is an entirely different thing.


• "Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David,...." And I looked, and behold, in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as though it had been slain,... ~ Revelation 5:5-6

I do not know this expiation that you preach. It is foreign to the faith of the saints. It is quite obvious that your Eucharist has blinded you to the truth.

Woody.

But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever sat down at the right hand of God, from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool. For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

Good grief, why would the act need to be present when my perfection was completed in the past?

[CCWoody]

Using an unremarkable remark that God can access any moment in time, and use it as a jumping off point to display one's ignorance and hostility. ~ SD

Exactly, and you really should repent of your ignorance and hostility. After all, the Bible says plainly and exactly that the saving grace of God was given before time began, not accessed like some kind data file in a Twillight Zone eposide.

Woody.

[WhatNot]

You really are close to where a somber part of space history took place, hopefully if ever happens to you again, it will be a more upbeat chapter in the history books...

[malakhi]

I believe "habitual sin" springs forth from out of our fallen nature, as does all other sin.

I can agree with this, although I would use the terminology yetzer hara, meaning the evil or selfish impulse, rather than "fallen nature".

but when we come to Christ, He promises to help us through whatever problems we have today, because of our past decisions.

Again I can agree, with the modification that I believe it is God the Father who does this, rather than the second person of a trinitarian Godhead.

[SoothingDave]

Exactly, and you really should repent of your ignorance and hostility.

You are the one showing the hostility, buddy. This is typically un-Christian, but par-for-the-course for a Calvinist.

You keep jumping onto tangential issues, and seem determined to bring the Eucharist into things, when no one except you has mentioned it. You display your ignorance of the idea in the most offensive terms, and then accuse me of "hostility."

another fine witness for Calvinism. Good job. You have spread the Gospel good, my son. Many are drawn by your charm.

I apologize for setting you off by suggesting that God is the master of time. I won't bring it up again, as it is so upsetting to you.

SD

[AlguyA]

Two things. First,

No, SD, the act is not always present to God.

Are you truly arguing God is not, "I AM?" It would seem to me every moment of history must always be present to God, otherwise he would not be trascendent, would be limited, and would, thus, not be "I AM." To assert otherwise would be to be truly blasphemous.

Second,

before time began

Do you not see the paradox in this Scripture? To use the words "before" and "began" perforce connote placement in time, yet the phrase "before time began" argues just the opposite. I believe this Scripture is designed to instill in us, to lead us, to fear of the Lord, to an appreciation of the wonder and awe of God's majesty. It prompts us to consider his transcedence. Similarly, it would be just as correct to say God gave his saving grace to the saints after time ended and that he is giving us that saving grace now.

And while I may lose angelo at this point, I believe this is conncected to why Jesus(or, the Messiah) would be named Emmanuel, God IS with us. Not that God would be with us for thirty-some years. But that God would be with us always and that God always was with us. Thus, every moment must always be present to God.

[Salvation]

**May God's Holy Spirit bring Fullness, Wellness, Wholeness & Comfort to all the family & friends left behind.**

Amen!

This post of your deserves its own thread!

[CCWoody]

I don't know why you guys are so insistent upon heading down this rabbit hole, ignoring the scriptures I have posted along the way, but here we go, one more time: The act is not always present to God. The Memorial is!


• "Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah,..."
  6And I looked, and behold, in the midst of the throne... stood a Lamb as though it had been slain....

Do you not see the paradox in this Scripture? ~ AlguyA

Aparently, the only people who see a paradox in the Scriptures are those who deny the Biblical doctrines of election and reprobation.

To use the words "before" and "began" perforce connote placement in time, yet the phrase "before time began" argues just the opposite. I believe this Scripture is designed to instill in us, to lead us, to fear of the Lord, to an appreciation of the wonder and awe of God's majesty. It prompts us to consider his transcedence. Similarly, it would be just as correct to say God gave his saving grace to the saints after time ended and that he is giving us that saving grace now. ~ AlguyA

Clearly, the scriptures are teaching us that before the foundation of the world, before chronos, which is the greek word you people are chocking upon, before the first Word of creation was ever uttered, the Lord Himself had already saved all who would ever be saved out of the world He was creating. It is only at a specific point in the history of this age that the Lord revealed that already accomplished salvation to the vessles of His mercy.

Why are you people chocking on this? Well, it takes you completely out of the picture and leaves you absolutely naked with no room to glory in the presence of the Almighty.

To assert that the act of salvation is always present is to flatly declare that the murder of Christ is always present. It is to place the Savior into an eternal chamber of horrors where every moment He is sacrificed. Now, the Roman Catholics have their own version if this horror, but it is nowhere to be found in the Scriptures.

I do not know this atonement that you preach. My Lord is sitting right now. I have already been perfected forever.

Woody.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will

[SoothingDave]

The act is not always present to God. The Memorial is!

What other moments in time are not present to God? Super Bowl XXX? The OJ Trial?

Is God is, or is God not outside of time?

I know this is tough, but you might try answering some questions, instead of doing the usual spew.

Do you believe Jesus died on the cross, about 2000 years ago, in history, in time, on this planet earth?

Clearly, the scriptures are teaching us that before the foundation of the world, before chronos, which is the greek word you people are chocking upon, before the first Word of creation was ever uttered, the Lord Himself had already saved all who would ever be saved out of the world He was creating. It is only at a specific point in the history of this age that the Lord revealed that already accomplished salvation to the vessles of His mercy.

So God "revealed" this salvation at a specifc point. Did Jesus actually die and resurrect at this specific point in time? Or did He did before time and only "reveal" it 2000 years ago?

Did Jesus have to die for our sins? If you were saved before the world was even created, then Jesus must have been unnecessary, huh? Does the Cross have any power?

I do not know this atonement that you preach.

I know you don't. Frankly, I don't know what effect JEsus's death had on you whatsoever. You were saved by God's pre-destination, not by His Sacrifice.

My Lord is sitting right now. I have already been perfected forever.

If this is the perfect you, then I don't wish to ever meet the imperfect you.

SD

[CCWoody]

What other moments in time are not present to God? Super Bowl XXX? The OJ Trial? ~ SD

Seeing that you are in a pit and you keep digging, does my voice echo when I talk down into your pit? Perhaps that is why you continue to cling to your new age gooble-de-gook instead of the plain and printed Word of God:


• Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord,... who has saved us... according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began, but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ,...

Do you hate the Truth of the Bible so much that you prefer new age insanity?

Frankly, I don't know what effect Jesus' death had on you whatsoever. You were saved by God's pre-destination, not by His Sacrifice. ~ SoothingDave

No, you don't understand at all. I was predestined for salvation by the atonement He made. Now, I know you enjoy your works based religion, but you should know this Biblical fact that salvation was actually given to the saints before the foundation of the world:


• Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord,... who has saved us... according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began, but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ,...

If this is the perfect you, then I don't wish to ever meet the imperfect you. ~ SoothingDave

Do you deny this Biblical verse as well:


• For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

Oh, well, in either event, I am to God the fragrance of Christ among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing. To the one I am the aroma of death leading to death, and to the other the aroma of life leading to life. I can't help it if you enjoy new age "stuff" over the Word of God.

Woody.

Yet further, a period is mentioned and added—"before the world began." Those last words seem to me forever to lay prostrate all idea of anything of our own merits in saving ourselves, because it is here witnessed that God gave us grace "before the world began." Where were you then? What hand had you in it "before the world began?" Why, fly back if you can in imagination to the ancient years when those venerable mountains, that elder birth of nature, were not yet formed; when world, and sun, and moon, and stars, were all in embryo in God's great mind; when the unnavigated sea of space had never been disturbed by wings of seraph, and the awful silence of eternity had never been startled by the song of cherubim—when God dwelt alone. If you can conceive that time before all time, that vast eternity—it was then He gave us grace in Christ Jesus. What, O soul, hadst thou to do with that? Where were thy merits then? Where wast thou thyself? O thou small dust of the balance, thou insect of a day, where wert thou? See how Jehovah reigned, dispensing mercy as He would, and ordaining unto eternal life without taking counsel of man or angel, for neither man or angel then had an existence. That it might be all of grace He gave us grace before the world began.

[SoothingDave]

I see you would rather marvel at your own superiority than offer me some help. I asked you several rather simple questions and you answered none of them.

You don't wish me to understand what you think. That is fine. You are dismissed. Good job.

SD

[CCWoody]

Sorry, but you are stuck in a box of your own design. I can't help you get out. I have quoted you the plain and simple word of God. You reject it. You reject Biblical election and reprobation. You reject Biblical predestination. Until you sober up, you will remain stuck in your mess.

Woody.

I am to God the fragrance of Christ among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing. To the one I am the aroma of death leading to death, and to the other the aroma of life leading to life.

[SoothingDave]

Sorry, but you are stuck in a box of your own design. I can't help you get out. I have quoted you the plain and simple word of God. You reject it. You reject Biblical election and reprobation. You reject Biblical predestination. Until you sober up, you will remain stuck in your mess.

Look, I asked you questions. What is preventing you from answering them, except your fascination with the flowering wonderfulness of your own fecal matter?

Calvin and your god are proud of your work. Hooray! You have demonstrated your greatness over another. Hooray!

If you truly possess the truth, then why don't you try to share it, instead of lording it over others?

SD

[CCWoody]

Look, I asked you questions. What is preventing you from answering them, except your fascination with the flowering wonderfulness of your own fecal matter? ~ SoothingDave

Sorry, I'm not into rabbit chases. I have stuck to the central issue. And I have quoted the relavent scriptures, which I now note you are calling fecal matter. Go figure!

On your side, you have engaged in vain chases down the donneybrook trail of new age cultism. Go figure!

Lest you forget, here is the relavent scripture one more time. Please note that the past tense verb is used to plainly declare that salvation was actually given to the saints before time began. Please note that salvation is spoken of as past tense. Please try and stick to the scripture, which is my argument against your heresy.


• Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord,... who has saved us... according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began, but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ,...

Please note also that the Scriptures do also flatly call your belief a lie from the pit of Hell. The act of atonement is not present at all time to the Father, the Memorial is:


• "Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah,..."
  And I looked, and behold, in the midst of the throne... stood a Lamb as though it had been slain....

You are free to accept these scriptures as true or you are free to reject them. I'm not concerned either way as I am to God the fragrance of Christ among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing. To the one I am the aroma of death leading to death, and to the other the aroma of life leading to life.

Woody.

[SoothingDave]

And I have quoted the relavent scriptures, which I now note you are calling fecal matter.

No, my friend, it is your own self-estimation which is the fecal matter. It is quite typical of the Calvinist, however, to interpret criticism of themselves with criticism of Scripture. Quite delusional as well.

Now, if you have any sense of dignity whatsoever, and do nto just wish to use me as a foil in your self-conrgatulatory knob-polishing, then try to pretend I am a real person, who is struggling to understand what it is you are claiming.

Can you do that?

Now, i asked, three or 4 times, what the problem was in considering Jesus' Crucifixion as an act that occurred in time, and that God can consider as "present."

You do not answer. I asked if you believed God was outside of time. You do not answer.

I ask if God can access any moment in time. You do not answer.

I ask if Jesus' Sacrifice was necessary. You do not answer.

Remember, all I did was say that Jesus' sacrifice is present to God. As all moments in time are present to God.

You have noting to answer, except repeating the same thigns over and over. Yes, I get your little pre-destination gimick. It's cute.

Now, answer the questions.Was Jesus Crucified in time, at a particular point in history? Were people saved because of theh actions of Jesus?

Does God use this Sacrifice to save people?

Why can't God access this one moment in time?

SD

[CCWoody]

No, my friend, it is your own self-estimation which is the fecal matter. ~ SoothingDave

What exact part of my post do you refer? Please cite it and then we can continue.

Woody.

[SoothingDave]

I am to God the fragrance of Christ among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing. To the one I am the aroma of death leading to death, and to the other the aroma of life leading to life.

That is nothign except bragging, and pumping yourself up. It is obnoxious. It is smug. It is Calvinism on parade.

You would do well to learn some humility.

(And spare me the "I'm not bragging, it's just God working through me, who am unworthy" crap as well.)

It's annoying and a huge turnoff to everyone.

As for "continuing," you could answer any of the many questions I have left for you. The ones you never answered while going on and on about how wonderful you are.

Start with "do you think God is outside of time?"

Then try, "Did Jesus die at a particular place and time in history, in time?"

If you care to answer these, then we can begin to have a conversation.

SD

[CCWoody]

I am to God the fragrance of Christ among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing. To the one I am the aroma of death leading to death, and to the other the aroma of life leading to life. ~ CCWoody quoting Scripture

That is nothign except bragging, and pumping yourself up. It is obnoxious. It is smug. It is Calvinism on parade. ~ SoothingDave hating scripture

Gee, Dave, I wanted you to cite it directly so that there is no misunderstand later that what you have called bragging, obnoxious, smug, fecal matter, and Calvinism is a direct quote from Scripture. So, as I previously said, you are calling direct cites from the Scriptures, well, $H!T, to use a more vulgar and base word.

Perhaps that ought to sober you up that you are speaking blasphemies directly against the Word of God, but I imagine that you will insist upon continuing to wallow in your new age speculations.

It's annoying and a huge turnoff to everyone. ~ SoothingDave

Well, Dave, if the Lord says that:


• I am to God the fragrance of Christ among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing. To the one I am the aroma of death leading to death, and to the other the aroma of life leading to life.

Then who am I to argue, or even be concerned that you are annoyed. Tsk, tsk, I don't even worry that I refer to myself as a saint and I annoy you Papists who think that such declarations are from men.

Nevertheless, getting back to your rabbit chases...

Start with "do you think God is outside of time?" ~ SoothingDave

Irrelevant! The only issue at hand: Is the act of expitation present always to God? And I have resoundingly and with the fire of Scripture soundly put this new age BS to rest. The Memorial is before the Father, not the act. Please wash your mind of the new age BS in your head and wrap your mind upon this verse:


• "Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah,..."
  And I looked, and behold, in the midst of the throne... stood a Lamb as though it had been slain....

Now, I understand that your theology needs to teach that the act of expitiation is ongoing. Nevertheless, the scriptues soundly slap you in the face and declare that all the saints were saved before time began. Your argument is not with me, it is with the scriptures, that you have called fecal matter. Here is the relevant verse, again....:


• Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord,... who has saved us... according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began, but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ,...

Now, you may hate the doctrine of election and you may hate the doctrine of reprobation and you may hate truth of the scriptures, but that is not my concern. I am merely happy to be the fragrance of Christ for you. It remains to be seen if to you I am the aroma of death leading to death, and to the other the aroma of life leading to life.

Please sober up to the reality that most of the things you have been taught by the Papists are wrong. Your "Church" is a spiritual Bablyon and you need to leave her for the high Truth of Scriptures.

Then try, "Did Jesus die at a particular place and time in history, in time?" ~ SoothingDave

• Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord,... who has saved us... according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began, but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ,...

I thought that this scripture was remarkably clear. Evidently not. The Salvation of the Lord has been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ. Nevertheless, we were saved before time began. Do you believe this?

Woody.

The well-taught man in Christ Jesus stands firm where the uninstructed infant would fall or be carried away. "Be not carried about with every wind of doctrine," says the apostle, and those are least likely to be so carried are those who are well established in the truth as it is in the Holy Writ. ~ Spurgeon

[SoothingDave]

I see you have no desire to answer my questions. Or is it no ability?

Nevertheless, your work is done here. Carry on in your smug little world.

SD